Liberalism in the Catholic Church

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Shiphrae

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Hi everyone,
I am having trouble dealing with the fact that there seems to be so little understanding in my area for people who want to get past the cofortable, easy-going catholicism that exists. Since I started watching EWTN, I find that we are surrounded with liberal catholics. The idea seems to be that working for a few common problems such as the environment and poverty is all that is needed. My husband and I for the last few years had been members of a parish that now I find is so far from traditional catholicism. We were members of the Stephen Ministry in the parish. Much of the time I found the meetings discouraging. Even the leaders expressed thoughts about there being no difference between catholics and other christians. When I brought up issues that I thought needed to be discussed, I was hushed. No one seemed to want to face the fact of problems existing.
Now in my own family, I am getting the same response.
I posted my thoughts in an ‘ask a sister’ forum and got an angry response. I got told that if I am looking for the perfect church, I should wait until I am 6 feet under. The sister said that there is no perfect church on this earth. I believe this is wrong. The One True Church led by the Holy Spirit IS perfect. People working in the Church make mistakes when they act without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I find it frustrating that there are so few people who are looking for more and better ways to follow the faith.
Are there any other people who have encountered the same difficulties? And what should one do about it?
Love in Jesus Christ
Shiphrae:)
 
You are not alone. CAF is full of threads that discuss this issue. Many are discouraged and some even depressed over the condition of our Church. When I returned after a 25 year absence, I was shocked at the changes and it has taken me four years to find even one Parish in my diocese that supports ALL the Church teaching, not just the one’s that are politically correct or trendy. I won’t even get into the miserable condition of the liturgy!

A dear friend, and fellow CAF poster suggested that if one wishes to find others who embrace the whole Church and her teachings, working for the Pro-Life cause should satisfy that yearning. Most folks who get involved in this way have already illustrated that they are willing to be completely counter-cultural in proclaiming their message. They know how to pray and are not afraid of doing it in public! They are generally pretty well versed in their faith and display an “on fire for God” energy that will inspire.

If you do not find your current Parish supportive of orthodox Church teaching, I suggest you keep searching for one that is. I believe (and Fr. Groeschel backs this up!) that only when we stop supporting the Parishes that obfuscate the truth will we see any real change. If a Pastor sees that his Church is empty week after week, he may begin to pray and reflect on the reasons.
 
LOL My daughter, granddaughter and I wear skirts or dresses to Mass. My husband SIL and their boys wear nice slacks with button shirts and jackets when needed. When we were described to the new music director the church secretary said we were the “Amish” family. The poor man thought we drove a buggy to Mass.

But for the most part I have noticed that if someone is a (Traditional Conservative Catholic) TCC the more liberal people tend to avoid us or snicker behind our backs when they don’t take the time to know us. Once they know us they just tend to look upon us as “odd”.
 
With the modern world many become to lazy to care the way they should for the church. Out with the old in with the new they say now. Got to make mass fun even if it turns away the traditional Catholics. Earlier this year when I was 8th grade I had a real liberal Sunday school teacher. Last thing a bunch of early teens need is a liberal teacher. I had to be the only one to defend the churches teachings. And even still the kids and the teacher were hounding on me, (well priest should be able to get married). I read verses from the bible that say otherwise and for a good while the church allowed it but then it created problems. Their answer, (well times have changed and the church has fewer priests). Well, I said, why don’t we legalize marijuana. Then we will have less people breaking that law.
 
“**Well, I said, why don’t we legalize marijuana. Then we will have less people breaking that law.”(**stringbeanduck)

Congratulations! Great answer! And maybe we should legalize murder and theft. There would be even less people breaking the law.

