Life after death

[Mystic3]

The doctor Elisabeth Kübler-Ross published her book „Interviews with the Dying“ in 1969. This book consists of an extensive discussion concerning death in Western societies. Kübler-Ross stumbled upon the amazing fact that many people were able to encounter the other side during their brief deaths (before they returned to their bodies and to life). During their lives on Earth, blind people can sometimes suddenly see from the other side. They can observe what happens on earth from the beyond. How could a blind person suddenly get knocked unconscious during the course of a car accident and then be able to see other people in the area of the accident and then describe the circumstances after being revived?

In 1975 Raymond Moody wrote the book „Life After Death“. In this book, he documented the near-death experiences of 150 people. Many reported that after death they travelled through a dark tunnel and then arrived at a dimension of light. In the light world, they met holy light beings and even their already death relatives. They learned things they didn’t know before. After their near-death experiences, many people changed their lives completely and then oriented themselves around spirituality.

The biggest scientific breakthrough occurred in 1991. The 35 year-old Pam Reynolds underwent a brain operation. Her blood was routed from her brain and she was placed in a state of artifical coma. Her head was attached with wires to measure brain waves. It was ascertained that no brain waves could travel during this half an hour. The thought processes were blocked, and as such no hormone release could occur. Hallucinations were not possible in this state. And it just so happened that Pam Reynolds had her out of body experience at this time. She floated with her soul out of her body. She observed from above all of the details of her operation. She then floated through a tunnel to a world of light. There, she met her dead grandmother and other people. The beings there lived in a paradise dimension and possessed positive energy. With their energy, they strengthened Ms. Reynolds so that she could go through her operation successfully. In a BBC interview, Pam Reynolds explained that she had experienced the breath of God.

The special aspect of the case of Pam Reynolds lies with the fact that modern measurement equipment showed that the consciousness of a person exists even when the stuff of the brain is shut off. This leads one to conclude that there must be an independent consciousness separate from the body. The body and soul are two independent manifestations of energy. If the soul is independent from the body, she can live further after the death. The bible is right. There is a life in the afterworld after the death of the body.

The newest finding: youtube.com/watch?v=GzLAvMAkx2s Interview with Cardiologist and NDE Researcher Dr. Pim Van Lommel (video 2010)]. Even if the brain does no longer work, people can have a clear awareness - an awareness that forces us to rethink about life and death. People who were on the verge of death, report after her recovery, often of extraordinary conscious experiences: they took advantage of a beautiful landscape and a healing light and felt indescribable happiness. They saw themselves from above, and could afterwards give details information on the environment - in spite of their unconsciousness. How is this possible? Pim van Lommel found out that consciousness need not be tied to a functioning body. A result which attracted much attention and has been published in the leading medical journal The Lancet. Van Lommel’s thesis is: The brain acts only as a recipient of an infinite consciousness that does not cease to exist after death.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

The doctor Elisabeth Kübler-Ross published her book „Interviews with the Dying“ in 1969. This book consists of an extensive discussion concerning death in Western societies. Kübler-Ross stumbled upon the amazing fact that many people were able to encounter the other side during their brief deaths (before they returned to their bodies and to life). During their lives on Earth, blind people can sometimes suddenly see from the other side. They can observe what happens on earth from the beyond. How could a blind person suddenly get knocked unconscious during the course of a car accident and then be able to see other people in the area of the accident and then describe the circumstances after being revived?

In 1975 Raymond Moody wrote the book „Life After Death“. In this book, he documented the near-death experiences of 150 people. Many reported that after death they travelled through a dark tunnel and then arrived at a dimension of light. In the light world, they met holy light beings and even their already death relatives. They learned things they didn’t know before. After their near-death experiences, many people changed their lives completely and then oriented themselves around spirituality.

The biggest scientific breakthrough occurred in 1991. The 35 year-old Pam Reynolds underwent a brain operation. Her blood was routed from her brain and she was placed in a state of artifical coma. Her head was attached with wires to measure brain waves. It was ascertained that no brain waves could travel during this half an hour. The thought processes were blocked, and as such no hormone release could occur. Hallucinations were not possible in this state. And it just so happened that Pam Reynolds had her out of body experience at this time. She floated with her soul out of her body. She observed from above all of the details of her operation. She then floated through a tunnel to a world of light. There, she met her dead grandmother and other people. The beings there lived in a paradise dimension and possessed positive energy. With their energy, they strengthened Ms. Reynolds so that she could go through her operation successfully. In a BBC interview, Pam Reynolds explained that she had experienced the breath of God.

