Liam Neesen considering Islam

[Sarcelle]

Just because devout Muslims do not talk about this does not mean one can leave Islam (whether here or in the Middle East) and not pay some sort of price.

If one is a DEVOUT Muslim, one knows that the penalty for leaving Islam is DEATH.

Read the Quran and from beginning to end with a discerning mind AND the major HAdiths (commentaries) on the Quran and Mohammed. It is only fair, anyway, that Neeson get thoroughly acquainted with the religion he has seriously considered joining for a while.

The ban against leaving Islam and its penalty buy death is there. Again, just because Muslims do no mention that does not mean they do not know about it and would not consider it----even for Neeson. They certainly have no problem considering and enacting it for ordinary people----even in the United States.

I would seriously encourage the man to study and get truly educated on the religion he is seriously thinking of joining.

I agree.

We are not discussing what individual Muslims do. We are discussing the penalty for leaving Islam. People will deny it all they can, but the penalty for leaving Islam is death. No two ways about it. Whether or not it is carried out in the West does not negate the fact that an apostate can be killed according to the tenets of Islam.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

There are 3.5 million Muslims in the US alone.
Excluding Turkey, there are 44 million Muslims in Europe.

Muslims in the West do not kill each other for leaving the faith. Sure, you can probably find a few isolated incidents every year, but looking at the numbers, it just isn’t a risk that you can reasonably be concerned about.

To say that converting to Islam in the US or Europe is dangerous because they may kill you if you leave is really just fear mongering and religious bigotry.

So a few dead people in the West and MANY dead in the Middle East is just an irrelevant fact and not really relevant to the discussion?

Really?

How utilitarian of you.

 

[7_Sorrows]

And if shariah law would ever be implemented in the united states, it would become clear to you very quickly.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I agree.

We are not discussing what individual Muslims do. We are discussing the penalty for leaving Islam. People will deny it all they can, but the penalty for leaving Islam is death. No two ways about it. Whether or not it is carried out in the West does not negate the fact that an apostate can be killed according to the tenets of Islam.

Indeed.

I guess many would say------well, Liam will not have have to go through that because he is of the West and VERY FAMOUS-----Muslims would not DARE risk trying to kill such a “famous” apostate------------

But who knows? Nobody knows how powerful and influential Islam will get in the future and in the West as a whole----look at what it has accomplished so far in Europe. They basically dictate certain codes of conduct over there—look at England, for example.

Again---------------

He needs to really study and think about the religion he is thinking of joining.

 

[estesbob]

I have many Muslim clients and friends.The idea that Neesans life would be at risk if he converted and then left Islam is specious

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I have many Muslim clients and friends.The idea that Neesans life would be at risk if he converted and then left Islam is specious

How about this------
If he converts, he would be outside of the Church and the Truth and he COULD be in danger of his immortal soul?

How about-----he would be converting to a religion that is still in some ways in 7th century? And a religion that in some ways has been more devastating to the human race than Christianity (allegedly) and other religions combined?

How about those reasons?

Aming others.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

It nevers fails around here.

A prominent actor who is Catholic debates leaving the faith for Islam, and the usual suspects leap into the topic, not discuss the horror of losing ones soul by abandoning the Catholic faith, but in an effort to quell mischaracterizations of Islam…

Yeah, shame on them. They should be more like the other posters who completely ignored “losing ones soul by abandoning the Catholic faith” in order to mischaracterize Islam.

 

[SuperLuigi]

How many Muslims do you know I know many and they are nothing like the off-the-wall characterization you make.

I personally don’t know of any Muslims who openly support sharia law.

But if sharia law were ever implemented here, the Muslim men wouldn’t have much to lose, so they naturally have less incentive to go out of their way to fight it.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Yeah, shame on them. They should be more like the other posters who completely ignored “losing ones soul by abandoning the Catholic faith” in order to mischaracterize Islam.

Please. You can tell which usual suspects will swoop in like the PC police and gloss over leaving the Church and potentially spending eternity in Hell in an effort to correct what they think are mischaracterizations. The latter can be debated. It is their opinion Islam is being mischaracterized.

It is fact that leaving the Church is a great danger to one’s immortal soul. Some people were probably to upset and shocked about that possibility to worry about possibly wrong, but more trivial inaccuracies about Islam. The latter doesn’t even register a blip in the radar of seriously grievous matters when considering damnation.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Please. You can tell which usual suspects will swoop in like the PC police and gloss over leaving the Church and potentially spending eternity in Hell in an effort to correct what they think are mischaracterizations. The latter can be debated. It is their opinion Islam is being mischaracterized.

It is fact that leaving the Church is a great danger to one’s immortal soul. Some people were probably to upset and shocked about that possibility to worry about possibly wrong, but more trivial inaccuracies about Islam. The latter doesn’t even register a blip in the radar of seriously grievous matters when considering damnation.