It’s wonderful that you stood up for the Church.
 
stringbeanduck said:
With the modern world many become to lazy to care the way they should for the church. Out with the old in with the new they say now. Got to make mass fun even if it turns away the traditional Catholics. Earlier this year when I was 8th grade I had a real liberal Sunday school teacher. Last thing a bunch of early teens need is a liberal teacher. I had to be the only one to defend the churches teachings. And even still the kids and the teacher were hounding on me, (well priest should be able to get married). I read verses from the bible that say otherwise and for a good while the church allowed it but then it created problems. Their answer, (well times have changed and the church has fewer priests). Well, I said, why don’t we legalize marijuana. Then we will have less people breaking that law.
Click to expand...
Way to go. Where you been? Hope this homeschool year is going well.
 
stringbeanduck said:
With the modern world many become to lazy to care the way they should for the church. Out with the old in with the new they say now. Got to make mass fun even if it turns away the traditional Catholics. Earlier this year when I was 8th grade I had a real liberal Sunday school teacher. Last thing a bunch of early teens need is a liberal teacher. I had to be the only one to defend the churches teachings. And even still the kids and the teacher were hounding on me, (well priest should be able to get married). I read verses from the bible that say otherwise and for a good while the church allowed it but then it created problems. Their answer, (well times have changed and the church has fewer priests). Well, I said, why don’t we legalize marijuana. Then we will have less people breaking that law.
Click to expand...
Great on you. It takes a lot of courage to be able to stand up for what the Church really teaches, especially when most of those around you either don’t care or vehemently demand the Church to “get with the times.” I sometimes find myself doing the same thing in RCIA.
 
My faith has to remain constant, even if the world becomes lax…or changes…so you could indeed say im a traditionalist.

Im new here at the forums and still learning the ropes,but I perfer to ‘hang out’ with the ‘tradtionalist’ Catholics. It just seems that the un-changing word of Christ, and the beauty of the age old tradtions of our beautiful faith ,are indeed perfered by some of us ‘old fogeys’ , 🙂 (and im only 51 ! )

Gods blessing be with all my Catholic sisters and brothers this day, even the less traditonal ones ,👍

Michael *of Virginia
 
Shiphrae said:
Hi everyone,
I am having trouble dealing with the fact that there seems to be so little understanding in my area for people who want to get past the cofortable, easy-going catholicism that exists. Since I started watching EWTN, I find that we are surrounded with liberal catholics. The idea seems to be that working for a few common problems such as the environment and poverty is all that is needed. My husband and I for the last few years had been members of a parish that now I find is so far from traditional catholicism. We were members of the Stephen Ministry in the parish. Much of the time I found the meetings discouraging. Even the leaders expressed thoughts about there being no difference between catholics and other christians. When I brought up issues that I thought needed to be discussed, I was hushed. No one seemed to want to face the fact of problems existing.
Now in my own family, I am getting the same response.
I posted my thoughts in an ‘ask a sister’ forum and got an angry response. I got told that if I am looking for the perfect church, I should wait until I am 6 feet under. The sister said that there is no perfect church on this earth. I believe this is wrong. The One True Church led by the Holy Spirit IS perfect. People working in the Church make mistakes when they act without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I find it frustrating that there are so few people who are looking for more and better ways to follow the faith.
Are there any other people who have encountered the same difficulties? And what should one do about it?
Love in Jesus Christ
Shiphrae:)
Click to expand...
Yes, and you’ll encounter it even more on this site. PRAY, PRAY, PRAY! For me at my parish (and in my family) nothing else works. Remain a faithful and beautiful example of what true Catholicism is, pray, and people will be drawn to that. Ask for the intercession of the missionary Saints and Martyrs. God Bless.
 
stringbeanduck said:
With the modern world many become to lazy to care the way they should for the church. Out with the old in with the new they say now. Got to make mass fun even if it turns away the traditional Catholics. Earlier this year when I was 8th grade I had a real liberal Sunday school teacher. Last thing a bunch of early teens need is a liberal teacher. I had to be the only one to defend the churches teachings. And even still the kids and the teacher were hounding on me, (well priest should be able to get married). I read verses from the bible that say otherwise and for a good while the church allowed it but then it created problems. Their answer, (well times have changed and the church has fewer priests). Well, I said, why don’t we legalize marijuana. Then we will have less people breaking that law.
Click to expand...
I don’t know what answer you gave them, but I would have told them that the Catholic Church has had married priests since the beginning; that the Latin rite decided a long time ago that it would have only celibate priests, and that even the Latin rite has some married priests.