The special aspect of the case of Pam Reynolds lies with the fact that modern measurement equipment showed that the consciousness of a person exists even when the stuff of the brain is shut off. This leads one to conclude that there must be an independent consciousness separate from the body. The body and soul are two independent manifestations of energy. If the soul is independent from the body, she can live further after the death. The bible is right. There is a life in the afterworld after the death of the body.

The newest finding: youtube.com/watch?v=GzLAvMAkx2s Interview with Cardiologist and NDE Researcher Dr. Pim Van Lommel (video 2010)]. Even if the brain does no longer work, people can have a clear awareness - an awareness that forces us to rethink about life and death. People who were on the verge of death, report after her recovery, often of extraordinary conscious experiences: they took advantage of a beautiful landscape and a healing light and felt indescribable happiness. They saw themselves from above, and could afterwards give details information on the environment - in spite of their unconsciousness. How is this possible? Pim van Lommel found out that consciousness need not be tied to a functioning body. A result which attracted much attention and has been published in the leading medical journal The Lancet. Van Lommel’s thesis is: The brain acts only as a recipient of an infinite consciousness that does not cease to exist after death.

Whatever the answer is these people were not " ontologically " dead. According to medical science they were dead but according to the call of God they were not. Of course there have been cases when Jesus, one of the prophets, one of the Apostles or some Saint really did bring someone back to life. But none of these people ever explained what had happened " on the other side. "

 

[greylorn]

The doctor Elisabeth Kübler-Ross published her book „Interviews with the Dying“ in 1969. This book consists of an extensive discussion concerning death in Western societies. Kübler-Ross stumbled upon the amazing fact that many people were able to encounter the other side during their brief deaths (before they returned to their bodies and to life). During their lives on Earth, blind people can sometimes suddenly see from the other side. They can observe what happens on earth from the beyond. How could a blind person suddenly get knocked unconscious during the course of a car accident and then be able to see other people in the area of the accident and then describe the circumstances after being revived?

In 1975 Raymond Moody wrote the book „Life After Death“. In this book, he documented the near-death experiences of 150 people. Many reported that after death they travelled through a dark tunnel and then arrived at a dimension of light. In the light world, they met holy light beings and even their already death relatives. They learned things they didn’t know before. After their near-death experiences, many people changed their lives completely and then oriented themselves around spirituality.

The biggest scientific breakthrough occurred in 1991. The 35 year-old Pam Reynolds underwent a brain operation. Her blood was routed from her brain and she was placed in a state of artifical coma. Her head was attached with wires to measure brain waves. It was ascertained that no brain waves could travel during this half an hour. The thought processes were blocked, and as such no hormone release could occur. Hallucinations were not possible in this state. And it just so happened that Pam Reynolds had her out of body experience at this time. She floated with her soul out of her body. She observed from above all of the details of her operation. She then floated through a tunnel to a world of light. There, she met her dead grandmother and other people. The beings there lived in a paradise dimension and possessed positive energy. With their energy, they strengthened Ms. Reynolds so that she could go through her operation successfully. In a BBC interview, Pam Reynolds explained that she had experienced the breath of God.

The special aspect of the case of Pam Reynolds lies with the fact that modern measurement equipment showed that the consciousness of a person exists even when the stuff of the brain is shut off. This leads one to conclude that there must be an independent consciousness separate from the body. The body and soul are two independent manifestations of energy. If the soul is independent from the body, she can live further after the death. The bible is right. There is a life in the afterworld after the death of the body.

The newest finding: youtube.com/watch?v=GzLAvMAkx2s Interview with Cardiologist and NDE Researcher Dr. Pim Van Lommel (video 2010)]. Even if the brain does no longer work, people can have a clear awareness - an awareness that forces us to rethink about life and death. People who were on the verge of death, report after her recovery, often of extraordinary conscious experiences: they took advantage of a beautiful landscape and a healing light and felt indescribable happiness. They saw themselves from above, and could afterwards give details information on the environment - in spite of their unconsciousness. How is this possible? Pim van Lommel found out that consciousness need not be tied to a functioning body. A result which attracted much attention and has been published in the leading medical journal The Lancet. Van Lommel’s thesis is: The brain acts only as a recipient of an infinite consciousness that does not cease to exist after death.

