Liberal vs conservative

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LatinCat:
If you really believe that, then you are really not Catholic. Why do you care if abortions are rare or not? Do you believe them to be evil? If you believe them to be evil, why do you believe them to be evil? Do you believe abortion is the killing of an innocent person? That would make it murder. Murder should never be legal. The pro choice position is so absurd, it would be laughable if the matter were not so grave. It is even more absurd when a person who believes in God is pro-choice. You believe in the author of life, yet you believe that man should be able to destroy the most innocent of human lives. That is just insane.
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I believe a person should be able to voice their opinion on this forum w/o getting flamed by someone who doesn’t happen to agree with him.

He sounds like a medical professional who disagrees with abortion, except in the case when the mother’s life is in danger. This is a position, that many people happen to agree with. As a medical professional, when an abortion is accomplished as a last resort, he is concerned it is done safely.

Cut the guy a break! BTW, if a pro-choice person ripped you to shreds for your position, I’d defend your rights as well.

It also is not up to you to judge his sincerity of faith.
 
I guess abortion is more of a subject than the one I originally proposed. Abortion was just an unfortunate choice of examples to describe my premis.
 
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bobcat:
I guess abortion is more of a subject than the one I originally proposed. Abortion was just an unfortunate choice of examples to describe my premis.
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Abortion is a very hot and passionate topic. It get folks excited in a hurry.
 
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mikew262:
Abortion is a very hot and passionate topic. It get folks excited in a hurry.
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Of course it does. The murdering of a child for any reason is horrible and it is murder.

Health of the mother has now been allowed to encompass stress for goodness sake. Why don’t you give some concrete examples of how aborting a child is going to help the life and health of the mother?
 
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goofyjim:
The regular poor may be capable of more but we still need welfare and medicaid for the disabled because everyone still seems afraid to hire them and they certainly need some sustenance. Or they may not be capable of full time employment and the government subsidies will help them to live a mildly comfortable existence.
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The government has no business ‘subsidizing’ any ones life, regardless of how bad off they might be. The Church, and other charities, may help the poor, but the gov’t should never become a nanny. Socialism does not work.
 
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Isidore_AK:
The government has no business ‘subsidizing’ any ones life, regardless of how bad off they might be. The Church, and other charities, may help the poor, but the gov’t should never become a nanny. Socialism does not work.
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That sad thing is that society doesn’t realize that welfare doesn’t work. People were far better off and got back on their feet when the institutions, such as the Church, ran the charitable programs.
 
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bear06:
Of course it does. The murdering of a child for any reason is horrible and it is murder.

Health of the mother has now been allowed to encompass stress for goodness sake. Why don’t you give some concrete examples of how aborting a child is going to help the life and health of the mother?
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Why are you asking me?
 
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bear06:
That sad thing is that society doesn’t realize that welfare doesn’t work. People were far better off and got back on their feet when the institutions, such as the Church, ran the charitable programs.
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I suspect this is true. However, back in the Depression, the govt did establish the Civilian Conservation Corps which put out of work folks to work building national parks and similiar things. It really wasn’t a welfare program per say, the govt did get some payback on it.
 
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bobcat:
My point about all of this is that we must be mindful of God when making these kinds of statements.How can we care about people and not heed the word of God? Does anyone understand this? Am I making myself clear. I would like to say this to people who use this argument, but no one seems to understand this concept.
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Yes. Unfortunately, people have gone off on a tangent regarding your example, rather than discussing the schizophrenia of the “liberal” position.

Have you read any of Ann Coulter’s books? She has a talent for pointing out “liberals” inconsistencies.

The Church also has much to say in the area of authentic social justice, which would be an excellent starting point when trying to gather your thoughts on where the “liberal” agenda goes wrong with their ideas.

By “liberal” I am assuming you mean politically – ie, many of the planks in the Democratic Party platform. There are other uses of the term “liberal”… for example those in the Church who dissent form moral teachings, etc.
 
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Isidore_AK:
The government has no business ‘subsidizing’ any ones life, regardless of how bad off they might be. The Church, and other charities, may help the poor, but the gov’t should never become a nanny. Socialism does not work.
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Is the church able to provide the medicine that the disabled need? I doubt it. This is where medicaid comes in. This is practicality not socialism.
 
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1ke:
Yes. Unfortunately, people have gone off on a tangent regarding your example, rather than discussing the schizophrenia of the “liberal” position.

