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Loving_disciple
Guest
Is it ok if I am a Liberal?
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TK421
Guest
No. Liberal values are against Church teaching.
Among the two highlight issues in the US theater, a Catholic must be against abortion and gay marriage. The libertarian view, where one might condemn them but support their legal recognition, or the liberal view, where one simply supports them, are not acceptable.
Economic models are more-or-less considered discretionary. Hardcore Marxist-style socialism has received condemnation and ire because of how it deduces and debases human worth and the supposed source of happiness to commodities, but generally speaking, you can be a Catholic in good standing and support a higher tax / centralist model. You would not be defying the Magisterium. You’d just be making me facepalm is all. pause for dramatic effect Fear me.
Among the two highlight issues in the US theater, a Catholic must be against abortion and gay marriage. The libertarian view, where one might condemn them but support their legal recognition, or the liberal view, where one simply supports them, are not acceptable.
Economic models are more-or-less considered discretionary. Hardcore Marxist-style socialism has received condemnation and ire because of how it deduces and debases human worth and the supposed source of happiness to commodities, but generally speaking, you can be a Catholic in good standing and support a higher tax / centralist model. You would not be defying the Magisterium. You’d just be making me facepalm is all. pause for dramatic effect Fear me.
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pilgrimjake
Guest
True that, brother!
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St_Francis
Guest
“Liberal Catholic” is an extremely vague term which covers so much ground it is practically meaningless.
So… what exactly do you mean when you say you are liberal, or a Liberal Catholic (as written in your title)?
So… what exactly do you mean when you say you are liberal, or a Liberal Catholic (as written in your title)?
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TRH1292
Guest
What do you mean by Liberal?
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kmuestwin
Guest
If you mean, “Can I be Catholic and vote for a Democratic candidate?” The answer is yes.
The Republican Party isn’t Catholic and the Democratic Party isn’t Catholic.
You have to be smart and vote the issues and find candidates who are close to Catholic social teaching. It’s going to take more work than choosing red or blue.
If you are speaking of Liberal Catholicism as liturgical abuse or disagreeing with Catholic dogma, the answer is NO.
The Republican Party isn’t Catholic and the Democratic Party isn’t Catholic.
You have to be smart and vote the issues and find candidates who are close to Catholic social teaching. It’s going to take more work than choosing red or blue.
If you are speaking of Liberal Catholicism as liturgical abuse or disagreeing with Catholic dogma, the answer is NO.
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Contarini
Guest
It depends on the definition, as others have said.
I would say that it isn’t OK to accept either “liberal” or “conservative” ideologies as they exist in the U.S. today without serious challenge and qualification.
In other words, if there aren’t some ways in which you disagree with both Ann Coulter and Rachel Maddow, you probably have some work to do in properly forming your conscience.
Many folks on this forum will argue that the two sides are radically different, because the points where “liberal” political views conflict with Catholicism (mostly abortion and gay marriage) are “intrinsic evils,” whereas the alleged points of conflict with right-wing views (on war, the death penalty, immigration, social-welfare policies, the environment, etc.) are “prudential” matters. But “intrinsic” isn’t a measure of gravity. It simply means that under no circumstances may this action be justified. Furthermore, there are prudential considerations that affect how we protect innocent life and uphold the sanctity of marriage. In other words, this distinction is overworked and misinterpreted by conservatives.
All this is assuming that you’re using the word “liberal” in a political sense. You really need to give more specifics!
Edwin
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stephe1987
Guest
How about instead of choosing a label such as “liberal” or “conservative” (both major political parties are seriously corrupt, although in different ways), you just focus on being a good Catholic, following Church teaching and working on growing in personal virtue? 
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Loving_disciple
Guest
When I say Liberal Catholic, refering to myself. I don’t support gay marriage in anyway or the choice for abortion. However I do believe in spreading wealth around so no one is in need. I also believe that Church and State should be separated. Marriage is a religious idea so I don’t think the government has a say in it
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Loving_disciple
Guest
I can’t be Catholic if I don’t believe in the Dogma. In fact I won’t be Christian then
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Loving_disciple
Guest
I think that your answer is the best one here so far. It is just most of my views are Liberal when it comes to the poor which is in line with the Church last I checked.How about instead of choosing a label such as “liberal” or “conservative” (both major political parties are seriously corrupt, although in different ways), you just focus on being a good Catholic, following Church teaching and working on growing in personal virtue?
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St_Francis
Guest
People can certainly disagree about how best to help the poor as long as we all agree that we are obligated to help those in need.
The Church’s position on this is a little bit tricky, so you might possibly agree with the actual Church position
Funny! I think this is a libertarian position.
i do think that one of the functions of government is to have laws which encourage the formation of stable 2-parents-of-the-opposite-sex families because children are the future of any society, and I believe that the Church considers this a part of natural law.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
No, it’s not ok to be a Liberal Catholic (or a Conservative Catholic). It is ok to be a Catholic with liberal political/social views (or with conservative political/social views). As long as Catholicism > political/social views you are good.
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TK421
Guest
This is not a view that you are allowed to endorse. Catholics must support having civil marriages reflect their greater reality.
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manualman
Guest
Well nobody’s perfect, are they?
