Liberalism To The Point Of Insanity

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E_Pluribus_Unum

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At what point, does one remove themselves from a parish when the apparent movement, regardless of the number of attempts made, is one which blatantly goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Liturgical abuses.
Eucharistic abuses.
RCIA inaccuracies.

I am not afraid of a standing up for what is right, but if the liberals are the majority or at the very least, in the positions to drive the parish direction, when should one opt to make a change?
 
E_Pluribus_Unum said:
At what point, does one remove themselves from a parish when the apparent movement, regardless of the number of attempts made, is one which blatantly goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Liturgical abuses.
Eucharistic abuses.
RCIA inaccuracies.

I am not afraid of a standing up for what is right, but if the liberals are the majority or at the very least, in the positions to drive the parish direction, when should one opt to make a change?
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It would be extremely ignorant to equate all the problems you list with “liberalism.”

The fact that you misuse the term “liberals” and “liberalism” the way that you do says a great deal negative…
 
I guess you would have to know the exact situation to make an accurate assessment.
 
SenorBells said:
It would be extremely ignorant to equate all the problems you list with “liberalism.”

The fact that you misuse the term “liberals” and “liberalism” the way that you do says a great deal negative…
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Well, since a great number of the problems that we face today in the Church are the fruit of liberal, modernistic, and revisionist thinking and influences… I think he is accurate in making that statement. The issues that he brought up are generally seen as the result of liberal innovations and agendas.

My .02
 
E_Pluribus_Unum said:
At what point, does one remove themselves from a parish when the apparent movement, regardless of the number of attempts made, is one which blatantly goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Liturgical abuses.
Eucharistic abuses.
RCIA inaccuracies.

I am not afraid of a standing up for what is right, but if the liberals are the majority or at the very least, in the positions to drive the parish direction, when should one opt to make a change?
Click to expand...
Wonder if you wouldn’t mind elaborating a tad so that we might get a handle on what’s going on?
 
NO problem.

A little surpised by the Senor Bell Response.

Anyway, we have a very liberal minded Priest as well as a hefty following of people which are like minded.

Some simple but very upsetting examples:
  1. We put the blood of our savior in glass chalices at mass.
  2. When going through the RCIA I was told the catechism was
    personal reading when I had the time rather than the teaching
    of the church.
  3. Our small library has protestant books as well as others;
    some actually deemed heretical in content by the church, yet
    accepted by the priest.
  4. We have had dancing during our mass as well as jokes.
  5. We are given an introduction to the readings and gospel prior
    to the reading. Often these are way off traditional views.
  6. Our homilies are more intellectual in nature than spiritual in
    nature. It is more like attending a seminar than mass.
  7. Traditions and their practice are treated as old fashioned rather
    than faithful.
There are many more, but in general, it takes one only a short time while in attendance to understand.

I hope this clears things up for you.
 
I don’t know about you all, but the minute I caught wind of litugical dancers, I’d be outta there!
 
I’d talk to a spiritual director. For me, I can’t deal with it so I travel for Mass most of the time. That said, I still have a hand in catechesis in the local area and I am a Catholic activist. I don’t think any of us can simply walk away. We can always do something even if we don’t attend the local wacky parish. I’d consult your spiritual director for advice.
 
E_Pluribus_Unum said:
  1. We put the blood of our savior in glass chalices at mass.
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:eek: That’s SO WRONG!

I don’t know if it’s liberalism or a simple case of the devil having his way with your parish. I feel for you and I pray God rectifies all these abuses.

sigh It reminds me so much of the so called Catholic high school I attended. They have all kinds of dancing and carrying on there to this day, and I really think that the students there were and are completely ignorant of their faith as well as the practice of it. shudders at the remembrance of the religion teacher who told the class that the Immaculate Conception was when Jesus was conceived
 
To me how soon you leave (or if) depend to a large degree on whether you’ve young children that you’re trying to bring up in the Faith. Another thing to keep in mind is; how strong is your own knowledge of the Church and so are you going to think “Oh, this isn’t that bad and neither is that…” and after a while lose what you have gained. An orthodox spiritual director is probably a good idea if that is the case. Another, since you are a convert is whether non-Catholic friends or family members come with you to church and so are a) scandalized or b) get “de-evangelized” (my own word 😃 ).

Other than having a good SD for you, if you have either of the other two, I would find a new parish right away. This is, of course, if the problems have happened continuously and nothing has happened when you’ve charitably brought it up to the pastor and then to the bishop.
 
E_Pluribus_Unum said:
At what point, does one remove themselves from a parish when the apparent movement, regardless of the number of attempts made, is one which blatantly goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church?
Click to expand...
The point at which the Pope declares it to be no longer a Catholic parish.
 
E_Pluribus_Unum said:
At what point, does one remove themselves from a parish when the apparent movement, regardless of the number of attempts made, is one which blatantly goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Liturgical abuses.
Eucharistic abuses.
RCIA inaccuracies.

I am not afraid of a standing up for what is right, but if the liberals are the majority or at the very least, in the positions to drive the parish direction, when should one opt to make a change?
Click to expand...
Get out ASAP. If you remain, you are placing yourself in an occaision of sin… and in this case it is much worse than an occaision sin in the area of morals, it is a danger of falling into heresy.

Think of how many Priest and bishops have fallen into the heresy of Liberalism. If it has happened to them, and can happen to you. It would be the height of presumpton to assume otherwise. It would be better to live in a Leper colony than attend Mass at a liberal parish. If you contracted Leprocy, it would only kill the body, whereas if you absorb liberalism it will destroy you mind and your faith.

Find youself a good Traditional Parish and never look back at the corrupt parish you are now in. Let the dead bury their dead, and don’t be under any allusions that you will be able to save a liberal parish. It’s not going to happen.

