Liciety of Female Readers at Tridentine Masses

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Dauphin said:
I’m not saying that old ladies are bad people. I used that image because it is my most common experience with lay-readers. I find it degrading to both the liturgy and to the lay-reader, who I have no doubt is doing it out of good intentions. The proper place of that old lady, along with every other lay person, is in quiet devotion during the Mass.
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You use that image because you assume that other people share your view of women.

You have apparently not walked in the shoes of a woman who has spent these last 10 years of her life carrying for her husband who recently died of alzheimer’s disease. You have no knowledge of women who have watched one or more of their children die of cancer. You have no concept of what it means to care for elderly parents and sick babies.

Your comments are insulting and degrading. Your comment degrades you, not the women who serve God to the best of their abilities.

Thank God I have Mary who understands and welcomes elderly women into her arms as she did Elizabeth. I want you to go to Mary and explain to her exactly what you mean and why you say such horrible things.
 
Dauphin said:
The question is, why does she feel the need to take centre stage? I’m sure she has the ability to read, and perhaps to do so reverently, but what’s the need? Women have no place taking over the responsibilities of clerics, even if they might do a better job of it. Scripture is clear in saying that women have no place in public teaching, which is exactly what the reading of scripture is. There’s absolutely no sound reason for the minister not to proclaim the readings.

The Mass isn’t about making everyone feel ‘included’. It isn’t about showing off how very wonderful we are. This sort of idea has been at the centre of liturgical collapse for the last 40 years, and it’s not a “Catholic” approach to liturgy at all.
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:eek: Wow! Someone better let the thousands of female CCD teachers (about 95% female) and thousands of female Catholic school teachers to STOP! HALT! immediately of public teaching of scripture. Do not teach the readings from the previous Mass! very bad. The female DRE’s need to stop in-service training where scripture is read. Teen Life Mass…if your female…forget it…you can’t do the readings…sorry:tsktsk:

I agree with Dark Night. That was very offensive. I guess an old man waddling up to the lecturn is more your style.

What in the world makes someone think that a woman in a pantsuit has feminist leanings? :rolleyes:
 
KestrelRose said:
You use that image because you assume that other people share your view of women.

You have apparently not walked in the shoes of a woman who has spent these last 10 years of her life carrying for her husband who recently died of alzheimer’s disease. You have no knowledge of women who have watched one or more of their children die of cancer. You have no concept of what it means to care for elderly parents and sick babies.

Your comments are insulting and degrading. Your comment degrades you, not the women who serve God to the best of their abilities.

Thank God I have Mary who understands and welcomes elderly women into her arms as she did Elizabeth. I want you to go to Mary and explain to her exactly what you mean and why you say such horrible things.
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This is just nuts. You’d think I was creeping out at night and strangling old ladies. :rolleyes: All this sanctimonious, trumped-up outrage at the use of “greying lady in a pantsuit” imagery is just downright ridiculous.

It’s not my concern if others disagree with my views on women, or on the role of laity during the Mass. My only interest is in conforming to the view of St. Paul, as contained in canonical scripture:

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.” - 1 Timothy 2:12
 
Julianna said:
:eek: Wow! Someone better let the thousands of female CCD teachers (about 95% female) and thousands of female Catholic school teachers to STOP! HALT! immediately of public teaching of scripture. Do not teach the readings from the previous Mass! very bad. The female DRE’s need to stop in-service training where scripture is read. Teen Life Mass…if your female…forget it…you can’t do the readings…sorry:tsktsk:
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Uh-huh. Most of the things you refer to are in essentially domestic settings. What I’m talking about, and what St. Paul was talking about, is public teaching of an authoritative nature.

What do you make of St. Paul’s teaching? I’m simply re-iterating what he’s saying, in an even more nuanced way. I suppose you must disagree even more vehemently with scripture.
I agree with Dark Night. That was very offensive. I guess an old man waddling up to the lecturn is more your style.
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If that old man isn’t a cleric, no. There’s absolutely no reason for laity to be performing that function, except according to the mistaken approach that Mass is about us and making everyone ‘feel included’.
What in the world makes someone think that a woman in a pantsuit has feminist leanings? :rolleyes:
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There’s a general correlation.
 
KestrelRose said:
You use that image because you assume that other people share your view of women.

