"Liberal" Double Standard on Subsidiarity?

[Michael_Forrest]

It seems to me that “liberals” in the Church typically embrace the Catholic principle of subsidiarity when it comes to ecclesial issues. They generally seem to want authority devolved to the lowest level, rather than having it centralized. But when it comes to secular government - like the recent healthcare debate for example - liberals seem to generally ignore Catholic teaching on subsidiarity and push aggressively for centralized control, instead. (While I dislike terms such as “liberal” and “conservative” inside the Church, they have a certain usefulness - this is why I put the terms in quotes.)

Here is the Church’s teaching on subsidiarity, in a nutshell (CCC 1883):

Excessive intervention by the state can threaten personal freedom and initiative. The teaching of the Church has elaborated the principle of subsidiarity, according to which ‘a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to co- ordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good’.

It seems to be a rather stark double standard to me on the part of “liberals”. Does it arise because liberals embrace Catholic teaching on subsidiarity only to the extent that it helps them accomplish their desired goals? Or is it something else?

The three articles below go into greater detail and should be read in order to gain a fuller understanding of the issue.

Just throwing this out for discussion.

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=6463

blog.acton.org/archives/16639-what-is-the-usccb’s-problem-with-subsidiarity.html

catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=572

 

[mpb74]

Yes there is a double standard.
“Liberals” and progressives truly believe they know better than everyone else. This is true inside our Church too.
If the power structure supports their personal view they will support and promote that structure. They do this irregardless of the structures proper authority. If the power structure teaches against their opinions, they default to their belief that that the impersonal structure just doesn’t get the negative personal effects their teaching causes.
They, being closer to the peolple, are much more “in touch” and therefore free to act on their own personal feelings. They know better.
Ideological honesty and consistency are not the strong suit of this type of political animal.

 

[Black_Rose]

Yes there is a double standard.
“Liberals” and progressives truly believe they know better than everyone else. This is true inside our Church too.
If the power structure supports their personal view they will support and promote that structure. They do this irregardless of the structures proper authority. If the power structure teaches against their opinions, they default to their belief that that the impersonal structure just doesn’t get the negative personal effects their teaching causes.
They, being closer to the peolple, are much more “in touch” and therefore free to act on their own personal feelings. They know better.
Ideological honesty and consistency are not the strong suit of this type of political animal.

How myopic!! What makes you think conservatives wouldn’t do the same if the power structure doesn’t support their personal view? How are (US) conservatives more consistent and intellectually honest?

 

[Christopher68]

Both Republicans and Democrats have double standards. You reference the term ‘subsidiarity’. I am quite familiar with this term, but I have never heard it used in a real life conversation. As someone who is basically a libertarian, I always look at the two major political parties in relation to their adherence to the Constitution, particularly the 9th and 10th Amendments. And very clearly, both political parties embrace these Amendments when it is convenient, and they ignore them when it is not. So in regards to the OP - by asking if there is a liberal double standard - if you are also implying that the ‘conservatives’ do not have a double standard as well, then you would be mistaken.

 

[Michael_Forrest]

Both Republicans and Democrats have double standards. You reference the term ‘subsidiarity’. I am quite familiar with this term, but I have never heard it used in a real life conversation. As someone who is basically a libertarian, I always look at the two major political parties in relation to their adherence to the Constitution, particularly the 9th and 10th Amendments. And very clearly, both political parties embrace these Amendments when it is convenient, and they ignore them when it is not. So in regards to the OP - by asking if there is a liberal double standard - if you are also implying that the ‘conservatives’ do not have a double standard as well, then you would be mistaken.

I wasn’t writing about “Republicans and Democrats”. You’ll notice that neither word appears in the original post. I was writing about “liberal” Catholics. The focus is on Catholicism/Catholics, not political parties.

In my experience, Conservative/Traditionalist type Catholics tend to embrace the teachings of the Church in principle and in practice much more consistently than liberal Catholics do. Liberal Catholics often seem to have a different fundamental compass that drives their decision making, in my opinion. And the teaching of the Church sometimes seems to be just a tool that they may draw upon if they feel it helps their underlying goals - or jettisoned/ignored equally freely if they feel it is getting in the way.

Others may disagree with that, of course. But I’m interested in the discussion particularly as it applies to the Catholic teaching on subsidiarity. There seems to be a clear double standard in that case, in my opinion.

 

[tafan]

Besides the issue of abortion, I think the total disregard for the principle of subsidiarity is the reason why I can never vote for a democrat and why political liberal seem so anti-thetical to me.
As to your quesiton, I have found it is not always wise to assume liberals in the church are also liberals politically. But in general, you are wrong. Liberals in the church are the most dictatorial people in the church. They want the churh to control everything from above, they just want it controlled in a “progressive” fashion. They cannot really see this now, sense they haven’t had a pope they have liked in 30 years, but it is the case. If you happen to be from a diocese with a liberal Bishop, you will find them quite willing to ignore the princile of subsidiarity on liturgical issues when it will be decided their way.

 

[Michael_Forrest]

But in general, you are wrong. Liberals in the church are the most dictatorial people in the church. They want the churh to control everything from above, they just want it controlled in a “progressive” fashion. They cannot really see this now, sense they haven’t had a pope they have liked in 30 years, but it is the case. If you happen to be from a diocese with a liberal Bishop, you will find them quite willing to ignore the princile of subsidiarity on liturgical issues when it will be decided their way.

Hello Tafan,

I missed your reply previously. But I think you missed this in my original post:

It seems to be a rather stark double standard to me on the part of “liberals” (in regard to subsidiarity). Does it arise because liberals embrace Catholic teaching on subsidiarity only to the extent that it helps them accomplish their desired goals?