Liberal Catholicism

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In the time I have participated in this forum, I’ve never seen a definition of Liberal Catholicism. What is it? What are its distinguishing characteristics? Are there beliefs that automatically identify one as a “liberal” catholic? It almost seems to me that if one does not 100 % back a return to the Traditional Latin Mass, want altar girls banned, and follows every pronouncement of the magesterium without any question or doubt, they are a “liberal” catholic.

Based on my own beliefs, on some issues I’m conservative, on some, liberal, and I’d like to try to clear up the confusion, at least in my own mind.

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
The way I see most people use this term, which is not a very good one, is to describe someone who does really accept all the teachings of the Church, a “cafeteria Catholic” as it were, one who picks and chooses what to believe or what not to.

Another use may be to refer to those people who want to change unchangeable teachings of the Church, such as on abortion, euthanasia, the same-sex (sexually deviant) marriage, sexually deviant behavior in general or the ordination of women priestesses. In many cases, people who are “liberal” Catholics are either heretics or apostates.

However, I think it is a bad term. “Nominal Catholic” may be a better phrase.
 
Heres the definitions i usually go by, which i think are pretty good.

Using them, you can see Catholicism split into three (overgeneralizing, of course) different camps: Traditionalism, Conservative, and Progressive/Liberal.

Traditional Catholics are those that would prefer a return to the Tridentine Rite of Mass and the other Sacraments, and disagree with most of the changes made by Vatican II. Usually, they are more suspicious of ecumenical dialogue, believeing that too often the Catholic Church makes to many concessions to other faiths. They also think the Church should stand opposed to Modernism, and fight it zelously.

Conservative Catholics are those that support most of the changes made by Vatican II, and believe they were necessary for the Church to remain effective and important in the changing modern world. John Paul II is a pretty good example of a Conservative Catholic: he himself didn’t much favor a return to the Tridentine Rite of things, but viewed the traditions as importat and allowed for its (limited) celebration. While he tried to dialoque with other religions and the modern world, he also refused to back down on teachings like birth control and married or female priests. Often, they support Papal/Curial authority over that of local bishops.

Progressive/Liberal Catholics are those that think Vatican II did not go far enough. They usually want to see things like married priests, female priests, the allowal of birth control, and sometimes support abortion rites. Often, they want Bishops to have more authority, and to allow local differences in the way the sacraments are celebrated which accomodate different cultures and traditions. Very often, they think the Church is becoming irrelevant and must do more to fit into the modern world rather than fight it, like more horizontal theology, popular music in mass, and less strict observation of liturgical rubrics.

Beliefnet has an interesting “what type of Catholic are you” quiz which has pretty similar definitions. So give it a try and see where you fall:
beliefnet.com/section/quiz/index.asp?sectionID=&surveyID=95
 
Conservative or Very Traditional Catholics are those to my right and Liberals or Progressives are those to my left. The good faithful Catholics are those who agree with me. I do not go for women priests, contraception, abortion, shacking up (cohabitation), habitually missing Mass, and irreverent Masses including those with liturgical dancers. St. Louis Jesuits are fine but many of the Oregon Missalette hymns stink.
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
Heres the definitions i usually go by, which i think are pretty good.

Using them, you can see Catholicism split into three (overgeneralizing, of course) different camps: Traditionalism, Conservative, and Progressive/Liberal.

Very smart breakdown Belgianwaffles9. What would be a reasonable breakdown on these 3 groups? From my experience, I would say the majority would fall into the Progressive/Liberal camp, especially if you include those “Catholics” who haven’t darkened a door of the church since they were confirmed or those who only return for Christmas Midnight Mass or for a funeral or wedding. Interested in hearing from others.
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elgar said:
Very smart breakdown Belgianwaffles9. What would be a reasonable breakdown on these 3 groups? From my experience, I would say the majority would fall into the Progressive/Liberal camp, especially if you include those “Catholics” who haven’t darkened a door of the church since they were confirmed or those who only return for Christmas Midnight Mass or for a funeral or wedding. Interested in hearing from others.
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Thank you very much. I’ve borrowed terms heavily from other Catholic bloggers and what not. As for the breakdown… I think a majority of people are Conservatives. One term you might see used is the “John Paul II Generation,” those who grew up under him, mostly in the 80s, and were more influenced by his conservatism than by the progressivism of their baby-boomer parents. Among the over 60-crowd, progressivism is clearly, i think, the largest camp. Those younger tend to be more conservative.