You have apparently not walked in the shoes of a woman who has spent these last 10 years of her life carrying for her husband who recently died of alzheimer’s disease. You have no knowledge of women who have watched one or more of their children die of cancer. You have no concept of what it means to care for elderly parents and sick babies.

Your comments are insulting and degrading. Your comment degrades you, not the women who serve God to the best of their abilities.

Thank God I have Mary who understands and welcomes elderly women into her arms as she did Elizabeth. I want you to go to Mary and explain to her exactly what you mean and why you say such horrible things.
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Sheesh, Dauphin. Don’t you know it actually hurts to lose a child to Cancer? Don’t you know that because someone somewhere at some point in time lost a child to Cancer, that means pantsuiter ex-nuns have the right to tromp all over the altar in their JC Penny’s?

Dauphin, you are a heartless meanie.
 
Dauphin said:
This is just nuts. You’d think I was creeping out at night and strangling old ladies. :rolleyes: All this sanctimonious, trumped-up outrage at the use of “greying lady in a pantsuit” imagery is just downright ridiculous.
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Yeah it’s ridiculous. That’s just how it is on forums, though. All this faux-sensitivity and self-righteousness. It’s that “Well, I nevah!” type attitude again. There’s nothing that can be done about it. I used the word “retarded” once and people soiled themselves. It’s this selfish mentality that everyone has to cater to their particular issues in life combined with the inability to focus on the matter at hand.
 
It is perfectly acceptable to say and believe that women should not read at a Tridentine Mass.

It is an entirely different matter to try to prove your point by using vicious and hateful descriptions of women.
 
Dauphin said:
Uh-huh. Most of the things you refer to are in essentially domestic settings. What I’m talking about, and what St. Paul was talking about, is public teaching of an authoritative nature.

Domestic? So you mean that a female CCD teacher and a female CCD teacher are not “authoritative” teachers? It is “public” teaching. My children went through 5 yrs of Catholic school and I was a CCD teacher for several years. Some of my female students did readings at the 6PM Mass.

What do you make of St. Paul’s teaching? I’m simply re-iterating what he’s saying, in an even more nuanced way. I suppose you must disagree even more vehemently with scripture.

I hope you don’t have a female boss, or should a woman become President…that would be just awful for you I guess 🤷

If that old man isn’t a cleric, no. There’s absolutely no reason for laity to be performing that function, except according to the mistaken approach that Mass is about us and making everyone ‘feel included’.

Oh yeah, the ol’ horizontal thing…yeah, yeah…it’s all coming back to me now. The sack cloth and ashes, the guilt trips, the scare tactics…:rolleyes:

Whew I am glad I’m awake now…bad dream for sure.

There’s a general correlation.
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oh yeah, pantsuits…equal feminists. Interesting theory, but totally wrong. Number 1…no one wears “pantsuits” anymore. Least of all old ladies. My mother hasn’t worn a pantsuit since 1978 and she is almost 80. So I don’t even know what planet that comment came from. Talk about “out of touch”.

I guess you are a “letter of the law” type…wonderful for you that you know all the “facts and figures”…too bad the “spirit of the law” somehow got lost in the shuffle.
 
KestrelRose said:
It is perfectly acceptable to say and believe that women should not read at a Tridentine Mass.

It is an entirely different matter to try to prove your point by using vicious and hateful descriptions of women.
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Your interpretation of the description is incorrect - it wasn’t hateful in the slightest. It may be a bit of a rude description of the ubiquitous female reader, but there wasn’t any spite behind it whatsoever.
 
Julianna said:
oh yeah, pantsuits…equal feminists. Interesting theory, but totally wrong. Number 1…no one wears “pantsuits” anymore. Least of all old ladies. My mother hasn’t worn a pantsuit since 1978 and she is almost 80. So I don’t even know what planet that comment came from. Talk about “out of touch”.
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I guess you are a “letter of the law” type…wonderful for you that you know all the “facts and figures”…too bad the “spirit of the law” somehow got lost in the shuffle.
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No - in this case it’s the exact opposite. Even though the letter of the law permits it, I feel that lay-readers are contrary to the spirit of the liturgy.
 
