"Liberalism is a Sin"

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Be careful judging conservatives by reading some postings on the internet. We all need more charity and humility.

Should non-Catholics judge the Church based on their experiences with some Catholics? Should Catholics base their opinions of non-Catholics based on their experience with some “born agains”?

On the political front, are conservatives all greedy? Are liberals all God-hating socialists?

We should always seek Truth. Unfortunately, being on the side of Truth may force us to spend some time with ugly.

God bless you in your journey,

Robert.
 
Adam,

If you could name a “turning point” - what would it be?
Was it a particular church teaching you were wrestling with?
Or was it a particular theologian?
Or was this a gradual process - straw by straw?

Regarding Raymond Brown - I started a thread a few months ago on Brown. I noticed that our young seminarians who studied Brown usually referred to Brown to support dissenting views.
Some posters thought Brown’s work was being misused by the dissenters - who took his work out of context, but also misused by conservatives who criticized his work without understanding his premise.

If it is true that “study” brings one to heresy - then why is the Church full of learned men who remain faithful?

Your questions regarding God seem so focused on the negative.
What about questions such as this…

-Does God exist?
-Does He love us?
-Has He revealed this love to us?
-Was Jesus truly the Son of God?
-What did His sacrifice truly accomplish?
-Did He leave behind a visible Church with a visible leader?
-Does this Church exist today?

Regarding hell - isn’t hell the product of free will?
God won’t force himself upon us. Hell is the absence of God. Those who choose to reject God have a place where He is absent.

Limbo - I have seen discussions on this and it isn’t clear that this ever became official Church teaching - correct?
My understanding is that it is a theory that has been discussed - but never defined?
 
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amarischuk:
He wrote lots of other books which are small and cheap and our rebellious pastor use to put in the back of Church, with the National Catholic Reporter, etc. And Brown was also an editor of the Jerome Biblical Commentary, found in most Church libraries.
And your arguments against him are what? You haven’t provided a single example. The only example was provided by myself and I showed how his position that the priesthood is not explicit in the New Testament shows that he wasn’t a sola scripturalist.
He changed apostolic Tradition from being God’s word to being the “lived experience of the people”, He constantly belittled Church teaching and praised Protestant biblical scholarship, which by the way denies that the bread and wine become the real, actualy body, blood soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, who can be adored and worshipped. Just think, thousands of these superior biblical scholars and they can’t even seem to understand the Eucharist, despite the best and most technically advanced “modern biblical exegesis.” Perhaps they should have learned from Clement of Rome, who never even had a new testament. Why did he know this teaching, and why did all the other early Christians know this teaching, while brilliant Protestant biblical scholars who spend years and years studing don’t? Because basic Church teachings DO NOT COME FROM THE BIBLE. They come from the apostles who handed them down in apostolic Tradition.
You obviuosly do not know the Thomistic view of limbo. Limbo is merely the highest level of hell. Didn’t God teach you that truth about Catholic while you were busy praying?
The Church does not teach limbo is the highest level of hell.
The opinions of various theologians are not Church teachings, but only opinions.
The Church does teach that at the end of the world all will be judged and go to heaven or hell, and since no one goes to hell through no fault of their own, those in limbo will end up in heaven.
Your entire argument is faulty. First you say that I cannot learn the truth about catholicism without prayer (which is a illuminati-gnostic bunch of BS which kills classic Thomism, but you have no qualms about abandoning Catholic philosophy to support your ultra-conservative, anti-intelletual views).
 
You cannot learn it well without error. Even a little old lady who prays the rosary will have less errors about basic Church teaching than you. You may know more Church teaching, but you will also be misled by much more error.
Again, this is basic Church teaching. Sin blinds us to the truth. This is Church teaching. Since we need prayer to overcome sin, it is impossible to understand basic Church teachings without error without constant prayer.
Psalms 25:8
“Good and upright is the LORD;
therefore he instructs sinners in
the way.
9 He leads the humble in what is
right, and** teaches the humble his
way.”**
Only a proud Catholic who thinks he does not need God’s grace will refuse to pray the Rosary daily. I know, I was one. And God will not instruct the proud. We have to admit to God that we are dumb and stupid, and ask for His grace constantly. Then we will begin to learn.
So I show that I did live a life of devout prayer and study. So now you say that I obviously wasn’t praying well enough or for the right things because doubts crept in.
Code:
 Doubts creep in even with the saints, who pray far more than you or I.  But eventually God's grace will show us the truth, as long as we keep praying. .  The problem comes when we quit praying.
Because the devil never quits
and our sinful drives toward pride, lust, greed, envy, anger, gluttony and sloth NEVER QUIT,
our prayers must never quit.
Father Mitch Paqwa on EWTN once said that he has talked to many Catholic priests who left the priesthood. He said EVERY ONE said things started going downhill when they quit praying.
How am I to know that you are the one who has led the proper life of prayer? Perhaps it is the devil leading you astray by preventing the workings of the Holy Spirit in his Church? The argument cuts both ways.
Code:
 I haven't  led the proper life of prayer. I started out bad, and it was only through the prayers of others that God pushed  me  to start praying and going to mass.  It was only when I started praying the Rosary that I began to understand Church teaching. And it is only through God's grace at daily mass that I can have a reasonable control over my sins, especially anger. If I miss 2 days, then anyone near me better watchout when my anger takes over.
Actually, I seem to recall reading that Jesus never said to follow what the Church (by which you mean the magisterum) teaches but rather to sell ones’ cloak and follow him.
He said both. He said to the leaders of His Church, “he who hears you, hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me.”
“if he will not listen to the Church, let him be as a pagan or tax collector.” He told the authorities He appointed to preach the Gospel to all nations. “he who does not believe will be condemned” Thus, if we don’t believe what the Church preaches, we will be condemned. He does not say, “if he does not believe Raymond Brown, we will be condmened.”
He also said, “if he will not listen to the Church, let him be as a pagan or tax collector” meaning that those who don’t listen to the Church should be considered as no longer Christian.
I was taught never to get into an argument with a fool because spectators might not be able to tell who was who. If you continue with your ad hominem attacks on me for supposedly not praying and on Catholic scholarship in general, I will simply refuse to respond. You are only securing my views that conservative Catholicism is anti-intellectual, reactionary, fundamentalist ignorance. You are doing a great disservice to the Church.
Adam
Code:
 I am not attacking you, but your ideas in which you say the Church was superstitious, ignorant, full of  error, etc.
And you know good and well you are not praying the Rosary daily. Poeple who pray the Rosary will never get misled by the errors of Raymond Brown, or by any others who promote heresy. It does no good to say you once prayed the Rosary and went to daily mass. We need to never give up. The Church recommends praying the Rosary unceasingly. The Pope does so, because he knows he needs God’s grace unceasingly, even though he is brilliant. The Church highly, highly recommends daily mass. This is because the devil never sleeps, and our fallen human nature has the constant drives of pride, lust, greed, envy, anger, sloth, and gluttony. Thus, as soon as we stop praying, pride comes and and blinds us to the truth, and others sins make us forget about God, and thus we become religously stupid.
 
Walter,

Post #34 on this thread give a link to the entire book online.
 
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