Lies about sexual past

[TriciaF]

My fiancé made it very clear that he cannot live with lying in a relationship after he discovered a lie I told him early on in the relationship. I promised I would never lie to him again…** He said he’ll marry me because he’s confused, and he feels obligated to since we’ve come so far. He feels like he proposed under false pretenses though**. I do want to be his wife, but should I let him marry me? Are there too many outside constraints?

Tavila, dear, I know it’s an emotional situation, but in your later posts you seem to be glossing over and soft-pedalling regarding your earlier statements. Your original statements were clear indeed.
Please don’t gloss over, because the truth will out, if not now, later.
We hope for you to be really honest about how you deal with this issue, for his sake and yours.
Unless you radically deal with this, the poor man will feel swept along to an impending marriage that he harbours serious doubts about. Your lies are a huge glaring red flag for him.

You lied even when you knew it is such a serious matter to a good man. (That is not love, do you know, love does not betray something that means so much to the other person…you want him and want to marry him, but your love is not proven, in fact, by your continued lying you proved you don’t truly love him, though you think you love him.) That is the real 'red flag here for him. You don’t love him enough with TRUE love.
I don’t expect you will believe this but if you do understand, you could grow into someone who truly loves. It’s a whole lot more than being attracted, having warm feelings about, wanting to be with, and thinking about him, even wanting children with him. That’s not enough as it is SELF-pleasing.

You need to love him come up to his just and good expectations without betrayal, not just what you want of him.

Foresee the possibility lots of arguments about whether or not you are lying unless there is a radical change.

And feelings die when anyone feels forced to do something against their better judgement.
A marriage can become very lonely if it begins from obligation. Feeling become strained easily and die.

I hope you get the help needed for you both, if an honest undertaking never to lie again is not certain

It won’t go away by itself. If buried, it will surface after marriage.

I do hope things work out for the best for you both.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

American society has been confused about honesty and lying for a while now. Keeping some things private is not lying. Some secrets should NEVER be told, and people have a right to privacy in some things. Catholics, especially, ought to know that what is between them and their priest doesn’t really have to be discussed with others.

To me, the key is in recognizing whether the person you are dating believes that FULL DISCLOSURE is 100% necessary, and why that person believes this. I am suspicious of those who demand that sort of confession - it almost becomes an inquisition, and much damage is done to the person who does not wish to divulge particular details. It sounds as though the OP’s fiance’ was badgering her for details which she did not wish to give, and lies came out instead. When people feel backed into a corner, sometimes a defense mechanism comes out. That is why I do not think it’s fair to scold her about her lies. She felt pressed into a corner and made a poor decision, but I do think her fiance’ bears some responsibility for continuing to press her for more information.

It seems a no-win situation, because if the person under pressure does NOT divulge, their loved one is not going to trust him/her, but if details ARE given, then the relationship will be damaged in a different way.

Bolding mine. You are dead on. I couldn’t have said it better. I am very, very suspicious of people who need to know absolutely everything. That in my mind raises red flags regarding trust issues, insecurity, power trips, controlling behavior, etc. Dating or not you are not entitled to every detail about someone, especially before there is a good foundation of trust, love, and mutual respect.

I think when you start wanting the personal facts about someone whether it be sexual history, medical history, family history, etc early on to weed out any “dealbreakers” it shows that you really aren’t ready to be in a relationship anyway. Dating is about gradually getting to know someone while building a solid foundation for things to get more serious. You just can’t let that happen naturally and really try to get to know someone as a person when you are so focused on reducing them to their attributes/history/whatever.

And in my (somewhat limited, admittedly) experience it is always best to take things slow, especially in the beginning.

 

[TriciaF]

American society has been confused about honesty and lying for a while now. Keeping some things private is not lying. Some secrets should NEVER be told, and people have a right to privacy in some things. Catholics, especially, ought to know that what is between them and their priest doesn’t really have to be discussed with others.

To me, the key is in recognizing whether the person you are dating believes that FULL DISCLOSURE is 100% necessary, and why that person believes this. I am suspicious of those who demand that sort of confession - it almost becomes an inquisition, and much damage is done to the person who does not wish to divulge particular details. It sounds as though the OP’s fiance’ was badgering her for details which she did not wish to give, and lies came out instead. When people feel backed into a corner, sometimes a defense mechanism comes out. That is why I do not think it’s fair to scold her about her lies. She felt pressed into a corner and made a poor decision, but I do think her fiance’ bears some responsibility for continuing to press her for more information.

It seems a no-win situation, because if the person under pressure does NOT divulge, their loved one is not going to trust him/her, but if details ARE given, then the relationship will be damaged in a different way.

I have thought that also, and agree with the last two posters on this.
That we have Confession for our sins, and it isn’t right for people to minutely cross-examine our past life.
I’m glad you shared this.
We are who we are now.
Other people, even spouses don’t have the right to every corner of us.
When we appear before God to be judged, it will be alone.
Our spouses don’t get the right of veto!