The material you cite is all good stuff, and just the tip of an iceberg. (You’ve probably never even heard of F.W.H. Myers’ Human Personality and the Survival of Bodily Death, written long before your mother was born.

According to Thomas Kuhn, Structure of Scientific Revolutions, none of this evidence will be taken seriously until someone devises a good theoretical explanation for it. If your thread survives more than a few weeks, you will note that not even Catholics are interested. That is because the Church has no theory to explain the evidence— its learned scholars are too busy with something else more important than bringing theology and science closer together.

There is only one theory that I know of which deals with this subject effectively.

 

[Mystic3]

Whatever the answer is these people were not " ontologically " dead. According to medical science they were dead but according to the call of God they were not. Of course there have been cases when Jesus, one of the prophets, one of the Apostles or some Saint really did bring someone back to life. But none of these people ever explained what had happened " on the other side. "

Hi Linusthe2nd.

Clairvoyants and enlightened can see into the afterlife and report how it is there. Jesus and Paul knew the afterlife. I too have experienced it and can report on it. There are many reports. I have compiled the most important information here shortly.

Paradise Meditation

With this meditation, we learn something about the way to Paradise.

The Body

We concentrate on our bodies and through this process bring the spirit into a state of peace. We sense this through our legs and feet as we let the light circulate through our lower limbs. We think of the word “light” as our mantra. We let the light then circulate through our arms and hands while envisioning the word “light”. We then wrap our entire bodies in a vision of light and think of the word at the same time. Then we relax.

Energy Cloud

We begin our ascent to heaven. First we enter the astral world. We become a soul. We then visualize a cloud composed of very fine energy which encircles the body. We are this cloud. We concentrate on the cloud and not our bodies. We leave the body and think of the mantra “I am a cloud. I am a soul. I am independent from my body.” We think of this mantra until we can feel this cloud.

Stars

We visualize the entire cosmos around us as full of stars. Our souls can travel anywhere they so desire. We meditate on the cosmos. We think of the mantra “stars”. We make large circles with the arms until we feel at one with the cosmos. We feel secure with our place in the world, we are at one with the world.

The World of Positive Souls

We land in the upper astral world, beyond the material cosmos. This is the world of positive souls. We become positive unto ourselves. We consider the positive points in our lives. We think of the mantra “Positive in my life is…” We count as many positive things as possible, until the soul is glowing with positivity.

The World of Happy Souls

Over the positive souls are the blessed souls. We are now in paradise. We imagine that all our wishes have been fulfilled. What do you wish? Fulfill them or let go of them here. Define the point where you have reached enough. Create contentment with your life. “My way to contentment is…”

The World of the Holy

Above the world of the happy souls lies the world of the enlightened. We become sons and daughters of God, Gods and Goddesses, enlightened Buddhas. We wish for a happy world. We envision the following: “I send light to… May all people be happy. May the world be a happy world.”

The Great Transformation

We move our hand to bless the entire cosmos with love and light. We move light into all areas of suffering. We send all suffering beings light. We surround them with light and think of the mantra “I send light to all suffering beings”. We think of all the problems in our lives and surround these problems with light. We integrate our problems into our life. We become masters of our lives. We surround all our life’s situations with light.

Seventh Heaven

We come to the seventh heaven. We visualize a sun with strong energy composed of peace, love and happiness. The hands lay relaxed in the lap. We think of the mantra, “Om sun, peace, love, happiness, living in the light.“ We fill our souls with peace, love, happiness and light, and rest in the light of God (in bliss, in the enlightenment energy).

God

We connect ourselves with God or Jesus. We rub the palms of our hands in front of the heart chakra and think, "Jesus Christ. Please guide me and help me on my way.” We feel how the energy flows with the prayer into us.

Return

We move our feet slowly, then stretch and wiggle a bit. We then return to earth and our daily lifes. We are filled with peace, love and optimism.

:blushing:

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Nonesense! Absolutely nonesense! Have your " visions " or those of any othe " mystic " here been approved by the Church.? When the Church does and not until then, you endanger your sould by spreading these these things. Beware of false prophets!

:tsktsk:

 

[Regular_Atheist]

It’s interesting to note that near-death experiences almost always match the persons religious beliefs.

 

[Jehannette]

It’s interesting to note that near-death experiences almost always match the persons religious beliefs.

Not completely true. Plenty of experiences of individuals dying and going to Hell:

youtube.com/watch?v=w-v1Fppjlvc

Most individuals have a belief that when they die that they will go to Heaven.

