Lies about sexual past

[Trishie]

He said he’ll marry me because he’s confused, and he feels obligated to since we’ve come so far. He feels like he proposed under false pretenses though. I do want to be his wife, but should I let him marry me? Are there too many outside constraints?

It would be very unwise to marry your fiance while he thinks and feels like this.
He isn’t, in his mind, engaged to you but to the person he thought you were.
He won’t be marrying that person, but someone he disapproves of.
How can the marriage be loving and happy?
Marriage is a LONG TIME to be with someone who disapproves of you.

And it is a terrible way to go into marriage, feeling like he thinks you’re actually not fit to be his wife. Because this is the message he has given you.
Trust, so important in marriage, is now damaged…he now sees you as a liar, on top of seeing you as a sexual sinner.
Someone who responds as he does…in marriage there will be occasions when you are afraid to tell him the truth, and he will continue to see you as a liar when he catches you out.

Personally I think if God forgives and allows a new beginning, and Jesus did so with Magdalen, a loving partner should. And I also would expect that you have far greater value than you now have in his judgement. You made unwise choices. You repented those, and choose to live as God desires.
You deserve to be loved as God loves.

I think you could both be wise at least to take a break
and I think you would be unwise to go ahead with the marriage as things currently stand.

I am sad. It is a painful and difficult situation. My prayers.

 

[Sillara]

Trishie, often I agree with you, but this time, I find I cannot agree AT ALL.

From your post above, it makes it seem as though you blame the OP’s fiance for the troubles. In fact, it is entirely the OP’s own fault. Lying is an intrinsic evil. She has lied to her fiance, lied about something terribly important (her own chastity) and something that he absolutely has the right to know if they are discerning marriage.

On top of her sexual activities (and I think that many, many people on this board try to diminish the temporal consequences of female sexual activity while maintaining that porn viewing has dire temporal consequences—which it does, but so, even more, does sexual activity!), the OP lied to her fiance. Lying destroys trust. Trust is completely necessary in marriage, and we owe truth to one another in general, but even more so to a spouse.

Lies are poisonous, and it is perfectly understandable that the OP’s fiance would now have grave doubts about her. If she were willing to lie about this, what ELSE would she be willing to lie about? She might claim that she would be truthful, but she has already lied. How can he believe her? There are threads and threads on here about how to rebuild trust, how hard it is, and yet I got the impression from your post that you blamed the fiance for this. How is it his fault that his then-girlfriend, now fiancee, lied to him?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Do you think a person should fall in love before asking, thereby making a potential breakup harder? Or someone withhold something they know will affect the other person’s decision?

How early is “early”?

Unfortunately yes, some things are just not going to be talked about before love and a sense of trust have been built. A prime example of this for me is my mental health. If I were to suddenly find myself single and back in to the dating world I would not feel comfortable telling anyone about my mental health history, my hospitalization, suicide attempts, etc until I felt like I could really trust them. And yes, that means that it is very likely that at that point love would be involved. But from the perspective of the person with the skeletons why would I divulge my deepest, darkest, most painful and shameful secrets unless there is a reason to believe that they will matter? That is, why risk someone knowing all of these things if we don’t have reasonable shot at a life together? Of course that’s a dealbreaker for some, but that’s a risk when it comes to love and dating.

If someone asked outright before that level of trust had been built I would be very taken aback and put off. You are never entitled to someone’s personal life unless you are thinking of committing your life to theirs. I wouldn’t lie of course, but I would set boundaries and make it clear that there are things that we just can’t discuss until we have an open and trusting relationship. If they made assumptions and walked away, good riddance. I will have probably missed my chance with a nosy, invasive, socially inept snob.

In short, hearing any sugar coated version of “Before I invest time in getting to know you as a person you need to open up to me about ______________” is at best a red flag, at worst a dealbreaker in and of itself.

But of course, the OP should not have lied. She should have either been truthful about her history or been truthful about not being ready to talk about it from the start. She should never have lied.

 

[Trishie]

Fair comment, Sillara …but no I don’t blame him. I’m responding to her issues.

He is of course dreadfully hurt, and what you say is true, but I was concentrating upon impressing on her the awful consequences of going forward when her fiance feels obligated to marry. I was hoping to prevent her from just drifting along with the engagement and marriage just because he didn’t feel he could pull out. When people want to hang onto the other person they will often shut their eyes to the realities involved.
I wanted to shock her into realizing that isn’t the wise or the happy thing right now, under the present circumstances. But is isn’t my place to judge or condemn either.