Our spouses have the right to know who we are, not all our past mistakes and sins.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have thought that also, and agree with the last two posters on this.
That we have Confession for our sins, and it isn’t right for people to minutely cross-examine our past life.
I’m glad you shared this.
We are who we are now.
Other people, even spouses don’t have the right to every corner of us.
When we appear before God to be judged, it will be alone.
Our spouses don’t get the right of veto!

Our spouses have the right to know who we are, not all our past mistakes and sins.

Yes, and all our past sins, once confessed, are GONE as far as the East is from the West! They are no longer a part of us so what do we need to give anyone details for??

*Note: I realize that temporal effects can remain and I am not suggesting that a certain amount of honesty between spouses is not healthy. Just that cross-examination of past sins is not necessary nor advisable.

 

[Sillara]

Perhaps I am misreading this, but it certainly seems as though several posters are vilifying the OP’s fiance for wanting to be told the truth rather than lies (lying is an intrinsic evil, by the way), as well as to be saying that because one has confessed and received absolution, one can pretend the sins never occurred. “Sure I slept around, but I confessed. Now when anyone asks I can just say I am a virgin! After all, my sins are gone!”

Imagine if a man had had a problem with porn. Would anyone be so quick to say he has a “right” to hide that from his fiancee/girlfriend discerning marriage?

Privacy is not an intrinsic good.

 

[Quaesitor]

American society has been confused about honesty and lying for a while now. Keeping some things private is not lying. Some secrets should NEVER be told, and people have a right to privacy in some things. Catholics, especially, ought to know that what is between them and their priest doesn’t really have to be discussed with others.

To me, the key is in recognizing whether the person you are dating believes that FULL DISCLOSURE is 100% necessary, and why that person believes this. I am suspicious of those who demand that sort of confession - it almost becomes an inquisition, and much damage is done to the person who does not wish to divulge particular details. It sounds as though the OP’s fiance’ was badgering her for details which she did not wish to give, and lies came out instead. When people feel backed into a corner, sometimes a defense mechanism comes out. That is why I do not think it’s fair to scold her about her lies. She felt pressed into a corner and made a poor decision, but I do think her fiance’ bears some responsibility for continuing to press her for more information.

It seems a no-win situation, because if the person under pressure does NOT divulge, their loved one is not going to trust him/her, but if details ARE given, then the relationship will be damaged in a different way.

While I see where you’re going, and for the most part I agree, but there are cases where there are things that should be confessed to your future mate. The OP does not explain exactly what her passed sins are therefore we shouldn’t make declarations that are all or nothing statements like above. Someone who has reoccurring issues with addictions that while they may have overcome them at the present should be discussed, so the spouse is aware of them and can help them rather than find out about it after the fact and be stunned. I’m talking about sexual addictions, like porn or masturbation or sex addiction, that might rear its ugly head after the marriage. Not to say they will, but it would be better to know about this before hand so instead of being surprised and caught off-guard they can be more sympathetic and help their spouse. There’s also the issue of disease with any sexual partners, but those can be covered by a standard test without going into any detail.

Lying is not the way to start any relationship. If her sins are not of an addictive nature, then she should have just said, I’ve confessed my sins and I have a clear conscious with God and he’s the only one I have to confess to right now. If they where of an addictive nature she should have just said, you know, one day we may have a bigger discussion about it, but for now you only need to know that I’ve confessed my sins and I’m walking with God and leave it there, then when the time comes she could have discussed these things while being totally honest.

However this is all beside the point, because she didn’t do this and she lied. I think she should hold off on the marriage until her future husband wants to marry the woman he knows she is now.

 

[Quaesitor]

“Sure I slept around, but I confessed. Now when anyone asks I can just say I am a virgin! After all, my sins are gone!”

I don’t know if I can agree with this. Confession limits God’s judgement against you for said act but it doesn’t give you back your virginity. Sorry that can’t happen and would be a lie. Maybe I’m wrong and tell me if I am.

 

[Sillara]

I don’t know if I can agree with this. Confession limits God’s judgement against you for said act but it doesn’t give you back your virginity. Sorry that can’t happen and would be a lie. Maybe I’m wrong and tell me if I am.

You are exactly right. It is just that this is the impression I get from people on this forum. It is a complete lie, and lying is always wrong.

I know that I would be completely willing to answer any questions my then-boyfriend, now-husband would have asked about my sexual past. I know because he did ask, and I told him. I told him the truth, incidentally. He knows that he can trust me. I cannot imagine what our life would have been like had I started it out with lies.

 

[Chevaleresse]

Here’s some advice from an author on a Catholic dating site:

"1. You must be willing to grant complete access. With the right person, you should be open and honest about anything and everything. This means more than just fessing up to obvious faults like admitting you are a back-seat driver or acknowledging the fact that you enjoy sports more than you do praying the rosary. When you’re married you must be comfortable with your spouse knowing every last detail about you. Every tick, every embarrassing moment, every bad thing you’ve done and every weakness you have. There can’t be any excuses, only acceptance. You must be ready to share your life on this level if you want your marriage to last.

