LGBT- Transgender

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basso1

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A number of LGBT people are trying to use Galatians 3:28 to prove that transgenderism and homosexuality is good. How do we set them straight?
 
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basso1 said:
A number of LGBT people are trying to use Galatians 3:28 to prove that transgenderism and homosexuality is good. How do we set them straight?
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“Setting someone straight” sounds like a rather aggressive approach. Why not express your disagreement politely instead?

This verse doesn’t prove that any given sexual orientation is “good” or “bad.” It just tells us that Christ loves us no matter who we are.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female – for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.
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Christ loves LGBTQ people as much as straight people. This isn’t a controversial statement.
 
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That verse means we are all equal and beloved before the Lord.

It does not give lisence to particular behaviors.

We already know God loves us, without any effort on our part, and that salvation is a free gift offered to us all.

And we receive that gift by repentance, and following Him.
 
Nowadays you got the gay community, the hunting community, I even saw a commercial that called people with diabetes the diabetes community. These kinds of likenesses don’t create the division that divide human life into classes. Hobbies, sexual preferences and diseases aren’t imbued with the status inherent in nations, races, and social classes.
 
Go ahead and tell them the Catholic beliefs. If they are going to quote the Bible tell them the Church wrote the Bible and has the final say in interpreting it. I don’t care if they aren’t Catholic. Once they start quoting the Bible they have to answer to the Church which wrote and has the only authority to interpret it. So they aren’t convinced? Who cares you did your part in spreading the Faith
 
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Zach said:
Once they start quoting the Bible they have to answer to the Church which wrote and has the only authority to interpret it.
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They don’t have to do any such thing. And chances are, they won’t. I would suggest not arguing over these matters. A friendly conversation sharing one’s views…there is nothing wrong with that. An exchange of information between two people who believe two different things. No need to fight about anything or be aggressive.
 
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There seems to be a belief that all transgender people are interested in changing their genitalia. This is far from the case, many are satisfied having a gender neutral or social standing different to their genitalia.

The Church’s main concern will always remain reproduction. If we are concerned about biblical social standards, especially for women, its standards are often atrocious and often directly opposed to Catholic teaching. These were human
Societies, generally setup to enforce male dominance and minimal self determination of women. They often promoted the idea of women being unclean or incapable of good decision making. God may have given us genitalia meant to be shared by a loving couple, but I sincerely doubt the previous was.

So that takes us to why are we so wrapped up in the social presentation of an individual? Their reproductive capacity need not affect their intelligence, desires, or understand of themselves. If their reproductive capacity remains and their relationship is monogamous with a person they can have child with, where is the real issue with that? Perhaps is it that it simply makes us uncomfortable? Or maybe we’ve entwined so much of what is expected of and permissible of a person in it?
 
PJH_74 said:
So that takes us to why are we so wrapped up in the social presentation of an individual?
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Who is this “we” you are referring to?

In the vast majority of cases, nobody gives a hoot what other people are doing in the privacy of their own homes or minds.

However, it becomes everybody’s business when the activists try to force changes to language and culture and make new crimes out of things that were never crimes before (like for instance “misgendering”), while at the same time not defining terms or enticing kids to behaviors that aren’t on their best interest.

At that point, thinking people had better enter the conversation.
 
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I think trying to convince them with arguments is not going to do vert much good. Of course it depends on their mindset and all. If they are in your life I would just try to get to know them and love them. I wouldn’t force my opinion on them if they don’t ask or bring it up because that could be off putting and really end the relationship. Just meet them where they are at and show them that you really care about them
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
However, it becomes everybody’s business when the activists try to force changes to language and culture and make things crimes out of things that were never crimes before (like for instance “misgendering”), while at the same time not defining terms or enticing kids to behaviors that aren’t on their best interest.

At that point, thinking people had better enter the conversation.
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You know, it was not all that long ago that being Catholic made you , non-Christian, expendable, traitor, devil worshiper, etc. Protestants in this country grumbled and resisted the social change that legitimized the Catholic church in places like the USA and British Empire.

While we as Christians feel otherwise, one could argue that imparting the creation of and rule over the Universe to a single unseen deity as delusional. That one should be able to choose the role of and secondary sexual features of what is nominally the opposite gender is at least a tangible thing.

