Liberty with The Lord's Prayer

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Today I attended a graveside service for a friend’s mother. (No Mass, just the graveside ritual)

No priest was present, rather, a nun “officiated” at the service.
You’d never have known she was a nun/sister by the way she was dressed (big shocker, I know ), nor did she introduce herself as such, but the funeral director later told me she was a nun.

Anyway, at one point in the 15 minute service, she asked everyone to bow their heads while she recited The Lord’s Prayer.

She said, “Our Father, and Holy Mother, who art in heaven…” and continued on in the traditional sense.

Needless to say, I was stunned that such liberty was taken with The Lord’s Prayer. NOT that I have any issue with the BVM, I just have never heard of Mary being included in the prayer.

I suppose my question is twofold:
1.) Is it “legal” for her to have done that and change the wording of what is probably the most fundamental prayer we have?

2.) Since when do nuns/sisters officiate at funerals or graveside services?

This nun was not a friend of the family or any relation. She also used the holy water to bless the gravesite…I’ve never seen this done anywhere by anyone other than an ordained priest.

Why she was officiating at this service is a mystery to me. There are 15 parishes in the city I live in, so I can’t imagine they couldn’t find a priest who could have performed the service, and yes, this was a Catholic Cemetary.

I just found the entire thing to be very odd, bordering on “invalid” so to speak…although I do realize she wasn’t administering a sacrament.

Anyone have any thoughts on this ?
 
Anyone can pray at the graveside if the family permits. However, the official Catholic service is to be performed by the priest or deacon. The nun wasn’t addressing the Father and the Blessed Mother, she was calling God our Father and our Mother. This isn’t how Jesus taught us to pray. Some people who do this are upset that the church cannot ordain women to the priesthood. They think women don’t have an important role in the church.

Even if the nun was reading the committal prayers at the graveside at the request of the pastor, she should not have changed the words of the Our Father.
 
Mary is our Blessed Mother. Not our Holy Mother.

The “nun” is citing a pagan belief that God is our Father and Mother.

I would’ve been outraged, especially if this was at mine or a family member’s funeral.
 
She’s engaged in heretical behavior. If you know her name, she should be reported to the bishop, so he can inform her superiors.
 
Mary is our Blessed Mother. Not our Holy Mother.

Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics (and other Eastern Christians) use the epithet “Holy Mother” all the time.
 
It does give new meaning to chutzpah to believe that one can improve on Jesus’ wording. :rolleyes:
 
I’m actually considering calling our chancery office to complain about this, but I don’t know how far I’d get. Our bishop/cardinal is very liberal.

Since I posted this originally, I’ve spoken to a few others who were there and they think I’m over reacting to this whole thing.

I investigated the order she belongs to and discovered they are very “into” this “cosmology” thing and have speakers come to their retreat house to talk about it.

I don’t go for all this new age stuff !
 
Gardenman said:
I’m actually considering calling our chancery office to complain about this, but I don’t know how far I’d get. Our bishop/cardinal is very liberal.
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I’m sorry to hear this. Call anyway. Make sure to name the sister by name if possible, the day, date and time of the graveside service. You might form your complaint in the form of a question, though, as in “Is it correct to change the words of the Our Father?”
Since I posted this originally, I’ve spoken to a few others who were there and they think I’m over reacting to this whole thing.
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One cannot over-react when someone tries to change the Faith.

I investigated the order she belongs to and discovered they are very “into” this “cosmology” thing and have speakers come to their retreat house to talk about it.

I don’t go for all this new age stuff !

Many of us don’t. You will remain in my prayers. Courage and edification!
 
Gardenman said:
Today I attended a graveside service for a friend’s mother. (No Mass, just the graveside ritual)

No priest was present, rather, a nun “officiated” at the service.
You’d never have known she was a nun/sister by the way she was dressed (big shocker, I know ), nor did she introduce herself as such, but the funeral director later told me she was a nun.

Anyway, at one point in the 15 minute service, she asked everyone to bow their heads while she recited The Lord’s Prayer.

She said, “Our Father, and Holy Mother, who art in heaven…” and continued on in the traditional sense.

Needless to say, I was stunned that such liberty was taken with The Lord’s Prayer. NOT that I have any issue with the BVM, I just have never heard of Mary being included in the prayer.

I suppose my question is twofold:
1.) Is it “legal” for her to have done that and change the wording of what is probably the most fundamental prayer we have?

2.) Since when do nuns/sisters officiate at funerals or graveside services?

This nun was not a friend of the family or any relation. She also used the holy water to bless the gravesite…I’ve never seen this done anywhere by anyone other than an ordained priest.

Why she was officiating at this service is a mystery to me. There are 15 parishes in the city I live in, so I can’t imagine they couldn’t find a priest who could have performed the service, and yes, this was a Catholic Cemetary.

I just found the entire thing to be very odd, bordering on “invalid” so to speak…although I do realize she wasn’t administering a sacrament.

Anyone have any thoughts on this ?
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First, the Lord’s Prayer may not be changed. The words have to be used as they were written in the Gospel. That’s a big no no.

Second, to lead others in prayer at a gravesight service is not illegal. However, the use of the ritual with holy water and so forth is reserved for a Deacon. That is another no no. Priests preside over funeralservices, because all priests are deacons. You have to ordained a deacon before you are ordained a priest. The order of deacon is not lost when you receive the order of presbyter or bishop. The ritual is clear, only a deacon, presbyter or bishop can bless the coffin.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
If what you say is correct, it is highly irregular at best. At a minimum it should be discussed with the pastor, possible the bishop.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
It doesn’t matter if she was praying to God and Mary, the Lord’s Prayer is to God the Father, not to Mary.
 
japhy said:
It doesn’t matter if she was praying to God and Mary, the Lord’s Prayer is to God the Father, not to Mary.
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IF I’m correctly understanding the poster, it does not sound like she was praying to Mary. To my ears it sounded more like the new age thing about calling God mother and father.

There is no debate among Catholic theologians that God has maternal qualities and that he does not have gender in the sense that animals do. But the Lord’s Prayer clearly says Father and it comes from an ancient Jewish tradition. If Jesus used it as it was, without making any changes to it, then it has to be used the same way.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
Don’t call… WRITE.

Bishop’s correspondence is usually logged.

Or, if you must call, write and call.
 
Pray for this poor woman, she’s going to need it eventually. She is the typical example of the Liberalism in the Church over the last 40 years.

The Catholic Church is to blame for what has happened, with all the choices they offer since Vatican II. Once you open up that can of worms, it is almost impossible to stop it. You can stand or kneel at communion, You can have the Host put in your hand or on the tongue, etc. etc.

At one time there were rules and you had to adhered to them. Now we are mocked and scorned the world over, because we’ve turned into a liberal church, not to mention the Priest scandals.

Thank God I am able to attend a Latin High Mass every Sunday at my church by Norbertine Priests. It makes the Novus Ordo seem like the Readers Digest compared to the real story.
 
JReducation said:
IF I’m correctly understanding the poster, it does not sound like she was praying to Mary. To my ears it sounded more like the new age thing about calling God mother and father.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure she was praying to God as “father and mother” too, I’m just covering all bases.
 
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