I have a wonderful husband who cannot tolerate not being told a fact that may not even affect him at all. It doesn’t matter how innocent or protective of others, not to reveal any information is lying. I know how fearful that can make one even in innocent circumstances, so I wanted her to know that her fiance will now be alert to any hint of lack of disclosure. My husband is also very moral, and if I behaved badly I’d have his swift judgement. It’s bad enough to only be caught being a dill, making a mistake, saying something silly, trying to hard to help someone and getting it wrong. I love my husband and he is a good man, but I do know that if this girl marries this man now, without some major discernment and guidance, if at all, both have a lot of unhappiness ahead.

True, I wasn’t concentrating on him, but he wasn’t posting. I’m aware that he feels betrayed and confused, but I knew she was already wretched for the harm she has done and for her past sins, but rather than concentrate on them which are between God, her boyfriend and herself, my focus was to help her realize that marriage if her fiance feels obligated, is a mistake and unfair… when in fact, to his understanding he was engaged to another person in his mind, someone he thought she was…I just desperately hoped that she would not allow things to drift on just because she loves him and doesn’t want to let him go, because from what one often finds in this forum, people do go ahead and marry, eyes closed to serious red flags. As things stands this couple could be very unhappy, for both.

When concentrating on one aspect of a problem, one does not always address every issue…and if this young man was my son, I would be very distressed if in this situation he and his fiancee went ahead until or unless these major issues of trust and identity are resolved.

 

[hannajomar]

I want to say that, while you realize you’ve made mistakes, you did the right thing by coming clean before you were married. That did take courage on your part.
How much time is there before your wedding is scheduled? If it’s very close, I will echo what others have said, to cancel everything and to start your relationship over if that’s what you both want. You told him so that he could have all the information he needs to truly decide if he wants to marry you - without pressure or being backed into a corner. And from your end, do you really want him to marry you because he feels obligated? Probably not.
This is truly a difficult time for you both. God bless the two of you in all the tough decisions ahead.

 

[Chevaleresse]

“Unfortunately yes, some things [stuff (✿◠‿◠)] comes to love and dating.”

The costs (emotional, time, and so on, etc) of that style of dating are too high, in my mind. I prefer the exchange-dealbreaker-lists-before-you-fall-in-love approach. Usually a person has to reveal only very little.

“If someone asked outright before that level of trust had been built I would be very taken aback and put off. You are never entitled to someone’s personal life unless you are thinking of committing your life to theirs.”

This seems strange to me. Only when you’re thinking about committing your life to them you get to find out if you want to commit to them? It sounds almost like a circular reference. People get to the stage of potentially committing because they lack information.

“I wouldn’t lie of course, but I would set boundaries and make it clear that there are things that we just can’t discuss until we have an open and trusting relationship. If they made assumptions and walked away, good riddance. I will have probably missed my chance with a nosy, invasive, socially inept snob.”

Some people have gone through experiences like the OPs fiancé and don’t want a repeat of that. In the case of the OP, waiting until the point of engagement to tell her fiancé something that could likely make him think twice about marrying her is frankly mean and insensitive. All this trouble could have been avoided.

“In short, hearing any sugar coated version of “Before I invest time in getting to know you as a person you need to open up to me about ______________” is at best a red flag, at worst a dealbreaker in and of itself.”

The question is “how open?”. “Do you have a criminal record” is different from “Do you have a criminal record? and if so, please list the crimes”. People who have gotten lucky with the person they’re dating not having (m)any deal-breakers don’t often see a problem with waiting until very far into a relationship. People who *aren’t *so lucky, however…

Basically, I don’t see the point in waiting six months to a year (just going from experience) to find out that a person is not compatible. The window for dating in life isn’t that big if people are interested in having kids. Wasting a year (let’s say) is not productive and actually makes future dating harder.

The OP’s fiancé may have been understanding of her past and moved on, but even that possibility is forgone now. Lots of guys have problems with sexual pasts, but just about every single guy is going to have trouble with lying/deception.

 

[Chrish1975]

My fiancé made it very clear that he cannot live with lying in a relationship after he discovered a lie I told him early on in the relationship. I promised I would never lie to him again. I had some circumstances regarding past sexual sins that I felt I could not reveal so I lied to him repeatedly and convincingly. He thought some things I said didn’t add up so he questioned me over and over and I lied again and again. I realized as we became closer to the sacrament that I could not enter into a covenant with these lies between us so I slowly throughout a week confessed everything. He does not know what to do. He’s struggling with a different image of who he thought I was along with feelings of betrayal over the lies. He said he’ll marry me because he’s confused, and he feels obligated to since we’ve come so far. He feels like he proposed under false pretenses though. I do want to be his wife, but should I let him marry me? Are there too many outside constraints?