I know a good solid Novus Ordo Priest who is being absolutely persecuted because he is trying to restore the faith to his parish. If the Priest is unable to restore the faith, you as a merely laymen are not either. Your duty is to flee that cesspool of iniquity and find yourself a real Catholic parish. If you have an FSSP Church in your area, that is your answer.
 
E_Pluribus_Unum said:
NO problem.

A little surpised by the Senor Bell Response.

Anyway, we have a very liberal minded Priest as well as a hefty following of people which are like minded.

Some simple but very upsetting examples:
  1. We put the blood of our savior in glass chalices at mass.
  2. When going through the RCIA I was told the catechism was
    personal reading when I had the time rather than the teaching
    of the church.
  3. Our small library has protestant books as well as others;
    some actually deemed heretical in content by the church, yet
    accepted by the priest.
  4. We have had dancing during our mass as well as jokes.
  5. We are given an introduction to the readings and gospel prior
    to the reading. Often these are way off traditional views.
  6. Our homilies are more intellectual in nature than spiritual in
    nature. It is more like attending a seminar than mass.
  7. Traditions and their practice are treated as old fashioned rather
    than faithful.
There are many more, but in general, it takes one only a short time while in attendance to understand.

I hope this clears things up for you.
Click to expand...
You are trying to equate “liberal” with “abusive” and that is incorrect. The only reason I mention this is because if anyone would complain about the issues you list with the gripe they are “liberal”, they would not only look foolish, they might well be ignored.

There are plenty of conservatively-minded priests who are liturgical abusive and progressive-minded priests who are not. The reserve is also true Your generalization simply does not make sense and using it may be one reason why you (or others using it) are not taken seriously.
 
bear06 said:
I’d talk to a spiritual director. For me, I can’t deal with it so I travel for Mass most of the time. That said, I still have a hand in catechesis in the local area and I am a Catholic activist. **I don’t think any of us can simply walk away. ** We can always do something even if we don’t attend the local wacky parish. I’d consult your spiritual director for advice.
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That is very good advice. Cutting and running is usually not the answer, although for some it can be.
 
E_Pluribus_Unum said:
NO problem.

A little surpised by the Senor Bell Response.

Anyway, we have a very liberal minded Priest as well as a hefty following of people which are like minded.

Some simple but very upsetting examples:
  1. We put the blood of our savior in glass chalices at mass.
  2. When going through the RCIA I was told the catechism was
    personal reading when I had the time rather than the teaching
    of the church.
  3. Our small library has protestant books as well as others;
    some actually deemed heretical in content by the church, yet
    accepted by the priest.
  4. We have had dancing during our mass as well as jokes.
  5. We are given an introduction to the readings and gospel prior
    to the reading. Often these are way off traditional views.
  6. Our homilies are more intellectual in nature than spiritual in
    nature. It is more like attending a seminar than mass.
  7. Traditions and their practice are treated as old fashioned rather
    than faithful.
There are many more, but in general, it takes one only a short time while in attendance to understand.

I hope this clears things up for you.
Click to expand...
I have experienced similar abuses and some worse. I now travel a great distance to an EF (indult). But it must be done.

I pray that the Holy Father will rectify these grave problems. Maybe he should send the Archbishop Ranjith.
 
SenorBells said:
That is very good advice. Cutting and running is usually not the answer, although for some it can be.
Click to expand...
It really does depend on the person and their situation. I have children so they come first. If I can help save a parish after protecting them, then I will give it a go. I’m actually helping at the local parish to get an EF going. It’ll be a great counterbalance to the awful music at their relatively good Novus Ordo.
 
bear06 said:
It really does depend on the person and their situation. I have children so they come first. If I can help save a parish after protecting them, then I will give it a go. I’m actually helping at the local parish to get an EF going. It’ll be a great counterbalance to the awful music at their relatively good Novus Ordo.
Click to expand...
It also depends how people cut and run.

If they gossip around their new parishes about how bad (they feel) their old parish was, then they aren’t doing anyone any good and I have seen that a great deal.

I have visited more than one parish that was full of people polluting the parish by complaining about the past parishes. It canget to be a bit much…
 
E_Pluribus_Unum said:
NO problem.

A little surpised by the Senor Bell Response.

Anyway, we have a very liberal minded Priest as well as a hefty following of people which are like minded.

Some simple but very upsetting examples:
  1. We put the blood of our savior in glass chalices at mass.
  2. When going through the RCIA I was told the catechism was
    personal reading when I had the time rather than the teaching
    of the church.
  3. Our small library has protestant books as well as others;
    some actually deemed heretical in content by the church, yet
    accepted by the priest.
  4. We have had dancing during our mass as well as jokes.
  5. We are given an introduction to the readings and gospel prior
    to the reading. Often these are way off traditional views.
  6. Our homilies are more intellectual in nature than spiritual in
    nature. It is more like attending a seminar than mass.
  7. Traditions and their practice are treated as old fashioned rather
    than faithful.
There are many more, but in general, it takes one only a short time while in attendance to understand.

I hope this clears things up for you.
Click to expand...
You must belong to the same Parish as Clayton, a poster of another almost identical thread. He didn’t mention liturgical dancers though.
 
SenorBells said:
There are plenty of conservatively-minded priests who are liturgical abusive **and progressive-minded priests **who are not. The reserve is also true Your generalization simply does not make sense and using it may be one reason why you (or others using it) are not taken seriously.
Click to expand...
How can there be such a thing as a "progressive-minded priest? What exactly is that?
 
We do have children and that is one reason I feel the need to leave.

I hate to think about it but it seems the only real answer. If the problems have existed for a while, and more senior members of the parish cannot affect changes, what makes me think anyone can.
 
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