Liberal Catholic?

[4givemeasinner]

What constitutes a “liberal” Catholic? In regards to this term, I am not referring to the breakaway “church” that uses the term in liberal in their official name (I think it is the “Liberal Catholic Church of America”? I dont know. anyhow i digress)

 

[englishredrose]

I don’t know about for Catholics

but as an anglican I kind of guess that for me I am a liberal anglican in that I am not strict about what I do in church. I like the way the services are but I don’t follow through with all that is taught but I don’t disrespect it either just that I like things simplistic and I understand that some people find following a set of rules is simplistic but for me to know all those rules would challenge my faith because I personally don’t want rules governing my faith of God. So I state to anyone who is interested enough that am liberal anglican. I go to an anglican church because it is my parish church and am comfortable within it’s practice though not thru and thru Anglican because like I say I don’t follow rules and doctrine like a lot do. But I don’t disrepect it either

 

[LoyalViews]

“liberal Catholic” is the oxymoron that many people don’t realise is an oxymoron.

Liberal (small-c) catholics are mostly people who disagree with the Church on it’s most fundamental teachings, in these days, mostly on abortion and contraception, same-sex relationship issues, and other moral evils.

Of course, a liberal Catholic could also mean someone who is economically liberal, which there’s nothing wrong with It’s economics.

But, most times a liberal Catholic means someone who disagrees with Holy Mother Church, and can be termed “progressive catholic” or “cafeteria Catholic”. We need to pray for them to return to the fullness of the faith.

 

[fnr]

As a liberal Catholic, I can speak to this is a few ways.

First, I believe that our Church is a pilgrim church that is constantly increasing our understanding of our faith. We have Tradition that comes to us from our long history and as Vatican II’s Dei Verbum states, tradition grows as we prayerfully consider our experiences and learning in consultation with the bishops and theologians.

Second, I believe that two truths cannot contradict one another, even of on first appearance they seem to do so. As such, I view the Church as the repository of God’s truth, but also feel that the scientific method is a reliable way to discover truths about our universe and bodies. The reconciliation of these two types of truth can be a sometimes painful process and cause us to have to give up our assumptions about how we would like the world to be. That pain flows both ways, if we are honest all around.

Thirdly, I believe that being a citizen of the United States, I believe that the authority of our government is bound by the Constitution. As such, that which is moral or immoral according to my beliefs may not be suitable for government action to promote or suppress.

Fourth, I believe that the Church has wonderful things to teach about the social and moral domains of life.

That, in a nutshell, is what I consider to be my basis for being both liberal and Catholic.

 

[superamazingman]

Of course, a liberal Catholic could also mean someone who is economically liberal, which there’s nothing wrong with It’s economics.

And even in that case, many times it’s not exactly good either, because in America, liberalism has began to mean a watered down version of socialisim, which is something that the church does not allow.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

No Catholic is more or less Catholic than another. The Church teaches that upon baptism or acceptance into the Church, you are Catholic for life even though you may renounce your faith or be excommunicated.

The words liberal, cafeteria, progressive and other adjectives used before the word Catholic are tools for certain Catholics to isolate themselves from others they find less worthy. It can be a discussion tool, but seldom without emotions, judgment, blame, and other negative factors involved.

Catholics love to play “I’m more Catholic than you” games.

Alan

[BIBLEDRB]matt 23:1-12[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Dale_M]

Here at CAF, a liberal Catholic is someone you disagree with.



More seriously, when “liberal Catholic” is applied to other persons it is usually meant to disparage them. The term itself has little meaning, other than what the user supplies…

If someone refers to themselves as a liberal Catholic, then you would have to ask what they mean. It could mean that they are Catholic but hold to political positions at odds with the Church. Or it could mean that they emphasize the social mission of the Church, as opposed to emphasizing private devotions. Or it could mean something different.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

What constitutes a “liberal” Catholic? In regards to this term, I am not referring to the breakaway “church” that uses the term in liberal in their official name (I think it is the “Liberal Catholic Church of America”? I dont know. anyhow i digress)

A liberal Catholic can mean many things. A liberal can describe someone who:

-Is egalitarian
-Is communist or socialist
-Supports keynesian economics or a welfare state
-Is a classical liberal (capitalist)
-Supports separation of Church and State
-Supports unrestricted freedom of the press
-Is theologically liberal (huge list that could go off of this)
-Supports freedom of religion with no limits
-Supports secular education in schools

In short, the Catholic Church condemns all of these propositions (I suppose you could argue the keynesian one), because the Catholic Church is by nature conservative. The one thing you could say that would make someone an orthodox theological liberal is if that person is not Thomistic. That said, the Catholic Church is the true liberal in that it gives us true freedom not found any where else. It just so happens those values that are truly liberal in that they liberate us from sin and death are considered conservative. This is because much of what we consider “progress” and “modernity” is in actuality backwards.