That would have been truthful, it would not have been liberal, it probably would have answered their questions, and it would not have gone back to what sort of sounds in your post like a parent answering “Because I said so”. One does not have to be liberal to answer questions like that. Sorry, I don’t like your analogy, and I think an honest, constructive answer that respects their intellignece can be made that is not a “liberal” answer. Being married is really not analogous to smoking pot.
 
stringbeanduck said:
With the modern world many become to lazy to care the way they should for the church. Out with the old in with the new they say now. Got to make mass fun even if it turns away the traditional Catholics. Earlier this year when I was 8th grade I had a real liberal Sunday school teacher. Last thing a bunch of early teens need is a liberal teacher. I had to be the only one to defend the churches teachings. And even still the kids and the teacher were hounding on me, (well priest should be able to get married). I read verses from the bible that say otherwise and for a good while the church allowed it but then it created problems. Their answer, (well times have changed and the church has fewer priests). Well, I said, why don’t we legalize marijuana. Then we will have less people breaking that law.
Click to expand...
I don’t know what answer you gave them, but I would have told them that the Catholic Church has had married priests since the beginning; that the Latin rite decided a long time ago that it would have only celibate priests, and that even the Latin rite has some married priests.

That would have been truthful, it would not have been liberal, it probably would have answered their questions, and it would not have gone back to what sort of sounds in your post like a parent answering “Because I said so”. One does not have to be liberal to answer questions like that. Sorry, I don’t like your analogy, and I think an honest, constructive answer that respects their intelligence can be made that is not a “liberal” answer. Being married is really not analogous to smoking pot.
 
otjm said:
I don’t know what answer you gave them, but I would have told them that the Catholic Church has had married priests since the beginning; that the Latin rite decided a long time ago that it would have only celibate priests, and that even the Latin rite has some married priests.

That would have been truthful, it would not have been liberal, it probably would have answered their questions, and it would not have gone back to what sort of sounds in your post like a parent answering “Because I said so”. One does not have to be liberal to answer questions like that. Sorry, I don’t like your analogy, and I think an honest, constructive answer that respects their intellignece can be made that is not a “liberal” answer. Being married is really not analogous to smoking pot.
Click to expand...
Well, you have a good point, but this a young person in grade eight, I believe. He or she was in Sunday school. Surely the teacher should not have been talking with the children against the laws of the Church. It seems to me that the young person was only defending the Church.
 
Well of course being married has nothing to do with smoking pot. That’s not the point. Maybe you don’t get it. I’ll break it down a little. To solve our problems why don’t we take the easy way out and legalize marijuana. That way we won’t have those people in jail or breaking that law; which relates to letting priest get married. The idea of letting priest get married is to solve the problem of having so few priests.
 
Did I not just type that they use to allow priests to get married? Please read through the post carefully before reply
I read verses from the bible that say otherwise and for a good while the church allowed it but then it created problems.
Click to expand...
that was my answer along with how it would distract them from the call and how a man should not be divided between the church and his family, and more.
 