Dauphin said:
Your interpretation of the description was incorrect - wasn’t hateful in the slightest. It may be a bit of a rude description of the ubiquitous female reader, but there wasn’t any spite behind it whatsoever.
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It wasn’t rude at all. You could take a video camera into 90% of parishes and your description would be entirely accurate…
 
Dauphin said:
Your interpretation of the description was incorrect - wasn’t hateful in the slightest. It may be a bit of a rude description of the ubiquitous female reader, but there wasn’t any spite behind it whatsoever.
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ubiquitous - being everywhere, esp. at the same time.(The Random House Dictionary)

Women everywhere, esp. at the same time.

Spite - a malicious desire to harm or humiliate another person.(The Random House Dictionary)

Your desire is to humiliate women in order to shame women.
 
Julianna said:
:eek: Wow! Someone better let the thousands of female CCD teachers (about 95% female) and thousands of female Catholic school teachers to STOP! HALT! immediately of public teaching of scripture.
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I don’t think his issue is with women educators, but women reading in the liturgy which is an entirely different thing. Women can teach whatever they want to whomever they want, but those serving at Mass have to be male for ritual and theological reasons. A woman can licitly be the president of every nation on Earth, but not a priest in the smallest and most insignificant parish.
Julianna said:
Teen Life Mass…if your female…forget it…you can’t do the readings…sorry:tsktsk:
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Forget being female. Being Catholic prevents you from this.
 
KestrelRose said:
ubiquitous - being everywhere, esp. at the same time.(The Random House Dictionary)

Women everywhere, esp. at the same time.

Spite - a malicious desire to harm or humiliate another person.(The Random House Dictionary)

Your desire is to humiliate women in order to shame women.
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No. It’s to keep idiots out of the sanctuary, male or female.

And I don’t understand the whole “humiliate in order to shame” thing, Don’t those mean essentially the same thing? How is this? These old crabby lib-ladies need to be paying more attention to their grandchildren and to making pies than trying to dominate the parish priest and the liturgy.
 
Don’t misunderstand me. I don’t believe women should be priests.

I believe women should be treated with respect. Using the “waddling” in reference to any woman is vicious and spiteful.
 
“Oh yeah, the ol’ horizontal thing…yeah, yeah…it’s all coming back to me now. The sack cloth and ashes, the guilt trips, the scare tactics…”

You are so right! We just need to luv each other. All we ever need to tell people is that God luvs them! He doesn’t just love them, like we used to believe. He **luvs **them.He no longer demands obedience! As a matter of fact, hell was abrogated! It’s all about luv now!
 
KestrelRose said:
Don’t misunderstand me. I don’t believe women should be priests.

I believe women should be treated with respect. Using the “waddling” in reference to any woman is vicious and spiteful.
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…but it wasn’t, at least in my case. In order for a comment to be spiteful, it has to be motivated by spite - and the commenter has to feel spite. I assure you, it wasn’t, and I didn’t. It was motivated by embarrassment for lay-readers and pain at the distortion of the liturgy.

The fact that you’ve focused on a single sentence - even a single word - and belted out emotional comdemnations instead of engaging my argument reasonably, reveals a lot.
 
PrayforMallory said:
No. It’s to keep idiots out of the sanctuary, male or female.

And I don’t understand the whole “humiliate in order to shame” thing, Don’t those mean essentially the same thing? How is this? These old crabby lib-ladies need to be paying more attention to their grandchildren and to making pies than trying to dominate the parish priest and the liturgy.
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I am not a liberal. I am an independent/moderate. I dislike bandwagons. I can think for myself. Not sure if you meant “lib” as in “liberal” or “lib” as in “feminist”. I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.

I don’t cook. My husband cooks, he enjoys it. 😃 My granddaughter and I have a good time together and it doesn’t involve making pies.

I read the OT and NT readings at my brothers wedding. My Baptist cousin read the OT and NT readings at mine in 1981. I am the Godmother to her daughter. She married a Catholic and both children were raised in the Church. The Diocese of Charleston didn’t have a problem with it, but I suppose you and your friend Dauphin will start weeping and wailing and knash your teeth.

At 50, I am far from old. Old is a state of mind.

I know you long for the days when women didn’t vote, own land, have their own bank account, credit in their name, a driver’s license . How they oooo and ahhh over the lovely “iron” you gave them for Christmas, or the “vacuum cleaner” or the new “Frigidare” with an ice maker :eek:

Your issues have nothing to do with the Church, it’s about control and your personal contempt for women who dare to think for themselves.
 
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