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Ruthie
Guest
On the Ask an Apologist forum, they refer people who have gotten no satisfaction at the Diocesan level to the St. Joseph Foundation.
Hope this helps,
Ruthie
Hope this helps,
Ruthie
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juliamajor
Guest
how about adultery- after all it’s one of the top ten!
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juliamajor
Guest
the problem is that having someone to hate and feel superior to and vilify seems to be part of human nature. Christ always wants us to look inwardly first before we condemn others. I know a guy, supposedly religious, married a long time , meets some gal- dumps his family and lives with her. He divorces the first to marry the second and then has the nerve to throw his child out of his house for being gay"it’s a great sin" says he.!And everyone in his church justs thinks that since he married his mistress everything is ok! Hypocrite ! How can we correct others when we ourselves need it…When you start measuring your own sin against a brother or sisters and you come out(to yourself) smelling like a rose- you are in deep do do.Look to your own salvation first- and what you need to get there and be honest with yourself… that’s my 2pennies worth.:
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suz_slu
Guest
I have no idea how your post contributes to the issue. I never claimed to be better than anyone else or to vilify anyone. I’m talking about leadership not following the teachings of the church.the problem is that having someone to hate and feel superior to and vilify seems to be part of human nature. Christ always wants us to look inwardly first before we condemn others. I know a guy, supposedly religious, married a long time , meets some gal- dumps his family and lives with her. He divorces the first to marry the second and then has the nerve to throw his child out of his house for being gay"it’s a great sin" says he.!And everyone in his church justs thinks that since he married his mistress everything is ok! Hypocrite ! How can we correct others when we ourselves need it…When you start measuring your own sin against a brother or sisters and you come out(to yourself) smelling like a rose- you are in deep do do.Look to your own salvation first- and what you need to get there and be honest with yourself… that’s my 2pennies worth.:
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juliamajor
Guest
Honey- get a grip-it’s a statement!!Your not even mentioned and nobody’s vilifying anybody- my 2 cents that’s it.
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Rickwood
Guest
Sure – it was in no way excluded…
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Kolbelover
Guest
Do you have regular Holy Hours at that parish? I think prayer before the exposed Blessed Sacrament would help everyone…
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Well, julia, about that statement:
I don’t doubt I’m guilty of hypocracy more than I would like, or being judgmental–but it was kind of a ‘wholesale charge’ there and (to me) looked as though you were saying that nobody should EVER ‘judge’ anything–which is not Scripturally correct. While we are told not to ‘judge others’ souls’. . .we are also told by St. Paul to exercise careful judgment not only of our own actions, but the actions and words of others, and to give fraternal, and charitable, correction when necessary.
If we do not ‘speak up’ (lest we be accused of 'judging), then how can we help somebody?
Why you yourself appear to have exercised a ‘judgment call’ on OTHERS with your post. . .having noted ‘hypocracy’ etc. So obviously there are ‘wrong actions’ which should be noted and dealt with (fraternally and in charity).
I really wish your post had been just a little clearer for my own benefit. I fear that I just cannot understand it in light of the thread, and I would not wish to let it go by misunderstood. . . as I could very well have misunderstood, it not being that clear and I, myself, not being all that bright. . .
Perhaps you would not mind explaining to me how we should take your post in regards to the posts on this thread, and the topic of the thread? I would be very grateful.
While it certainly is quite true that we need to ‘get rid of the planks in our own eyes before going after the speck in our brothers’ eye’. . .I quite agree with Sue --I don’t see it as addressing this particular topic. . .and if you meant it as telling EVERYBODY to ‘quit judging whether this parish is liberal or not and just sit back and work on your own failings’ --you probably should have been a little more clear. The way it came across (while you are quite right, it didn’t 'name names")–it looked to the average viewer (me, for example), that you were pretty much stating that SOMEBODY on this thread --if not a LOT of somebodies–are guilty of being HYPOCRITES for ‘judging others’.the problem is that having someone to hate and feel superior to and vilify seems to be part of human nature. Christ always wants us to look inwardly first before we condemn others. I know a guy, supposedly religious, married a long time , meets some gal- dumps his family and lives with her. He divorces the first to marry the second and then has the nerve to throw his child out of his house for being gay"it’s a great sin" says he.!And everyone in his church justs thinks that since he married his mistress everything is ok! Hypocrite ! How can we correct others when we ourselves need it…When you start measuring your own sin against a brother or sisters and you come out(to yourself) smelling like a rose- you are in deep do do.Look to your own salvation first- and what you need to get there and be honest with yourself… that’s my 2pennies worth.:
I don’t doubt I’m guilty of hypocracy more than I would like, or being judgmental–but it was kind of a ‘wholesale charge’ there and (to me) looked as though you were saying that nobody should EVER ‘judge’ anything–which is not Scripturally correct. While we are told not to ‘judge others’ souls’. . .we are also told by St. Paul to exercise careful judgment not only of our own actions, but the actions and words of others, and to give fraternal, and charitable, correction when necessary.
If we do not ‘speak up’ (lest we be accused of 'judging), then how can we help somebody?
Why you yourself appear to have exercised a ‘judgment call’ on OTHERS with your post. . .having noted ‘hypocracy’ etc. So obviously there are ‘wrong actions’ which should be noted and dealt with (fraternally and in charity).
I really wish your post had been just a little clearer for my own benefit. I fear that I just cannot understand it in light of the thread, and I would not wish to let it go by misunderstood. . . as I could very well have misunderstood, it not being that clear and I, myself, not being all that bright. . .
Perhaps you would not mind explaining to me how we should take your post in regards to the posts on this thread, and the topic of the thread? I would be very grateful.