 

[MaryT777]

What constitutes a “liberal” Catholic? In regards to this term, I am not referring to the breakaway “church” that uses the term in liberal in their official name (I think it is the “Liberal Catholic Church of America”? I dont know. anyhow i digress)

Mary: This is just my opinion but a liberal Catholic to me, from the ones I know, are those Catholics that believe in such things as pro-choice, women priests, etc.
Some might call liberal catholics those that use artificial birth control.

If someone says they are a liberal Catholic I ask what they mean by that so I can better understand what issues they are dealing with.

I am PERSONALLY happy when they say that because they could leave the Catholic Church, but they don’t. although there are m.aniy denominations to choose from that would
embrace their views

Blessings in Christ as we pray to understand better our liberal Catholic Sisters and Brothers among us.

Mary.l

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Here at CAF, a liberal Catholic is someone you disagree with.

Amen. Really that’s often what it boils down to.

More seriously, when “liberal Catholic” is applied to other persons it is usually meant to disparage them. The term itself has little meaning, other than what the user supplies…

You speak truth. :sad_yes:

I think Alan Watts’ description of two types of people, “Prickles and Goo,” roughly correlates.

Alan

 

[Proceedings]

What constitutes a “liberal” Catholic?

A Catholic who has no problem voting for a political candidate who supports and abets the systematic murdering of tens of millions of defenseless innocent babies.

 

[Lancer]

A thought for consideration:

Do we really think as Christians that Our Lord Jesus…at our particular judgment right after death…is going to ask anyone of us…whether or why…we were we a Liberal or a Conservative…Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, et. al, ? I seriously doubt it.

No…IMHO…He is going to ask whether or why…we were a Disobedient or an Obedient…Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, et.al.!

So it is a question of Obedience…that will be asked by Obedience Himself…who, like Truth is not something…Truth is Someone…a Person…Our Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)…so likewise…is it with Obedience…a Someone…a Person…Obedience is Our Lord Jesus Christ (just recollect all of his life – every, thought word and action – … from His Incarnation to Calvary…to the Empty Tomb…To His Ascension in Glory…and to His sending the Holy Spirit…to His continual work in the World through His Church (The Catholic Church and Peter and his Apostles…the Pope and the Bishops their successors…and the Body of Christ – all baptized Christians)…to Build His Kingdom on Earth…then…in His final victory over sin and death…when He comes Again…to hand it over…In Total Obedience to the Father at the End of Time…

Yes…Obedience is His “name”…and He is Sacrificial Obedience…in Sacrificial Love for/to the Father’s Divine Will…thus…Obedience is “the name of the game”…“liberal” and “conservative” have got nothing to do with it. They are…at best…superfluous labels and…at worst…dangerous…Totally useless in Christian discipleship!

Romans 1:5
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.

Catechism of Catholic Church
Faith

2087 Our** moral life has its source in faith in God **who reveals his love to us. **St. Paul speaks of the "obedience of faith"9 as our first obligation. **He shows that “ignorance of God” is the principle and explanation of all moral deviations.10 Our duty toward God is to believe in him and to bear witness to him.

Two quotes from Lutheran Priest & Martyr Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession… Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.”
― Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost Of Discipleship

At this juncture Bonhoeffer introduces two propositions that must be held together always. Both are equally true: **"Only he who believes is obedient, and only he who is obedient believes."6 There is no obedience without faith nor faith without obedience. **In believing there is an act of obedience, such as Peter’s leaving his nets or Matthew’s walking away from his receipts. This act of obedience is never more than a "dead work of the law"7 but it must be done because Jesus commands it. Inability to believe is probably due to unwillingness to take the first step.
religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=2737&C=2489

Again, for your consideration.

Pax Christi

 

[St_Francis]

No Catholic is more or less Catholic than another. The Church teaches that upon baptism or acceptance into the Church, you are Catholic for life even though you may renounce your faith or be excommunicated.

The words liberal, cafeteria, progressive and other adjectives used before the word Catholic are tools for certain Catholics to isolate themselves from others they find less worthy. It can be a discussion tool, but seldom without emotions, judgment, blame, and other negative factors involved.

Catholics love to play “I’m more Catholic than you” games.

Alan

[BIBLEDRB]matt 23:1-12[/BIBLEDRB]

The way language works is that things which exist or come into existence get words or phrases attached to them. The fact that I say someone like Sen. Pelosi is a liberal or cafeteria Catholic does not mean I am distancing myself from her or trying to say I am more Catholic than she is. It means that she is the type of Catholic who embraces socially-liberal ideas while continuing to consider herself a good Catholic. We need to be able to describe people like this, just as in previous csnturies we have had to describe Arians, Donatists, Ultra-Montanists, Modernists… Why?