What is being noted now is that the “millenial” generation, who grew up in JPII’s later years, are far more traditional than even their conservative parents. The church is currently wtnessing a small but strong and growing movement of traditional catholics. These younger, “millenial” catholics are extremely well represented on this forum, and virtually run the Catholic blogosphere, and Benedict XVI will greatly influence a continued growth of this camp.
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
And I a 93. Glad to know I’m in good company 😉
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Interesting. I scored an 89. I’m guessing the only reason I didn’t score higher is the whole Mass in Latin only thing. I’ve only been once, and while I thoroughly enjoyed it, I don’t know if I could do it every day/week. 🤷

-CK
 
joeybaggz said:
In the time I have participated in this forum, I’ve never seen a definition of Liberal Catholicism. What is it? What are its distinguishing characteristics? Are there beliefs that automatically identify one as a “liberal” catholic? It almost seems to me that if one does not 100 % back a return to the Traditional Latin Mass, want altar girls banned, and follows every pronouncement of the magesterium without any question or doubt, they are a “liberal” catholic.

Based on my own beliefs, on some issues I’m conservative, on some, liberal, and I’d like to try to clear up the confusion, at least in my own mind.

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.
Click to expand...
I have never seen an official definition of traditional Catholicism either. On these forums it typically boils down to a picking-and-choosing of different things people like who label themselves as “traditonalists.”

“Liberal” and “modernism” is often misused as terms to attack others around there parts. As if terms and what they describes is inherently negative which it is not.

Oh yeah – I just scored a 91.
 
elgar said:
[QUOTEVery smart breakdown Belgianwaffles9. What would be a reasonable breakdown on these 3 groups? From my experience, I would say the majority would fall into the Progressive/Liberal camp, especially if you include those “Catholics” who haven’t darkened a door of the church since they were confirmed or those who only return for Christmas Midnight Mass or for a funeral or wedding. Interested in hearing from others.
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I agree, nice breakdown BW9. So, two things come to mind. First. let’s forget about categorizing those who are lazy and really don’t come to church except Easter and Christmas and the occasional funeral or wedding, and those who identify as Catholics because, although they haven’t seen the inside of a church for twenty years, they were baptized Catholic so, that’s how they identify themselves.

How about those who generally accept Church teachings and attend mass weekly or even more, participate in parish life, but are a bit out in the shade on such things as ABC, married priests, and women priests? And by “out in the shade” I mean those who are willing to consider or discuss the issues, not those who are stridently carrying picket signs. People who are trying to discern issues based on contrasting points of view.

I phrase it this way because the teaching that I have come to accept (and it was taught to me by Catholic priests - several in fact) is that one can dissent from church teachings, but one can never preach it. In other words, one can follow one’s conscience
[/quote]
 
]I have never seen an official definition of traditional Catholicism either. On these forums it typically boils down to a picking-and-choosing of different things people like who label themselves as “traditonalists.”

“Liberal” and “modernism” is often misused as terms to attack others around there parts. As if terms and what they describes is inherently negative which it is not.

“Pick and Choose Catholics” who defy church teaching on the “non-negotionable” life issues are definitely liberal/progressives by my definition. --Elgar
 
Heh, Scored an 88

I didn’t really like how some where phrased and kinda had to pick the next best thing.

Example: Question 15
Q15. About priestly celibacy, I think:
Click to expand...
Code: 
1. It's a hard rule, but it allows the priest to devote himself unselfishly to God and to his parishioners
2. It should be optional, but as in the Eastern churches, priests should not be allowed to marry after ordination
3. It should be optional, and ordained priests should be allowed to marry
4. Priests should be encouraged to marry, so as to be able to relate to their married parishioners/
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The celibate priesthood isn’t dogma or anything. There are currently married priest in the church today. There are many, many very good reasons why the celibate priesthood the norm and why it should continue to be the norm, however there are currently and will probably always be the rare exception.

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MARPRIE.htm

I can’t find it now but I read something a while back written by a married Catholic Priest arguing for the celibate priesthood. I’ll keep looking and see if I can find it.
 
LJN21 said:
Heh, Scored an 88

I didn’t really like how some where phrased and kinda had to pick the next best thing.
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I agree. That test had to be written by a protestant, or by a catholic with an agenda. On half the questions I had to pick an answer that was a little more conservative or liberal than my actual position. Scored a 93 but probably should have been closer to 85.
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
Heres the definitions i usually go by, which i think are pretty good.

Using them, you can see Catholicism split into three (overgeneralizing, of course) different camps: Traditionalism, Conservative, and Progressive/Liberal.

Traditional Catholics are those that would prefer a return to the Tridentine Rite of Mass and the other Sacraments, and disagree with most of the changes made by Vatican II. Usually, they are more suspicious of ecumenical dialogue, believeing that too often the Catholic Church makes to many concessions to other faiths. They also think the Church should stand opposed to Modernism, and fight it zelously.

Conservative Catholics are those that support most of the changes made by Vatican II, and believe they were necessary for the Church to remain effective and important in the changing modern world. John Paul II is a pretty good example of a Conservative Catholic: he himself didn’t much favor a return to the Tridentine Rite of things, but viewed the traditions as importat and allowed for its (limited) celebration. While he tried to dialoque with other religions and the modern world, he also refused to back down on teachings like birth control and married or female priests. Often, they support Papal/Curial authority over that of local bishops.