 

[Jehannette]

The material you cite is all good stuff, and just the tip of an iceberg. (You’ve probably never even heard of F.W.H. Myers’ Human Personality and the Survival of Bodily Death, written long before your mother was born.

According to Thomas Kuhn, Structure of Scientific Revolutions, none of this evidence will be taken seriously until someone devises a good theoretical explanation for it. If your thread survives more than a few weeks, you will note that not even Catholics are interested. That is because the Church has no theory to explain the evidence— its learned scholars are too busy with something else more important than bringing theology and science closer together.

There is only one theory that I know of which deals with this subject effectively.

What about Karl Popper? (Just kidding.) Spoken like a true materialist, however; basically, if a concept does not have a scientific paradigm to support, it is not to be taken seriously. Okay, fine. You’ll know the truth at the Last Judgment. Until then…

P.S. This is not a “threat” but a prediction; not “testable,” of course, but one that you and every other human being, without exception, will experience. To paraphrase Archbishop Fulton Sheen who, when a women at one of his public meetings stated, “Father, I do not believe in Hell,” to which he replied, “Madam, you will when you get there.”

 

[Mystic3]

Most individuals have a belief that when they die that they will go to Heaven.

That is right.

Nonesense! Absolutely nonesense! Have your " visions " or those of any othe " mystic " here been approved by the Church.? When the Church does and not until then, you endanger your sould by spreading these these things. Beware of false prophets! :tsktsk:

No nonsense. I combine faith and reason. I go with science. Near-death research is science. And it shows that the soul is independent from the body.

Wikipedia: The first clinical study of near-death experiences (NDEs) in cardiac arrest patients was by Pim van Lommel, a cardiologist from the Netherlands, and his team (The Lancet, 2001). Of 344 patients who were successfully resuscitated after suffering cardiac arrest, approximately 18% experienced “classic” NDEs, which included out-of-body experiences. The patients remembered details of their conditions during their cardiac arrest despite being clinically dead with flatlined brain stem activity. Van Lommel concluded that his findings supported the theory that consciousness continued despite lack of neuronal activity in the brain. Van Lommel conjectured that continuity of consciousness may be achievable if the brain acted as a receiver for the information generated by memories and consciousness, which existed independently of the brain, just as radio, television and internet information existed independently of the instruments that received it.

 

[User124]

It’s interesting to note that near-death experiences almost always match the persons religious beliefs.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Not completely true. Plenty of experiences of individuals dying and going to Hell:

youtube.com/watch?v=w-v1Fppjlvc

Most individuals have a belief that when they die that they will go to Heaven.

No, I mean a Muslim’s death will match his Islamic beliefs, a Christian their Christian beliefs, Hindu will see whatever he expects to see, ETC. It’s also good to note that often people have experiences of going to Heaven even when their life didn’t match the one scripture says they should have lived by.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

That is right.

No nonsense. I combine faith and reason. I go with science. Near-death research is science. And it shows that the soul is independent from the body.

Wikipedia: The first clinical study of near-death experiences (NDEs) in cardiac arrest patients was by Pim van Lommel, a cardiologist from the Netherlands, and his team (The Lancet, 2001). Of 344 patients who were successfully resuscitated after suffering cardiac arrest, approximately 18% experienced “classic” NDEs, which included out-of-body experiences. The patients remembered details of their conditions during their cardiac arrest despite being clinically dead with flatlined brain stem activity. Van Lommel concluded that his findings supported the theory that consciousness continued despite lack of neuronal activity in the brain. Van Lommel conjectured that continuity of consciousness may be achievable if the brain acted as a receiver for the information generated by memories and consciousness, which existed independently of the brain, just as radio, television and internet information existed independently of the instruments that received it.

You do realise there are logical explanations for these experiences, that don’t include the existence of Heaven?

It’s most likely oxygen deprivation of the brain.

 

[Jehannette]

No, I mean a Muslim’s death will match his Islamic beliefs, a Christian their Christian beliefs, Hindu will see whatever he expects to see, ETC. It’s also good to note that often people have experiences of going to Heaven even when their life didn’t match the one scripture says they should have lived by.

Most NDEs are pretty general, so far as I have read. Others are quite specific. In any case, it may be that the Triune God would allow a non-Catholic to first meet someone, say, Mohammed, who is of their own faith. The Catholic Church has never declared Mohammed, or anyone else for that matter, to be in Hell, but that’s a topic for another sub-forum!