Shiphrae said:
Hi everyone,
I am having trouble dealing with the fact that there seems to be so little understanding in my area for people who want to get past the cofortable, easy-going catholicism that exists. Since I started watching EWTN, I find that we are surrounded with liberal catholics. The idea seems to be that working for a few common problems such as the environment and poverty is all that is needed. My husband and I for the last few years had been members of a parish that now I find is so far from traditional catholicism. We were members of the Stephen Ministry in the parish. Much of the time I found the meetings discouraging. Even the leaders expressed thoughts about there being no difference between catholics and other christians. When I brought up issues that I thought needed to be discussed, I was hushed. No one seemed to want to face the fact of problems existing.
Now in my own family, I am getting the same response.
I posted my thoughts in an ‘ask a sister’ forum and got an angry response. I got told that if I am looking for the perfect church, I should wait until I am 6 feet under. The sister said that there is no perfect church on this earth. I believe this is wrong. The One True Church led by the Holy Spirit IS perfect. People working in the Church make mistakes when they act without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I find it frustrating that there are so few people who are looking for more and better ways to follow the faith.
Are there any other people who have encountered the same difficulties? And what should one do about it?
Love in Jesus Christ
Shiphrae:)
Click to expand...
I find it is sort of split. I use a headcover…I often get comments or stares. Not sure if they are curious or if I actually look that odd. Once I asked a fellow parishioner if they knew of anyone that has showed an interest in the Tridentine Mass and they actually said why don’t you just go to the Spanish Mass. :eek: I suppose they meant that because it was in Spanish one couldn’t understand it anymore then if it was in Latin. Rather humiliated I didn’t have a response. 😊

The best I can do in my parish is attend the Vigil Mass. Which is more conservation and we have a wonderful Gregorian Schola. The closest Traditional Mass is a overnite stay away; and I don’t go often.
 
stringbeanduck said:
Well of course being married has nothing to do with smoking pot. That’s not the point. Maybe you don’t get it. I’ll break it down a little. To solve our problems why don’t we take the easy way out and legalize marijuana. That way we won’t have those people in jail or breaking that law; which relates to letting priest get married. The idea of letting priest get married is to solve the problem of having so few priests.
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No, you don’t get it. I’ll break it down. We already ordain married men. It is not violating a law, as it is being done here and now. It is not an easy way out like legalizing marijuana. That is a poor answer.

You had an opportunity to speak about the value of celibacy, and how possibly men married to women might find that they (the women) don’t want to be a priest’s wife, and how that might not really solve the probelm of too few priests, because a married priest would have a family to take care of and would not be as available to a parish… there were lots of things you could have said that actually might have been relevant. It was a teaching moment; 8th grade kids are not stupid or slow.

Further, in the history of the Church, we have not had priests getting married, but rather we have had married men getting ordained. Another significant distinction that could have been made.
 
Shiphrae said:
Well, you have a good point, but this a young person in grade eight, I believe. He or she was in Sunday school. Surely the teacher should not have been talking with the children against the laws of the Church. It seems to me that the young person was only defending the Church.
Click to expand...
(sigh) got it; I had the situation flipped.
 
Shiphrae said:
Hi everyone,
I am having trouble dealing with the fact that there seems to be so little understanding in my area for people who want to get past the cofortable, easy-going catholicism that exists. Since I started watching EWTN, I find that we are surrounded with liberal catholics. The idea seems to be that working for a few common problems such as the environment and poverty is all that is needed. My husband and I for the last few years had been members of a parish that now I find is so far from traditional catholicism. We were members of the Stephen Ministry in the parish. Much of the time I found the meetings discouraging. Even the leaders expressed thoughts about there being no difference between catholics and other christians. When I brought up issues that I thought needed to be discussed, I was hushed. No one seemed to want to face the fact of problems existing.
Now in my own family, I am getting the same response.
I posted my thoughts in an ‘ask a sister’ forum and got an angry response. I got told that if I am looking for the perfect church, I should wait until I am 6 feet under. The sister said that there is no perfect church on this earth. I believe this is wrong. The One True Church led by the Holy Spirit IS perfect. People working in the Church make mistakes when they act without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I find it frustrating that there are so few people who are looking for more and better ways to follow the faith.
Are there any other people who have encountered the same difficulties? And what should one do about it?
Love in Jesus Christ
Shiphrae:)
Click to expand...
The wheat will always grow with the tares. Read the Saints from previous eras. They always lament that the majority of people are worldly and don’t even have any love for God. If we look at Scripture, we see prophecies of the immense size of the Church on earth, but we also are given warnings that seem to tell us that only few will be saved. Are we to expect our era to be any better?