Progressive/Liberal Catholics are those that think Vatican II did not go far enough. They usually want to see things like married priests, female priests, the allowal of birth control, and sometimes support abortion rites. Often, they want Bishops to have more authority, and to allow local differences in the way the sacraments are celebrated which accomodate different cultures and traditions. Very often, they think the Church is becoming irrelevant and must do more to fit into the modern world rather than fight it, like more horizontal theology, popular music in mass, and less strict observation of liturgical rubrics.

Beliefnet has an interesting “what type of Catholic are you” quiz which has pretty similar definitions. So give it a try and see where you fall:
beliefnet.com/section/quiz/index.asp?sectionID=&surveyID=95
Click to expand...
I was gonna write my own, but this one covers it just dandy. Or, in other words…“Yah, what he said” 👍
 
joeybaggz said:
In the time I have participated in this forum, I’ve never seen a definition of Liberal Catholicism. What is it? What are its distinguishing characteristics? Are there beliefs that automatically identify one as a “liberal” catholic? It almost seems to me that if one does not 100 % back a return to the Traditional Latin Mass, want altar girls banned, and follows every pronouncement of the magesterium without any question or doubt, they are a “liberal” catholic.

Based on my own beliefs, on some issues I’m conservative, on some, liberal, and I’d like to try to clear up the confusion, at least in my own mind.

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.
Click to expand...
The famed Catholic Liturgical Spreadsheet might provide some insight liturgicalspreadsheet.tripod.com/catholicspreadsheet.pdf
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
Heres the definitions i usually go by, which i think are pretty good.

Using them, you can see Catholicism split into three (overgeneralizing, of course) different camps: Traditionalism, Conservative, and Progressive/Liberal.

Traditional Catholics are those that would prefer a return to the Tridentine Rite of Mass and the other Sacraments, and disagree with most of the changes made by Vatican II. Usually, they are more suspicious of ecumenical dialogue, believeing that too often the Catholic Church makes to many concessions to other faiths. They also think the Church should stand opposed to Modernism, and fight it zelously.

Conservative Catholics are those that support most of the changes made by Vatican II, and believe they were necessary for the Church to remain effective and important in the changing modern world. John Paul II is a pretty good example of a Conservative Catholic: he himself didn’t much favor a return to the Tridentine Rite of things, but viewed the traditions as importat and allowed for its (limited) celebration. While he tried to dialoque with other religions and the modern world, he also refused to back down on teachings like birth control and married or female priests. Often, they support Papal/Curial authority over that of local bishops.

Progressive/Liberal Catholics are those that think Vatican II did not go far enough. They usually want to see things like married priests, female priests, the allowal of birth control, and sometimes support abortion rites. Often, they want Bishops to have more authority, and to allow local differences in the way the sacraments are celebrated which accomodate different cultures and traditions. Very often, they think the Church is becoming irrelevant and must do more to fit into the modern world rather than fight it, like more horizontal theology, popular music in mass, and less strict observation of liturgical rubrics.

Beliefnet has an interesting “what type of Catholic are you” quiz which has pretty similar definitions. So give it a try and see where you fall:
beliefnet.com/section/quiz/index.asp?sectionID=&surveyID=95
Click to expand...
Your personal definitions missed one. It’s the group I belong to. We are known as the **orthodox Catholic Christians:
**
We simply follow God and His Son through their Church. We don’t believe we know more than the Church like some of our extremist brethren (in either direction.) When we initially don’t care for something the Church teaches or directs we don’t suggest we know better – we pray to God so that we may better understand the reason for the Church’s position and to bolster our own faith. We never discount Church teachings no matter how difficult or prolonged our struggle might be to accept them.

We would find labels like “traditional”, “conservative” and “liberal/progressive” rather ludicrous if they were not so stultified and divisive. We pray for those who use such labels to gain the wisdom necessary to understand the harm their use does and the absolute lack of good that comes from their use. We are not “traditionalists”, “conservatives”, “liberals” or “progressives” – we are Catholics!

We strongly support what the Church teaches, directs and advises and we realize that it’s the Church’s understanding and not our own that is the final word. We are well aware of the nuances and subtleties that many matters carry. We don’t rely on ourselves to accurately interpret Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition – we rely on the Church and that reliance extends to other Church documents as well.

Moderate in our positions, we seek the truth that comes from God through His Church and are not afraid of rejecting man’s opinion when it contravenes the Church.

We are aware that heterodoxy exists largely in both extremes of the Church so we do our best to avoid both of them. We eschew what we personally believe is “best” (or “better”) for what the Church actually teaches or directs.

In the end we are simply Catholic Christians…
 
famous liberal Catholics and others who seem to support abortion:

Martin Sheen
Phil Donahue
Marlo Thomas
Morgan Fairchild

any or all Catholic Democrat Politicians and ordinary democratic voting folk.
 
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