Please cite for me any of the posts on the first page that mentions anything at all about the danger he is putting his soul in by leaving the faith. Good luck finding one. I looked. Not one. In fact, the only objection to him leaving the faith seems to be because he is considering converting to Islam and he may be killed if he later decides to leave it. Wow, deep Catholic theology right there. Yep. Bunch of Catholic posters whose main concern about this is not him leaving the faith because he will be putting his soul in danger, but because he may be killed if he decides to leave Islam. I guess that’s why you decided to try and “call out” the posters who objected to what they considered was a mischaracterization of Islam. What’s even better, you tried to call out an atheist who, being an atheist, shouldn’t be expected to even care about what the Church teaches in regards to those who leave the faith, let alone use this as a basis for a discussion on this topic.

But hey, you keep scaring off the “PC police” so this conversation can get back to what really matters, namely an objection to what faith he is converting to instead of your point above.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Please, do tell me which faiths I’d be okay with him fleeing to? I didn’t mention the backwards nature of Islam or the backwards nature of any religion in my post. None of them are the truth, and they all should be abandoned.

I don’t care where he goes; he is wrong to leave. He can follow his conscience, but they can often lead us to eternal damnation.

But feel free to read whatever you wish to into my post, and continue to gloss over more serious issues. It’s the internet, none of know each other, and no one really cares anyway.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I have many Muslim clients and friends.The idea that Neesans life would be at risk if he converted and then left Islam is specious

It just takes one. And being a public figure Neesan would attract the attention of crazies a lot more readily than your average citizen who apostatizes. Just ask Salman Rushdie if he ever felt threatened for apostatizing.

 

[ringil]

And if shariah law would ever be implemented in the united states, it would become clear to you very quickly.

Why even make this post.

This is mere paranoid- extreme paranoid- musing and.

You essentially write "Well, Islam is VERY bad, whatever evil they haven’t done yet may be done in the future so we should be concerned about this possible- or likely- future.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=BlueEyedLady;12047526]There are 3.5 million Muslims in the US alone.
Excluding Turkey, there are 44 million Muslims in Europe.

Those numbers will increase.

Muslims in the West do not kill each other for leaving the faith.

abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=8303567

nydailynews.com/news/justice-story/justice-story-honor-killing-article-1.1510125

Sure, you can probably find a few isolated incidents every year, but looking at the numbers, it just isn’t a risk that you can reasonably be concerned about.

Tell that to the female converts facing persecution.

To say that converting to Islam in the US or Europe is dangerous because they may kill you if you leave is really just fear mongering and religious bigotry.

Leave it to left-leaning atheists to come charging out of the gate looking for an excuse to defend Islam and slap American liberal cliche words like “bigotry” and “fear mongering” on a religious forum.

Just remember that Muslims overwhelmingly oppose so-called gay “marriage,” and by American left-wing logic supporting gay rights is islamophobic and racist.

As far as Europe goes, I can assure you it’s very different atmosphere over there. One probably won’t hear about it from PC mainstream media outlets in the West, but there’s already de facto sharia law in many EU cities, and sometimes the media and government will run interference for Islam in order to not look “racist”.

This mentality has lead to slaps on the wrists for criminals in Europe.

 

[Sarcelle]

I have many Muslim clients and friends.The idea that Neesans life would be at risk if he converted and then left Islam is specious

Try telling that to the people who have been condemned to death because of apostasy. They do exist.

What is in discussion is not what individual Muslims say or do. The discussion is what does Islam as a faith teach. Sure there are Muslims who believe that death for apostasy is wrong. However the next question is, do their belief line up to what Islam teaches?

If we define a faith by how individuals act, than we can say that the Catholic Church approves of artificial contraception because there are Catholics that contracept.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Why even make this post.

Maybe because some groups are trying to make sharia law the governing structure in the USA and that it at least indirectly has support and sympathy from the American left?

This is mere paranoid- extreme paranoid- musing and.

I’m sure someone said the same thing about Hitler, Mussolini and Imperial Japan.

But if one is interested in paranoid, that would be man-made climate change and the idea that the GOP wants to enslave Blacks.

You essentially write "Well, Islam is VERY bad, whatever evil they haven’t done yet may be done in the future so we should be concerned about this possible- or likely- future.

Responsible citizens in free countries would be wise to recognize threats to freedom and guard against them.

Or, simply, they will lose it.

Don’t assume that civilization follows this neat little linear path and that post-modern liberalism and progressivism is automatic and inevitable because the liberal elite say so or because it’s kind of on Star Trek.

Huge sections of the West and East Asia are dying, mostly from their own suicidal policies.

Islam, along with Russia and China, will be more than happy to fill the gap.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Try telling that to the people who have been condemned to death because of apostasy. They do exist.

I think his point may be along the lines that because Neeson is a man and a famous Caucasian that mainstream Muslims would be more interested in marketing it than condemning what may or may not happen in the future.

Obama is considered by some Muslims to be a Muslim because his father was a Muslim. I guess that’s okay by liberal standards, but conservatives saying the President is a Muslim is not.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Thank you SuperLuigi for defending my post that ringil took issue with.

You did a good job!

 

[DeniseNY]

But if one is interested in paranoid, that would be man-made climate change and the idea that the GOP wants to enslave Blacks.