No one is asking you to accept transgender people real, just the accommodation of them. Considering the deference finally shown Catholics and that of religious people in general, what is the social cost here? That you consider it a social right and given that your faith is viewed as legitimate does not change that this remains a social contract. What is the harm in participating socially with others who might have a corresponding unbelief in the veracity of your beliefs?
 
PJH_74 said:
what is the social cost here?
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The problem is that we know so little about transgenderism, what causes it and what might be able to cure it.

The problem is that at least three separate phenomenon are being touted as transgender. You have the persons who from their preschool years feel wrong in their bodies (which is not always cut and dried and can only be determined in hindsight). You have a second group of kids who feel perfectly fine in their bodies until some event or trauma intervened and then they don’t wanna be their sex anymore. Then you have the third group, which are essentially wanna-be’s who are in it for the attention.

The problem is a group of activists who somehow have gained ascendancy over everybody else and actually have the power to punish all nay-sayers and questioners.

Sounds like a serious amount of social cost to me.
 
PJH_74 said:
You know, it was not all that long ago that being Catholic made you , non-Christian, expendable, traitor, devil worshiper, etc.
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The fundamental flaw in this argument is that I actually can stop practicing Catholicism any time I choose.
But the trans-activists claim is that gender is immutable and therefore, whatever the person claims to be is the rock solid truth of the matter (regardless of age or any other consideration) and must be taken seriously no matter what.
Because it’s unchnageable.
Is their claim.
 
JMMJ said:
No need to fight about anything or be aggressive.
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I agree but If they quote the Bible out of context we can and should point out their error. Plus there is nothing wrong or aggressive in practicing the spiritual works of mercy. To the contrary it is an act of charity and is required of us as Catholics.
 
Well I would never argue over it. If I can’t share my beliefs with someone in a way that is going to lead them to walk away when the conversation is over, feeling love, then I don’t share. It would be counterproductive.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
The problem is that at least three separate phenomenon are being touted as transgender. You have the persons who from their preschool years feel wrong in their bodies (which is not always cut and dried and can only be determined in hindsight). You have a second group of kids who feel perfectly fine in their bodies until some event or trauma intervened and then they don’t wanna be their sex anymore. Then you have the third group, which are essentially wanna-be’s who are in it for the attention.
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I’m cautious too with very young children. I can see one argument that addressing this early avoids some substantial changes in puberty, especially due to testosterone, that are very hard to address later. Basically hormone blockers, especially on those wanting to be female, are key. I do however get concerned about very permanent changes before 18.

Why people identify as one gender or another is much more complicated than some sort of trauma. There are more than a few identical twins out there for one twin identifies as transgender, it’s hard to get a more realistic common genetic and environmental situation. You can also not assume there is some sort of bandwagon people are jumping on or that there is something unusual with people coming out later. The stakes are so high socially and economically that some repress or avoid these feelings. This is not some fad change in society, transgender people are not being treated as mentally ill anymore and much less of a freak show. This is the change you are seeing.
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
The fundamental flaw in this argument is that I actually can stop practicing Catholicism any time I choose. But the trans-activists claim is that gender is immutable and therefore, whatever the person claims to be is the rock solid truth of the matter (regardless of age or any other consideration) and must be taken seriously no matter what. Because it’s unchangeable. Is their claim.
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It’s difficult to declare a monolithic view on any movement. Within the transgender community there are concepts of genre fluidity, a genderness, simply gender non-conforming, etc. if anything those opposed to transgender ideas are almost by default committed to the idea of immutability of gender; that it simply is the result of the reproductive organs one possess.

As for the claim that one can drop Catholicism at anytime, then how could one declare Catholic doctrine as the immutable truth when one can toss it aside so easily? It’s hard not to see a reciprocal flaw in that argument.
 
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PJH_74 said:
You can also not assume there is some sort of bandwagon people are jumping on
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…except that I’ve seen it. And I’ve seen people de-transition (who had sworn on like 10 Bibles they were TOTALLY born in the wrong body, etc).

No. If a kid all of a sudden in their tweens and teens start questioning their gender, then something has gone very wrong in their life or in their thinking. Troubled, unhappy teens often make up a narrative for themselves and can be very insistent on this narrative.

I used to be very much in the “born that way” line of thinking, but then I saw too many opposing scenarios , too many things that didn’t fit the popular opinion. And then I saw what happens to people who question the popular opinion.

There’s way more to this transgender push than what the activists are claiming.
 
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