Precisely *because we need to isolate their ideas *as anti-thetical to Catholic ideas.

This is extremely important, as these people give scandal: they teach others the lie that what they are doing can be consistent with the Catholic Faith.

If we cannot describe the phenomenon, it becomes much more difficult to discuss, and thus more difficult to warn people against. When it is an issue of more importance than even life or death, when it is a matter of someone’s risking an eternity in the fires of Hell, it is necessary to be able to warn, to discuss, to *name. *

 

[AlanFromWichita]

The way language works is that things which exist or come into existence get words or phrases attached to them. The fact that I say someone like Sen. Pelosi is a liberal or cafeteria Catholic does not mean I am distancing myself from her or trying to say I am more Catholic than she is. It means that she is the type of Catholic who embraces socially-liberal ideas while continuing to consider herself a good Catholic. We need to be able to describe people like this, just as in previous csnturies we have had to describe Arians, Donatists, Ultra-Montanists, Modernists… Why?

It sounds like you’re saying it’s descriptive, not pejorative.

Precisely *because we need to isolate their ideas *as anti-thetical to Catholic ideas.

This is extremely important, as these people give scandal: they teach others the lie that what they are doing can be consistent with the Catholic Faith.

Now it sounds pejorative again.

Alan

 

[mommy_k]

Or it can be as simple as someone wearing flip flops and shorts to church.

 

[St_Francis]

As a liberal Catholic, I can speak to this is a few ways.

First, I believe that our Church is a pilgrim church that is constantly increasing our understanding of our faith. We have Tradition that comes to us from our long history and as Vatican II’s Dei Verbum states, tradition grows as we prayerfully consider our experiences and learning in consultation with the bishops and theologians.

Second, I believe that two truths cannot contradict one another, even of on first appearance they seem to do so. As such, I view the Church as the repository of God’s truth, but also feel that the scientific method is a reliable way to discover truths about our universe and bodies. The reconciliation of these two types of truth can be a sometimes painful process and cause us to have to give up our assumptions about how we would like the world to be. That pain flows both ways, if we are honest all around.

How does our learning new things about God’s creation (science) affect faith and morals?

Thirdly, I believe that being a citizen of the United States, I believe that the authority of our government is bound by the Constitution. As such, that which is moral or immoral according to my beliefs may not be suitable for government action to promote or suppress.

All authority is God-given; thus, God binds even before the Constitution does. It *may *be that some actions would cause more social turmoil to prohibit or regulate than would be worth legislating against, and thus these activities may be tolerated, but certainly not in any way promoted, and some evils are of course too great to be tolerated.

This past Sunday was the Feast of Christ the King. This is an important aspect of Catholic social teaching which we should all learn more about.

Fourth, I believe that the Church has wonderful things to teach about the social and moral domains of life.

That, in a nutshell, is what I consider to be my basis for being both liberal and Catholic.

Most people using te term liberal Catholic mean it to describe a person who espouses and promotes beliefs which are contrary to the teaching of the Church while maintaining some form of Catholic identity. These contrary beliefs include that abortion is not something which should be prohibited, that marriage between a man and a woman is to be supported, that contraception is wrong, etc.

A liberal Catholic as a descriptive phrase is different from a Catholic who happens to politically be one of the many forms of liberalism which exist.

 

[Dale_M]

If we cannot describe the phenomenon, it becomes much more difficult to discuss, and thus more difficult to warn people against.

Yes, to be sure. However, the point that several people have made in this thread is that “liberal Catholic” is not a descriptive phrase. It seems to mean whatever the user wants it to mean.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Is it interesting that “conservative” politicians in the US say “there are no hyphenated Americans,” and vilify the left for using those terms.

But “conservative” religious use hyphenated terms and criticize their targets for being offended by them.

Things that make you go…

 

[LoyalViews]

No Catholic is more or less Catholic than another. The Church teaches that upon baptism or acceptance into the Church, you are Catholic for life even though you may renounce your faith or be excommunicated.

The words liberal, cafeteria, progressive and other adjectives used before the word Catholic are tools for certain Catholics to isolate themselves from others they find less worthy.

(edited your quote just so you’ll know what I’m responding to)

I never thought of it like that, thank you. However, we must pray for the “straying” Catholics then. We cannot pretend that there aren’t Catholics who disobey the Church, and we need to pray for them to “come back home to Rome”.

 

[St_Francis]

Yes, to be sure. However, the point that several people have made in this thread is that “liberal Catholic” is not a descriptive phrase. It seems to mean whatever the user wants it to mean.

If it is not descriptive to others then you are right, it does not fulfill its purpose. What should we call them?