Whatever you do, don’t be like those who Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich foresaw and warned about who, “passed on in disgust at the wounds of His Church, as the Levite passed the poor man who had fallen among the robbers. Like unto cowardly and faithless children, who desert their mother in the middle of the night at the sight of thieves and robbers, they fled from His wounded Spouse.”

Rather than indulge the temptation to separate yourself in contempt from poor sinners, pray and do penance for them with holy compassion. Keep fighting the good fight with all patience and courage, trusting in God’s Holy Will. He has placed you where you are for a reason. Let the sparks and embers from the flame of divine love leap from you and inflame others. And don’t get discouraged if you receive rebukes or even persecutions from others, rather treat them with charity, thus heaping hot coals upon their heads.

As St. Pius X said, “Who will prevent us from hoping that the flame of Christian charity may dispel the darkness from their minds and bring to them light and the peace of God? It may be that the fruit of our labors may be slow in coming, but charity wearies not with waiting, knowing that God prepares His rewards not for the results of toil but for the good will shown in it.”

🙂
 
there were lots of things you could have said that actually might have been relevant. It was a teaching moment; 8th grade kids are not stupid or slow.
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Hey OTJM, that quote about marijuana was not the only thing I said to explain celibacy and why priests should not marry. See here, I don’t like to write long posts so I shortened all what happened during those 2 Sundays. Had I known this misunderstanding was gonna happen in the forum I would have said everything. I did, in fact, give much better reasons than the marijuana example. I was being a bit sarcastic with that example.

This teacher of mine brings up ‘the priests being married’ issue. He says, “Guys, today we are going to talk about the call to priesthood.” And for a good while he does fine until he says, “They can’t be married.” So a girl asks, “Why, what’s so important about that.” Another kid says, “Yeah that could help the shortage of priests.” The teacher says, “It might change it in the future.” He is all for priests marrying. I say, “Well I believe it should stay the same.” So all the kids who were paying attention chime in and start questioning me why I believe it should stay the way it is. And look here, I’m not the smartest person on celibacy so I say what I know. Time has run out and I haven’t had my last say yet. So I say, “Lets bring this back up next week by then I’ll have more to say.” So the teacher says alright we will debate about it next week. This guy wants me alone to debate him and the other 11 kids who are all for priest getting married.

After being challenged on my beliefs of celibacy and priests, I wrote a three page speech, with my parents’ approval, that gives many references to celibacy and quotes from the Bible that gives many indications for celibacy. I explain that a priest can’t have two masters (dedication to the church vs. dedication to a wife and family). Please don’t make me have to retype my whole speech so you can read it. And YES I did write about how the church still, right now, allows married men ministers from other denominations (for instance: married Lutheran ministers who want to convert to Catholic priesthood) who want to become a Catholic priest. They do that since the church is against divorce.

So I come next with my speech ready and he comes ready to debate me. Team 1 was the teacher and 11 kids. Team 2 was 1 kid, that kid being me. So I say, “Look this is not gonna happen full ‘debate’ style. I said how about I read my speech and you can have a rebuttal. He says, “Sure.”

After I read aloud my speech he and 11 other kids start shouting questions at me. I will not repeat their rebuttal. But it was like 12 lions going after a lamb. I came there to learn and I was challenged instead including by my teacher. One of the only things I learned that Sunday school year was to defend what I believe without backing down. This event happened earlier this year around February I believe. Since then I have made my Confirmation and fortified my views with unwavering resolve. I am now in 9th grade. Maybe 8th graders are not slow and stupid but there sure is a lot who aren’t well religiously educated. Why? Probably since the teacher was not fitted for the job. Btw, I also gave my speech for my parish priest to read and he was proud of me for writing it.
 
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