Liberal Church in America

[zorrox]

Why is it that the Church in America is more liberal than in Europe and the rest of the world?

 

[Caesar]

I was under the impression that compared to parts of Europe the Church in North America is quite conservative.

 

[jbuck919]

All the developed democratic world has a strong, perhaps dominant liberal “wing” of the Church. The last pope fought this very hard, so there is a huge divide between a large portion of the congregation and the people who actually (in the US literally) own the church, who are the bishops. If you look at some of their shenanigans, I imagine that even many of the bishops are quite liberal and toe the line for the sake of having and then keeping their jobs.

Modern educated people in a generally (to use the term more broadly) liberal society simply cannot be expected to subscribe to teachings like the immorality of artificial birth control. That seems to many if not most modern people a teaching characteristic of a cult (the Jehovah’s Witnesses not allowing blood transfusions, etc.), not a mainstream religion.

The difference between Europe and the US is that in most of Europe they long ago voted with their feet and people simply stopped going to church. In the US they also vote with their feet, but it manifests itself differently. Either people are cafeteria Catholics (and proud of it), or they defect to one of the many other available denominations.

Like most Catholic message boards, this one has a strong conservative bias (that is not intended as a criticism), so many people are horrified when confronted with this, in my opinion, reality. But I have to call it the way I see it.

 

[Fidelis]

Modernistically educated people in a generally (to use the term more broadly) liberal society simply cannot be expected to subscribe to teachings like the immorality of artificial birth control. That seems to many if not most modern**istic **people a teaching characteristic of a cult (the Jehovah’s Witnesses not allowing blood transfusions, etc.), not a mainstream religion.

I know you were speaking in general terms and, although I do agree with you in the main, I would qualify the terms you used as shown above.

It’s not that no modern educated persons cannot hold certain teachings of the the Church (many very educated and and brilliant people do). However, it is the **way **that most modern people are educated that makes the difference. Most modern education amounts to indocrination into a liberal philosophy that pounds the constant mantra: there are no absolute truths; I am the ultimate decider of what is right or wrong, true or false.This is reinforced by our hedonistic culture and media, plus good old human selfishness. Education in the broad sense, per se, has little to do with it.

 

[StCsDavid]

I was under the impression that compared to parts of Europe the Church in North America is quite conservative.

Having been to several churches in Europe, I would say that The Church is more conservative in Europe, but many people have left the faith for secularism. On the contrary, many Catholic Churches in the U.S.A. tried to secularize the faith in an attempt to keep people from leaving. The good news is that you find the young people who do embrace the faith far more orthodox than their parents, and their numbers seem to be increasing. Personally, I believe the Church in the U.S. will recover faster than the Church in Europe…in part due to the influx of the Latin American culture.

 

[Riley259]

All the developed democratic world has a strong, perhaps dominant liberal “wing” of the Church. The last pope fought this very hard, so there is a huge divide between a large portion of the congregation and the people who actually (in the US literally) own the church, who are the bishops. If you look at some of their shenanigans, I imagine that even many of the bishops are quite liberal and toe the line for the sake of having and then keeping their jobs.

Modern educated people in a generally (to use the term more broadly) liberal society simply cannot be expected to subscribe to teachings like the immorality of artificial birth control. That seems to many if not most modern people a teaching characteristic of a cult (the Jehovah’s Witnesses not allowing blood transfusions, etc.), not a mainstream religion.

The difference between Europe and the US is that in most of Europe they long ago voted with their feet and people simply stopped going to church. In the US they also vote with their feet, but it manifests itself differently. Either people are cafeteria Catholics (and proud of it), or they defect to one of the many other available denominations.

Like most Catholic message boards, this one has a strong conservative bias (that is not intended as a criticism), so many people are horrified when confronted with this, in my opinion, reality. But I have to call it the way I see it.

What you say is probably true so the next question is how do we fix it?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Why is it that the Church in America is more liberal than in Europe and the rest of the world?

It’s the American culture. Their focus is on: me, myself and I. What I want, what I need. Many people especially many of the teen and young adult generation do not feel that any rules or laws apply to them, if they do not like the rule they simply ignore it and simply go on to do as they want.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

It’s the American culture. Their focus is on: me, myself and I. What I want, what I need. Many people especially many of the teen and young adult generation do not feel that any rules or laws apply to them, if they do not like the rule they simply ignore it and simply go on to do as they want.