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CrossofChrist
Guest
That’s very vague but probably is in line with Church teaching. Depends what you mean though.
Possibly acceptable. Depends what you mean.
The government has an obligation to defend what is right, and specifically has the duty to support the family, including marriage. If you mean that the government can’t make up its own mind about what marriage is apart from the Church you are correct.
Civil authority should consider it a grave duty "to acknowledge the true nature of marriage and the family, to protect and foster them, to safeguard public morality, and promote domestic prosperity. - CCC 2210
Gaudium et Spes 52: All those, therefore, who exercise influence over communities and social groups should work efficiently for the welfare of marriage and the family. Public authority should regard it as a sacred duty to recognize, protect and promote their authentic nature, to shield public morality and to favor the prosperity of home life.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
The only “liberal” thing you have so far attributed to yourself is caring for the poor. I’m not sure that qualifies you as liberal.
I think most would consider me “conservative” in that I am not a big government guy, particularly on the federal level, and I am far from being a social “liberal” in the modern American sense. I do NOT believe in middle class welfare. Nor do I believe in true “wealth distribution” in the sense of taking from one to give to the other simply to level incomes and wealth.
On the other hand, I think the treatment of the truly poor in this country; the ones who can’t help themselves, is shameful. Neither Repubs nor Dems have done anything for them for decades other than the earned income credit, and that was Reagan’s. So, was Reagan “liberal”? Most would say not, but he did do that. Is Obama, who has done nothing but harm the poor “conservative”, even reactionary? Most would say not to that as well, but that’s his record. He is an income redistributionist, for sure, but only within the middle class that doesn’t need it.
Rather than greatly concerning oneself with which conventional political label to put on oneself, I recommend reading the Popes’ Social Encyclicals. They talk about the economic positions of the Church a lot. I think they are enlightening. Just google “Social Encyclicals”, and you’ll find a lot of fascinating reading. Virtually every Pope wrote one.
Along with that, I recommend getting the book “Redeeming Economics” by John Mueller. It’s on Amazon. He applies the encyclicals as well as the economics of St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas in the context of modern economists and theories. It’s a very learned book, and well documented, though sometimes the graphs and equations are a bit of a slog. But it’s readable even so.
So am I really a “liberal” or a “conservative”? I like to think of myself as simply a “Catholic”.
I think most would consider me “conservative” in that I am not a big government guy, particularly on the federal level, and I am far from being a social “liberal” in the modern American sense. I do NOT believe in middle class welfare. Nor do I believe in true “wealth distribution” in the sense of taking from one to give to the other simply to level incomes and wealth.
On the other hand, I think the treatment of the truly poor in this country; the ones who can’t help themselves, is shameful. Neither Repubs nor Dems have done anything for them for decades other than the earned income credit, and that was Reagan’s. So, was Reagan “liberal”? Most would say not, but he did do that. Is Obama, who has done nothing but harm the poor “conservative”, even reactionary? Most would say not to that as well, but that’s his record. He is an income redistributionist, for sure, but only within the middle class that doesn’t need it.
Rather than greatly concerning oneself with which conventional political label to put on oneself, I recommend reading the Popes’ Social Encyclicals. They talk about the economic positions of the Church a lot. I think they are enlightening. Just google “Social Encyclicals”, and you’ll find a lot of fascinating reading. Virtually every Pope wrote one.
Along with that, I recommend getting the book “Redeeming Economics” by John Mueller. It’s on Amazon. He applies the encyclicals as well as the economics of St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas in the context of modern economists and theories. It’s a very learned book, and well documented, though sometimes the graphs and equations are a bit of a slog. But it’s readable even so.
So am I really a “liberal” or a “conservative”? I like to think of myself as simply a “Catholic”.
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CrossofChrist
Guest
I’ve always found your posts about politics etc insightful because of how Catholic they are, albeit with a conservative bent.
J
JB_Dugan
Guest
Hey, everybody, lighten up on Loving disciple.
I am a conservative Catholic and I need some new blood to argue with.
It is totally cool to want to “spread the wealth” around in relationship to the poor.
In fact …doing so without being told to is the essence of benevolent generosity.
Conservative Catholics resent being told to spread our wealth. Particularly when a government forces us to do that. We may grinch about an “obligation” within the Church to help the poor, but in the long run we probably donate more. (Don’t tell the other conservatives I said that)
Just keep it to yourself that you are a liberal and everything will be fine. Avoid labels like: Right and Left. Latin is the official language of the Church. The Latin word for “Right” is Dexter…but the Latin word for “Left” is SINISTER.
I am a conservative Catholic and I need some new blood to argue with.
It is totally cool to want to “spread the wealth” around in relationship to the poor.
In fact …doing so without being told to is the essence of benevolent generosity.
Conservative Catholics resent being told to spread our wealth. Particularly when a government forces us to do that. We may grinch about an “obligation” within the Church to help the poor, but in the long run we probably donate more. (Don’t tell the other conservatives I said that)
Just keep it to yourself that you are a liberal and everything will be fine. Avoid labels like: Right and Left. Latin is the official language of the Church. The Latin word for “Right” is Dexter…but the Latin word for “Left” is SINISTER.
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nuff_said_2013
Guest
In most circles, the Pope is considered liberal. I think you are OK.
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