J
juliamajor
Guest
oh please- stop getting your panties in a twist- I repeat -a statement- I include myself in said statement- that’s all.If you see yourself in there- ain’t my fault. Stop seeing things that aren’t there and relax- it’s only words! Peace
M
maurin
Guest
suz slu,
I am in a similar situation. I have attended 12 Parishes within a half hour’s drive from my home, and have heard the most shocking things in homilies that contradicted both the Faith and Morals.
Do not support that Parish with your dollars, and make it clear that you are not.
If you are able to run, then run. My only choice is between 2 valid but illicit Masses: the circus at the Parish or the SSPX Chapel. I’ve chosen the latter.
C
crenfro
Guest
and we all need to take the utmost care with our words…it’s only words! Peace
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Rickwood
Guest
To reject the Catholic Church for a group that is in schism at best, heresy at worst is bad. Please reconsider and keep praying.
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Dauphin
Guest
The Church says it’s not in schism. Ecclesia Dei recommends against attending in case one develops a “schismatic mentality”, but a Catholic fulfills his Sunday obligation by doing so. Frankly, this is one case in which it seems fully justified to attend - the lesser of two evils.
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juliamajor
Guest
Ah,yes. Everyone Does
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juliamajor
Guest
If you’ve been to twelve parishes and found all them wanting then I would think that the problem is not with them but you… what do expect of the church and priests ?Bishops and priests are human and are bound to commit folly. are you judging by Church standards or your own?Does the Church have to live up to your standards or it’s own?Running away solves nothing and nothing will change if you do.If you think that the parish should change- then fight for it. Get on committees-parish councils anything to voice your opinion.A few friendswanted to have adoration- but the pastor said the church was too small and no one would come. So we got together bought a monstrance gave it to the pastor and basically said’ now we would like to use it". Adoration started small ,but built slowly- now in our new church we’re going to have an adoration chapel! persistence wins!Put the armor of God on and nothing will be impossible.But try to be non confrontational about it. None of the bishops or priests like to lose face.martin luther left in a huff and with anger - see what happened then?Reconciliation - not division.
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Kolbelover
Guest
Juliamajor…AMEN!
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juliamajor
Guest
Thanks-
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Rickwood
Guest
Excellent posting…If you’ve been to twelve parishes and found all them wanting then I would think that the problem is not with them but you.. what do expect of the church and priests ?Bishops and priests are human and are bound to commit folly. are you judging by Church standards or your own?Does the Church have to live up to your standards or it’s own?Running away solves nothing and nothing will change if you do.If you think that the parish should change- then fight for it. Get on committees-parish councils anything to voice your opinion.A few friends wanted to have adoration- but the pastor said the church was too small and no one would come. So we got together bought a monstrance gave it to the pastor and basically said’ now we would like to use it". Adoration started small ,but built slowly- now in our new church we’re going to have an adoration chapel! persistence wins!Put the armor of God on and nothing will be impossible.But try to be non confrontational about it. None of the bishops or priests like to lose face.martin luther left in a huff and with anger - see what happened then?Reconciliation - not division.
Something is broken if one has problems with 12 parishes.
Why I would advocate someone moving if they were not being nourished, having problems with 12 parishes is beyond the pale.
You make a good point. Stop and work for real reform. The Church would be in far better shape today if more of that would have been done over the past 40 or so years.
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Rickwood
Guest
You are quite fortunate to have 12 parish’s within 30 minutes of your home.
I will admit I have heard a few shocking things in homilies. Maybe a half dozen shocking things in as many homilies over the past 20-25 years or so.
Just about every one was made by a visiting priest. Often a retired visiting priest.
To suggest one could hear “the most shocking things in homilies that contradicted both the Faith and Morals” in a dozen parishes within 30 minutes of their house doesn’t quite pass the smell test.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Because it hasn’t been your experience, it is therefore suspect on any count?
Anyone who lives in a large city or a predominantly Catholic area (Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Chicago, San Francisco, to give just a few examples,) can easily have a dozen parishes within a 30 minute drive.
Heck, there were a dozen parishes within a 30 minute drive for me in rural Vermont, thank you.
Further, these are usually in the same diocese. It isn’t surprising that if there is a ‘difficulty’ regarding abuse that it will be found in other parishes. Naming no names, but we are all aware of bishops (and may God watch over and guide and guard all our bishops and priests, and bless them) and priests who routinely have spoken in a heterodox manner on Church teaching.
The priests who are enthusiastic about women priests, gay rights including gay marriage, ‘intercommunion’, downplay Christ’s divinity and accent the "human end’ not just as ‘part’ but as the whole, and the ‘best’ part of Christ, counsel their flock that birth control is fine, premarital sex is all right if your conscience says so. . .You really think that this doesn’t happen? In Church, in the homily, and in the bulletins, and in the meetings of the councils, and down through the DRE (director of religious education) and thus to the children being instructed not in Catholic faith but in the ‘agenda’ that some think the Catholic faith ‘should be?’
I am very glad you have never encountered this phenomenon. It exists. It has been worse. . .no doubt there are places where it is still bad. . .I trust in my Church and I know the Church has never led anyone astray but sometimes its leaders and its ‘teachers’ have. To think that because you haven’t seen it that such tales are at best hysterical witch hunting from over scrupulous zanies and at worst deliberate attacks. . .is being both judgmental and short-sighted IMO.
At the very least you could acknowledge that if somebody says it, they at least believe it, and it is always possible even if you haven’t experienced it, and you could pray for all Catholics and indeed all people, instead of implying that all the problem is in the ‘person’ and he could not possibly be correct in his experience. . .because it isn’t your experience.
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