I just don’t think he can trust you now. Sorry to be so honest, but a painful breakup is better then a painful marriage then divorce.
In a relationship just be who you really are and if a man can’t accept you with all your faults then he isn’t the man for you.

 

[Tavila1106]

For the record, he is much more upset about the lies than my sexual activity. I told him about big issues then instead of telling him i’d prefer to not discuss details I lied to make myself out better. When he says he wouldn’t have proposed he meant he would have waited.

 

[EasterJoy]

For the record, he is much more upset about the lies than my sexual activity. I told him about big issues then instead of telling him i’d prefer to not discuss details I lied to make myself out better. When he says he wouldn’t have proposed he meant he would have waited.

Oh, I’m sure he is. The sexual past is in the past, but the lies are in the here and now.

If he says he would have waited, then insist that you actually wait. Really. You do not want to go through life wondering if he has regrets because he married you out of some false sense of obligation. You don’t want him wondering. That is no way to live. At least break off the engagement and take the date off the calendar (if you have one), and require that he not propose again for at least three months. This is one area of regret you can both live without.

 

[Tavila1106]

Some seemed to be under the impression that he is saying that he loves me less due to my past sins. I just don’t want people to believe that is his thought process. He is not holding my past against me though it certainly hurts him.

 

[EasterJoy]

Some seemed to be under the impression that he is saying that he loves me less due to my past sins. I just don’t want people to believe that is his thought process. He is not holding my past against me though it certainly hurts him.

But the dishonesty hurts him and concerns him the most. That is understandable. It is a good idea to break off the engagement, and to enforce enough of a delay that he will feel free not to propose again, if that is what he decides to do. That way, if he does propose again, you will both feel your feet on much better ground.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

My fiancé made it very clear that he cannot live with lying in a relationship after he discovered a lie I told him early on in the relationship. I promised I would never lie to him again. I had some circumstances regarding past sexual sins that I felt I could not reveal so I lied to him repeatedly and convincingly. He thought some things I said didn’t add up so he questioned me over and over and I lied again and again. I realized as we became closer to the sacrament that I could not enter into a covenant with these lies between us so I slowly throughout a week confessed everything. He does not know what to do. He’s struggling with a different image of who he thought I was along with feelings of betrayal over the lies. He said he’ll marry me because he’s confused, and he feels obligated to since we’ve come so far. He feels like he proposed under false pretenses though. I do want to be his wife, but should I let him marry me? Are there too many outside constraints?

This is not addressed specifically to the OP but I have some questions about “peoples’ pasts”.

Just how much information about ones’ past is necessary and appropriate? I often read about couples giving full disclosure and it seems like it always leads to hurt feelings. At what point does one disclose this information? If it’s disclosed too early, then how many people many people will be privvy to this information? Either of the parties may decide it’s not working out for any reason but now that personal information is out there and once it is, there is no getting it back. Your date is not a priest and cannot absolve you. Sometimes it seems people over-share in order to get affirmation that they are still worthy or lovable or whatever. If a person has confessed, has been to the doctor to make sure they don’t have any STIs then I don’t know how much more a person needs to know.

Then again, wait too long and two people who have strong feelings for each other and are seriously thinking about marriage are thrown for a loop by something that is a real concern.

I think there are things that one should know, but others not so much. If a person wants someone who is a virgin, and it’s a deal breaker then that person should should say that in an early conversation and someone who doesn’t fit that criteria can either decline future dates or not ask on future dates. No one has to say they are not a virgin or whatever. Talking about chastity in general should be something that Catholic singles should have a good handle on. Perhaps their date doesn’t and then they should be able to talk about why it is important to them.

Lying is a different matter but I wonder if what was being asked absolutely necessary as in a deal breaker. Did he really want to know? For what reason did he want to know? Did the OP’s sense go against that?

We don’t know from the OP what was asked and then how it was answered. Talking with a priest sounds likea good idea. Without knowing more information (and the OP should not feel compelled to share more than is prudent!) it is probably a good idea to postpone the wedding. I have a lot of respect for people who are honest with themselves and will cancel or postpone a wedding. It will take guts but fewer regrets.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is not addressed specifically to the OP but I have some questions about “peoples’ pasts”.