Have you read any of Ann Coulter’s books? She has a talent for pointing out “liberals” inconsistencies.

The Church also has much to say in the area of authentic social justice, which would be an excellent starting point when trying to gather your thoughts on where the “liberal” agenda goes wrong with their ideas.

By “liberal” I am assuming you mean politically – ie, many of the planks in the Democratic Party platform. There are other uses of the term “liberal”… for example those in the Church who dissent form moral teachings, etc.
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I grow weary of the terms we use here. I condsider myself conservative but suffer from a psychiatric disability which can be treated by medicine. It is not some liberal idea to have medicaid to assist in paying for those medications because far too often there are no employers who will cover a preexisting condition and one should not have to spend all their money on what’s necessary. I believe we can still keep a safety net for situations like this without becoming a socialist nation.
 
Okay here’s a solution. Pass legislation that no matter what job a disabled person goes to his condition will be covered no questions asked by the medical insurance. This puts it out of the government pockets but still keeps the disabled from the poorhouse.
 
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goofyjim:
I grow weary of the terms we use here. I condsider myself conservative but suffer from a psychiatric disability which can be treated by medicine. It is not some liberal idea to have medicaid to assist in paying for those medications because far too often there are no employers who will cover a preexisting condition and one should not have to spend all their money on what’s necessary. I believe we can still keep a safety net for situations like this without becoming a socialist nation.
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The medical rhealm is a whole other story. Actually, charitable organizations should be able to help with funding on this too. The malpractice lawsuits, insurance, etc. are the majority of the problem in the medical world. The research is not nearly as costly to our outrageous medical costs.
 
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goofyjim:
Okay here’s a solution. Pass legislation that no matter what job a disabled person goes to his condition will be covered no questions asked by the medical insurance. This puts it out of the government pockets but still keeps the disabled from the poorhouse.
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Yikes
 
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mikew262:
I believe a person should be able to voice their opinion on this forum w/o getting flamed by someone who doesn’t happen to agree with him.

He sounds like a medical professional who disagrees with abortion, except in the case when the mother’s life is in danger. This is a position, that many people happen to agree with. As a medical professional, when an abortion is accomplished as a last resort, he is concerned it is done safely.

Cut the guy a break! BTW, if a pro-choice person ripped you to shreds for your position, I’d defend your rights as well.

It also is not up to you to judge his sincerity of faith.
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Give me a break. The Catholic Church teaches that a Catholic must be against abortion. To be pro-choice is contrary to the teachings of the Church. It is heresy. It is also a position that suggests that one in is in a schismatic state because to be pro-choice is to refuse to submitt to the Roman Pontiff in this matter. Pope Pius XII wrote the encyclical “Mystici Corporis Christi” which states that to be in heresy or schism is to be severed from the Church. Thus a person who is pro-choice is no Catholic at all. This has nothing to do with flaming. This is not an emotional matter. It is a rational conclusion.
 
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bear06:
The medical rhealm is a whole other story. Actually, charitable organizations should be able to help with funding on this too. The malpractice lawsuits, insurance, etc. are the majority of the problem in the medical world. The research is not nearly as costly to our outrageous medical costs.
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Actually the pharmaceuticals were more willing to give out free medicine before the big medicare takeover. Yet even there they only did it while there was a patent on their medicine. Once generics were available they stopped the support.

The churches would also be overburdened providing housing, clothing, medicine and evrything else to the poor. We can be conservative but let’s not throw compassion out the window.:banghead:
 
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goofyjim:
Is the church able to provide the medicine that the disabled need? I doubt it. This is where medicaid comes in. This is practicality not socialism.
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But the system is unjust. The government forcefully takes away part of one person’s income to pay for another’s needs. That is immoral. However, Christ blesses the person who FREELY CHOOSES to help those in need.
 
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goofyjim:
Actually the pharmaceuticals were more willing to give out free medicine before the big medicare takeover. Yet even there they only did it while there was a patent on their medicine. Once generics were available they stopped the support.

The churches would also be overburdened providing housing, clothing, medicine and evrything else to the poor. We can be conservative but let’s not throw compassion out the window.:banghead:
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The Church managed before but like eveyone else, we’ve all come to rely on the government. There was a time when people actually tithed to Catholic charitable organizations. Now we are forced to “tithe” to the government. They have effectively taken away our will to help our fellow man.
 
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