This is called “selfism”. How do we fix it? Teach Catholics what the Church teaches and why, even if they don’t want to hear it. Then it will not matter what the liberal Bishop wants, the people will know better.

 

[Melchior]

It’s the American culture. Their focus is on: me, myself and I. What I want, what I need. Many people especially many of the teen and young adult generation do not feel that any rules or laws apply to them, if they do not like the rule they simply ignore it and simply go on to do as they want.

Is that really the case? I mean there are many Churches that are strongly conservative such as certain Presbyterians, Anglicans, Lutherans and Evangelicals.

I mean this with all due respect but from where I sit I think it has alot more to do with the boomer generation of Priests and Bishops and the feminization of the Church they brought in, not to mention the stripping of the liturgy of truly sacred music in place of man centered folk songs. I mean the leadership allowed this not the laity. But it was the laity, feminists and modernists in particular the jumped on the “spirit of Vatican II” bandwagon. The church has always been at odds with the greater culture. It is when the church, particularly Bishops and Priests, adopt the culture that problems take root. What’s worse it they are about 20 to 30 years behind in the culture as evidenced by the stuff that passes for worship music these days. It sounds like it was writtten by James Taylor and Peter, Paul and Mary.

Orthodoc Priests and Bishops is the answer to the liberal priest and Bishop problem. IMO. The faithful will follow strong men. Masculine men. It will bring others in too.

Dave

 

[Maranatha]

This is called “selfism”. How do we fix it? Teach Catholics what the Church teaches and why, even if they don’t want to hear it. Then it will not matter what the liberal Bishop wants, the people will know better.

Ironically selfism, the single-minded pursuit of self gratification, does not lead to happiness. Any happiness achieved through self gratification is fleeting.

The truth is, the only way to sustained happiness is selflessness. Mother Theresa and Pope John Paul the Great knew this truth. JC gave us the ultimate selfless act. This is one reason why we can say the truth is a person.

Since we have the truth on our side, we know we will prevail. The way to win is to live the truth as well as teach the truth.

 

[IsMiseSteise]

This is called “selfism”. How do we fix it? Teach Catholics what the Church teaches and why, even if they don’t want to hear it. Then it will not matter what the liberal Bishop wants, the people will know better.

I couldn’t agree more!

I’m lucky, I have Catholic friends who KNOW the church teachings and have been helping me along my way (I was raised by a family of cafeteria Catholics). If it was’t for them, I wouldn’t know squat. I certainly wasn’t taught what I really needed to know during CCD. Some of the more important things were covered like pre-marital sex and euthanasia, but a lot of things were missing. And, some things weren’t covered all the way.

 

[puzzleannie]

Why is it that the Church in America is more liberal than in Europe and the rest of the world?

in order to have a productive discussion it is first necessary to provide proof that your statement is true. I don’t know that it is. The Church in many European countries, Netherlands for example is far more liberal than in America, and the Church in America is by no means liberal in all parishes and all dioceses. A generalization like this is pretty useless for discussion. We also have not decided what “liberal” means.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I was under the impression that compared to parts of Europe the Church in North America is quite conservative.

To this non-US person, large swathes of US Catholicism seem to be almost ready to enter the 1920s - & some sound as though they may be about to enter the 14th century.​

All joking apart, what I find amazing, & most instantly noticeable, is the degree of deference the clergy seem to enjoy. It’s not like that in the UK, at all. There are Catholic groups in the UK who reject evolution, Biblical criticism, & non-Thomistic philosophies, & endure rather than respect Vatican II - but they are not as vocal as their US counterparts appear to be: probably because the number of Catholics in the UK, both as a percentage of the population & in gross numbers, is a very small fraction of the numbers & percentages of the CC in the US.

Websites like that of EWTN, CWN, or CAF seem to be far more prominent than those of any UK movements like them: probably 100 people have heard of EWTN for every one who has heard of (say) Pro Ecclesia et Pontefice. Even Catholic books over here are very largely from TAN, the Sophia Institute, Roman Catholic Books, & (of course) Ignatius Press.

So for a Church which is “liberal” (whatever that means) the CC in the USA has a very long reach. US Catholics, viewed from afar, seem to be either very strict, or very easy-going - there seems to be no middle ground, only extremes; whereas it’s almost the opposite here - there is very little except the middle ground: the CC in England is hard to distinguish from the C of E, except that it has the Pope, no married clergy, & is vocally opposed to abortion, at least officially.

Britain is said to be more secular than any other country in Europe - though how one assesses this, I don’t know. ##