That may sound uncomfortable, but I guarantee you that allowing your spouse to see you in those completely vulnerable moments becomes a foundational cement in your relationship; a level of security that no one else in your life could have. You shouldn’t have anything to hide from your spouse. This exclusive knowledge of each other builds an intimacy that becomes this relational super glue. If you are willing to allow that type of intimacy, you are on your way to a solid, lasting relationship."

"Living with someone on these levels of intimacy is exciting to imagine for someone who is ready to commit. If a person is scared by this proposal, then I hope they would consider that being married has a much deeper meaning than what they might think.

Unfortunately if you can’t find out who that person is, how can you accept them for who they are."

“There’s also the issue of disease with any sexual partners, but those can be covered by a standard test without going into any detail.”

There’s some things that slip by those tests. And the last thing a spouse wants to hear is: “oh sorry, dear, I didn’t tell you about the super-strain I’m infected with. The tests didn’t turn anything up. Oops.”

“I think when you start wanting the personal facts about someone whether it be sexual history, medical history, family history, etc early on to weed out any “dealbreakers” it shows that you really aren’t ready to be in a relationship anyway. Dating is about gradually getting to know someone while building a solid foundation for things to get more serious.”

So only those who are willing to wait for the other person to tell them that they aren’t compatible are ready? I mean, for people who aren’t actually interested in marrying (which is a lot of people who date these days), waiting forever will work just fine. Saying that someone isn’t ready for a relationship if they want to determine whether someone has any deal-breakers soon seems rather strange to me. I’ve never seen that piece of advice anywhere before.

“You just can’t let that happen naturally and really try to get to know someone as a person when you are so focused on reducing them to their attributes/history/whatever.”

So you get to know someone. It takes a year. They tell you a few deal-breakers (oh I don’t know, they’re long-time member of a Neo-Nazi group). Then what? What did you achieve? You didn’t reduce them to attributes/history, but at some point you have to make an evaluation. On what do you make an evaluation? Attributes/history/etc. So in the end, did you really see beyond those elements?

I know a few people who took their time with dating. They’re not married now. They likely never will. So yes, they let it “happen naturally”, but they also missed out on more opportunities. And marriage, which was their goal.

“If they where of an addictive nature she should have just said, you know, one day we may have a bigger discussion about it, but for now you only need to know that I’ve confessed my sins and I’m walking with God and leave it there, then when the time comes she could have discussed these things while being totally honest.”

If a guy withheld the fact that he’s addicted to pornography (something that rarely goes away), do you think his girlfriend is going to be happy about that? No Catholic in their right mind would marry someone with a pornography addiction. No one wants to marry someone with the potential for, or fallout from, an STD. And if someone thinks they can hide these things until their partner/fiancé ends up feeling obligated to marry because of being strung along, they frankly deserve much worse than heartbreak. Wasting people’s time (which is limited, for the people who aren’t aware) is really insensitive. It’s even worse if the person being tricked has passed up opportunities to date other people.

 

[TriciaF]

Perhaps I am misreading this, but it certainly seems as though several posters are vilifying the OP’s fiance

Hii Yes I think you are misreading as there seems a bit of tunnel vision in your posts if I am not mistaken. No poster has vilified the OPs fiance. What appear to be the case is that most posters seem to see not just the terrible lies but other things going on here in this relationship also. We all have our viewpoints and each person has some aspect to contribute, and yes, lying is a terrible sin. We all do know that.

vilify ˈvɪlɪˌfaɪ]
vb -fies, -fying, -fied (tr)
1.** to revile with abusive or defamatory language**; malign he has been vilified in the tabloid press
2. Rare to make vile; debase; degrade
[from Late Latin vīlificāre, from Latin vīlis worthless + facere to make]

It’s understandable that you feel a little judgemental, as some see all the colors that are present and some are more naturally keyed to seeing in black and white, but each kind of nature has it’s wonderful value and each contributes to an understanding of the whole. God has made us as we are to help to challenge each other so that a true balance is attained.
As Catholic, we agree, premarital sex is a sin, lying is sin…we acknowledge those as truths of our Catholic faith.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Perhaps I am misreading this, but it certainly seems as though several posters are vilifying the OP’s fiance for wanting to be told the truth rather than lies (lying is an intrinsic evil, by the way), **as well as to be saying that because one has confessed and received absolution, one can pretend the sins never occurred. “Sure I slept around, but I confessed. Now when anyone asks I can just say I am a virgin! After all, my sins are gone!”
**
Imagine if a man had had a problem with porn. Would anyone be so quick to say he has a “right” to hide that from his fiancee/girlfriend discerning marriage?

Privacy is not an intrinsic good.

OF COURSE we’re not saying that! The person knows better. Having our sins absolved does not remove the temporal consequences of our sins! Please don’t try to reduce this issue to such simplistic and absurd statements.

We’re not talking about “rights” to hide information. We are talking about

DISCRETION.