Just how much information about ones’ past is necessary and appropriate? I often read about couples giving full disclosure and it seems like it always leads to hurt feelings. At what point does one disclose this information? If it’s disclosed too early, then how many people many people will be privvy to this information? Either of the parties may decide it’s not working out for any reason but now that personal information is out there and once it is, there is no getting it back. Your date is not a priest and cannot absolve you. Sometimes it seems people over-share in order to get affirmation that they are still worthy or lovable or whatever. If a person has confessed, has been to the doctor to make sure they don’t have any STIs then I don’t know how much more a person needs to know.

Then again, wait too long and two people who have strong feelings for each other and are seriously thinking about marriage are thrown for a loop by something that is a real concern.

I think there are things that one should know, but others not so much. If a person wants someone who is a virgin, and it’s a deal breaker then that person should should say that in an early conversation and someone who doesn’t fit that criteria can either decline future dates or not ask on future dates. No one has to say they are not a virgin or whatever. Talking about chastity in general should be something that Catholic singles should have a good handle on. Perhaps their date doesn’t and then they should be able to talk about why it is important to them.

Lying is a different matter but I wonder if what was being asked absolutely necessary as in a deal breaker. Did he really want to know? For what reason did he want to know? Did the OP’s sense go against that?

We don’t know from the OP what was asked and then how it was answered. Talking with a priest sounds likea good idea. Without knowing more information (and the OP should not feel compelled to share more than is prudent!) it is probably a good idea to postpone the wedding. I have a lot of respect for people who are honest with themselves and will cancel or postpone a wedding. It will take guts but fewer regrets.

I think that’s negotiable. I think it is advisable for each person to say, “When you’re ready to talk about it (or before our relationship goes beyond the point of _____), I’d like to know _____, but as for ______, that’s TMI” or “I’ll answer questions about _______, but when it comes to ______, that comes under the category of kiss and tell (or whatever), and so I’m not going there” or, being questioned to say, “I beg your pardon? I’m sorry, but I don’t think we’re to the point where we ought to feel free to ask such personal questions.” Then you negotiate, although, not in the sit-down-once-and-for-all-in-a-smoke-filled-room-and-get-'er-done sense. I mean that you feel each other out concerning what you want to tell and what the other person wants or feels he/she needs to know, and vice versa.

Yes: No lying–that is the only issue the OP raised here–and the consensus answer that it is a bad idea to marry someone who seems to have reservations about you. That’s all we need to know.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I think that’s negotiable. I think it is advisable for each person to say, “When you’re ready to talk about it (or before our relationship goes beyond the point of _____), I’d like to know _____, but as for ______, that’s TMI” or “I’ll answer questions about _______, but when it comes to ______, that comes under the category of kiss and tell (or whatever), and so I’m not going there” or, being questioned to say, “I beg your pardon? I’m sorry, but I don’t think we’re to the point where we ought to feel free to ask such personal questions.” Then you negotiate, although, not in the sit-down-once-and-for-all-in-a-smoke-filled-room-and-get-'er-done sense. I mean that you feel each other out concerning what you want to tell and what the other person wants or feels he/she needs to know, and vice versa.

Yes: No lying–that is the only issue the OP raised here–and the consensus answer that it is a bad idea to marry someone who seems to have reservations about you. That’s all we need to know.

Just to be clear, I know where I stand on what I think is appropriate to get into. I just wanted to know what others thought. It seems like singles feel the need to overshare because of the “Oprah” culture or something.

Not being chaste makes things very messy.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Just to be clear, I know where I stand on what I think is appropriate to get into. I just wanted to know what others thought. **It seems like singles feel the need to overshare because of the “Oprah” culture or something.
**
Not being chaste makes things very messy.

American society has been confused about honesty and lying for a while now. Keeping some things private is not lying. Some secrets should NEVER be told, and people have a right to privacy in some things. Catholics, especially, ought to know that what is between them and their priest doesn’t really have to be discussed with others.

To me, the key is in recognizing whether the person you are dating believes that FULL DISCLOSURE is 100% necessary, and why that person believes this. I am suspicious of those who demand that sort of confession - it almost becomes an inquisition, and much damage is done to the person who does not wish to divulge particular details. It sounds as though the OP’s fiance’ was badgering her for details which she did not wish to give, and lies came out instead. When people feel backed into a corner, sometimes a defense mechanism comes out. That is why I do not think it’s fair to scold her about her lies. She felt pressed into a corner and made a poor decision, but I do think her fiance’ bears some responsibility for continuing to press her for more information.

It seems a no-win situation, because if the person under pressure does NOT divulge, their loved one is not going to trust him/her, but if details ARE given, then the relationship will be damaged in a different way.

