Lieing

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HNA444 said:
I guess lying would be sinful if it is for selfish reason or if you are hurting someone.
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It is ALWAYS sinful to lie. To lie is to abuse both one’s self and the one to whom the lie is told.

– Nicole
 
yablabo said:
It is ALWAYS sinful to lie. To lie is to abuse both one’s self and the one to whom the lie is told.

– Nicole
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Ok, well what if you are lying to save someone’s life or to make someone feel better???
 
HNA444 said:
Ok, well what if you are lying to save someone’s life or to make someone feel better???
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If I have to lie to save someone’s life I will definitely lie through my teeth and then some and not even hesitate for a second before doing so.
 
yablabo said:
It is ALWAYS sinful to lie. To lie is to abuse both one’s self and the one to whom the lie is told.

– Nicole
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Nicole, say I am Jewish. You’re hiding me in your house and the Nazi’s come to your door and ask you if you’re hiding any Jews. You know that if you answer truthfully that I will be shot dead on the spot. What’s your answer? Do you lie to save my life or do you tell the truth?
 
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth.
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Col 3:9 Lie not one to another: stripping yourselves of the old man with his deeds,
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2482 "A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving."281 The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: "You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."282
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2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.
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2484 The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.
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2485 By its very nature, lying is to be condemned. It is a profanation of speech, whereas the purpose of speech is to communicate known truth to others. The deliberate intention of leading a neighbor into error by saying things contrary to the truth constitutes a failure in justice and charity. The culpability is greater when the intention of deceiving entails the risk of deadly consequences for those who are led astray.
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2486 Since it violates the virtue of truthfulness, a lie does real violence to another. It affects his ability to know, which is a condition of every judgment and decision. It contains the seed of discord and all consequent evils. Lying is destructive of society; it undermines trust among men and tears apart the fabric of social relationships.
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To rationalize a sin is to break ones conscience.

An evil can never justify a good.

God cannot lie so a lie can never be necessary.

There must always be a better way.
 
Ok, so let’s say in a situation if someone says “do i look fat in this shirt?” , are you supposed to say yes, if that’s what you think? Would if be a venial sin to lie and say no?
 
HNA444 said:
Ok, so let’s say in a situation if someone says “do i look fat in this shirt?” , are you supposed to say yes, if that’s what you think? Would if be a venial sin to lie and say no?
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Discernment and prudence apply:
2484 The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.
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Saying “you look very nice” or anything else that would cause no harm would not be a lie.

There is always a better way.

Uncertainty, weakness or fear may influence us to tell an untruth that may not be classified as a sinful lie. The requirements for a sin were given earlier.
 
HNA444 said:
Ok, so let’s say in a situation if someone says “do i look fat in this shirt?” , are you supposed to say yes, if that’s what you think? Would if be a venial sin to lie and say no?
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I think it would definitely be venial if anything.
Joab_Anias said:
Saying “you look very nice” or anything else that would cause no harm would not be a lie.
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What if they don’t “look very nice”?
 
Lorrie said:
I think it would definitely be venial if anything.

What if they don’t “look very nice”?
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lol, yea i was just going to say that. Saying you look very nice is a lie if you don;t think they do. But, Lorrie, I agree that any lie would probably be a venial sin
 
HNA444 said:
lol, yea i was just going to say that. Saying you look very nice is a lie if you don;t think they do. But, Lorrie, I agree that any lie would probably be a venial sin
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Exactly! You say, “You look very nice” but you know they look like c_r_a_p. :rolleyes:
 
yablabo said:
Of course those are sinful. Trying to do evil that good may come of it goes directly against what is taught by the Church (Catechism of the Catholic Church #1789). Lying is intrinsically evil. One’s intent and circumstance can never make an intrinsic evil into a good or neutral action. That means in ALL times and places lying is sinful.

If a person is to speak, he has a DUTY to speak the truth. The primary purpose of speech is to convey the truth with certitude…the ultimate purpose being for everyone to come into accord. If we speak in such a way as to form the minds of those around us on error, then, as is taught, we do VIOLENCE to them and void the purpose of speech.

It is ALWAYS a sin to lie.

– Nicole
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If this is what the Church teaches, she is clearly in error. The right to the truth is not universal- if we can commit murder as a means of self preservation, than obviously we can lie.

Quick google search makes it seem as if the Church does not in fact teach what you said-
2488 The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.

2508 Lying consists in saying what is false with the intention of deceiving the neighbor who has the right to the truth.

2510 The golden rule helps one discern, in concrete situations, whether or not it would be appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.
 
HNA444 said:
Ok, well what if you are lying to save someone’s life or to make someone feel better???
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Like I said before…and as is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church…intent and circumstance do NOT change an evil act to one that is good or neutral. Therefore, lying is always sinful.

– Nicole
 
Lorrie said:
Nicole, say I am Jewish. You’re hiding me in your house and the Nazi’s come to your door and ask you if you’re hiding any Jews. You know that if you answer truthfully that I will be shot dead on the spot. What’s your answer? Do you lie to save my life or do you tell the truth?
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It doesn’t matter what I would do. It only matters what God says we ought do.

– Nicole
 
yablabo said:
Like I said before…and as is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church…intent and circumstance do NOT change an evil act to one that is good or neutral. Therefore, lying is always sinful.

– Nicole
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Lying is not always sinful. There are circumstances where in stressful situations lying is not sinful. These situations are usually when a person’s life is in danger. In other circumstances we should reserve the information; either by misleading a person or simply not telling them.
 
yablabo said:
Like I said before…and as is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church…intent and circumstance do NOT change an evil act to one that is good or neutral. Therefore, lying is always sinful.

– Nicole
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The CCC clearly states that lying is only sinful when the person being lied to has a right to the truth
 
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