 

[bck4g36as]

I have a longer list of things so a guy won’t really have to feel uncomfortable. I just ask “do any of these apply?”. I’ve also gotten really good a detecting lies. I should become a private detective if I don’t marry. LOL.

But, yeah, you shouldn’t really be asking on the first date, but the last thing I want to do is fall in love and then find out.

I thought I was perhaps seeing things when I read the underlined (regarding a woman not desperate to marry). Reading your other posts however, well, you should be venerated

And ‘falling in love’? Why not do that after the necessary discretion and subsequently discrimination is exercised? It’ll save you quite the time and effort.

 

[bck4g36as]

Regarding the initial poster – your fiancé has more trouble with you lying than – to put this rather bluntly, but very honestly – having zero self-respect?

Hopefully your ‘past’ actually stays in the past (improbable, not impossible) but you both have some seriously distorted beliefs you have to work on and I suspect a good amount of them – I mean, just the poor level of discretion from someone like the man that feels obligated to marry you because ‘you’ve come so far’ is unsurprising given the aforementioned plus the other details in your first post – beliefs I presume you would want to work on, if you marry this man at all (which looks like folly because of having to fix so much).

I mean lying? If you can’t get that right, then you have quite a few issues with basic boundaries, which is a given knowing the calibre of person I’m dealing with (i.e. had sex with someone or even multiple others other than her spouse).

Please, the both of you, if you’re going to move forward with this, which I personally don’t suggest, read the book Boundaries by Henry Cloud.

 

[EasterJoy]

Just to be clear, I know where I stand on what I think is appropriate to get into. I just wanted to know what others thought. It seems like singles feel the need to overshare because of the “Oprah” culture or something.

Not being chaste makes things very messy.

Well, and not marrying someone from your home town makes things messy, too. (But, as some of us from small towns have found, eventually the offspring are forced to date elsewhere in order to avoid consanguinity ! )

I agree, though: I think there is a tendency to unload way too much of yourself and your family history onto others. Most of the time, if they haven’t asked, they don’t want to know.

 

[Chevaleresse]

“I often read about couples giving full disclosure and it seems like it always leads to hurt feelings.”

If a person doesn’t have anything to hide, then there won’t be hurt feelings. OTOH, I’ve heard of both men and women breaking up with people simply because the person didn’t have anything to hide; they thought they were lying.

“Either of the parties may decide it’s not working out for any reason but now that personal information is out there and once it is, there is no getting it back.”

I carry around NDAs.

“has been to the doctor to make sure they don’t have any STIs”

Not that simple. There’s some pretty crazy strains going around now that don’t show until later and also go undetected by tests. They can also lie about those too.

“absolutely necessary as in a deal breaker”

For some people it is a deal-breaker.

“It sounds as though the OP’s fiance’ was badgering her for details which she did not wish to give, and lies came out instead.”

The OP stated that her fiancé didn’t think things were “adding up”, so he asked again. If things did “add up”, he likely wouldn’t have been as inquisitive. If someone is lying to me, and things don’t seem right, I tend to ask more questions not less. I sometimes get them to tell the story backwards. LOL. Interrogation methods FTW. (◕‿◕)

“That is why I do not think it’s fair to scold her about her lies.”

Nope. It’s absolutely fair. Lying like that leads to horrible situations. Sort of like the one she’s in now. But she isn’t the only victim of her lies…

“if details ARE given, then the relationship will be damaged in a different way.”

It’s better to tell more than less. The more you know before marriage, the better. Finding out afterwards is going to be damage^squared.

–

Since most Catholic men and women have at least a few things to hide these days, dating becomes sort of like a game of “Battleship”; trying to expose less of your own dark secrets while trying to find out/guess the ones of your partner before the time for commitment comes (“end of the game”). All the more reason to wait.

 

[ValPal]

Some seemed to be under the impression that he is saying that he loves me less due to my past sins. I just don’t want people to believe that is his thought process. He is not holding my past against me though it certainly hurts him.

Fact is, you have to rebuild trust, which would include never lying to him again. If he asks a question that is really uncomfortable, simply state that it is uncomfortable and that you don’t want to answer it yet. Don’t ever lie to the person who may be your potential spouse, because one’s spouse is ultimately the one you will be able to trust more than anyone in your life.

My spouse had issues in her past that would normally concern me for a potential spouse. The reason that I glossed over them was simply because of her flat-out honesty on those issues. It actually shocked me how honest she was. But that is exactly the type of person that I wanted to marry; someone who trusts me enough to throw all her cards on the table, regardless of consequences. That’s the best approach to take…at least once the potential spouses reach the point of seriously considering marriage.