 

[Mystic3]

No, I mean a Muslim’s death will match his Islamic beliefs, a Christian their Christian beliefs, Hindu will see whatever he expects to see, ETC. It’s also good to note that often people have experiences of going to Heaven even when their life didn’t match the one scripture says they should have lived by.

God is a mystery. The afterlife is a mystery. There is no material but a spiritual world. What you think in your spirit, that will happen you there. If you have lived as a good person, you will get into the good areas. You’ll see them as you can imagine it on your personal manner. Unless you’re in the highest heaven. There are no forms of thought, but only peace, love and happiness.

You do realise there are logical explanations for these experiences, that don’t include the existence of Heaven? It’s most likely oxygen deprivation of the brain.

Pam Reynolds met God (the light, the breath of God) in the afterworld. She proves, that heaven exists. And she saw the operation, while her brain was stopped. She had no brain waves, her eyes and ears were closed. Oxygen deficiency can not explain this. You can not see things outside the body with closed eyes, because you have lack of oxygen. You can see things only, if you can see with your soul. Therefore there must be a soul.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

You do realise there are logical explanations for these experiences, that don’t include the existence of Heaven?

It’s most likely oxygen deprivation of the brain.

Stop the train!! We agree on something at last!!

:extrahappy:

 

[farpinho]

Pam Reynolds met God (the light, the breath of God) in the afterworld. She proves, that heaven exists. And she saw the operation, while her brain was stopped. She had no brain waves, her eyes and ears were closed. Oxygen deficiency can not explain this. You can not see things outside the body with closed eyes, because you have lack of oxygen. You can see things only, if you can see with your soul. Therefore there must be a soul.

Are there evidences that make them absolutely sure that the experience happened at the moment she had no brainwaves at all, and not sometime before?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I don’t have much trouble accepting there’s life after death, for the simple reason that my own father materialised in my room the night he died. He started wtih an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave this absolutely terrifying scream and disappeared. He even admitted during the proceedings that “I died tonight.”

And I’ve got a peculiar anecdote to go with it.

The man who told me he’d died (4 days later as his body wasn’t found for 4 days was my mother’s brother, my uncle). I need to state this for the anecdote to make sense.

daHowever sometime around 2007 I was driving a maxi cab a couple of days a week. I also used to argue with atheists on a Google Group site. One topic was NDE"s (Near Death Experiences). As usual I was getting nowhere, and just copping the usual atheist abuse (“You’re off your meds” etc.), so I prayed I might meet someone who’d had an NDE).

A couple of days later I was in a suburb called Boondall when a job came up on the screen for a maxi taxi at Brighton, a seaside suburb a few miles away. I procrastinated for a while as I assumed there’d be a Maxi at Brighton already, but when the job stayed there I put in for it and got it.

It was for a job at Eventide, a state government nursing complex. When I got there I found a single bloke about my age who was just about to give up waiting. He hadn’t even wanted a maxi-cab, so somehow a glitch reserved the job for me. Had it been advertised for an ordinary cab, I wouldn’t even have seen it.

Anyway I picked him up and off we went towards the Royal Brisbane Hospital, which is a fairly good fair. It also gave us time to talk. We’d only been going a couple of minutes, when he suddenly remarked, “I’m one of those rare people”. I asked him what he meant, and he said he’d been technically dead for ten minutes after an operation when they removed most of his stomach.

Yet despite being dead, he could hear everything that was being said. He also saw the usual white light etc, and there was a sense of being “sent back”.

But what got me was that he went to the same high school, and some of the same classes as the eldest son of the same uncle who turned up to tell me my own father had died some 28 years earlier in 1979.

So I’d prayed to meet a someone who’d had an NDE; did so a couple of days later when a glitch reserved a job for me when I should never even have had the opportunity to get the fare; and there was even a familial ring about it - he’d gone to school with the eldest son of the man who came to tell me my own father had died, 4 days after my father had appeared in my room.

What’s the odds? I dont have much trouble believing in after death experiences. But I’m a bit cynical when people claim to have had the experience of going to heaven or hell, and then come back with vivid descriptions. St. Paul might have gone to the third heaven, but he did so in visionary form, and stated that he was told things that he was not permitted to tell.

If he wasn’t allowed to pass these things on, then I get a bit leary when more modern counterparts claim they can give us all the guff.

 

[Mystic3]

Dear Bob, thanks for your report. My father appeared to me also after his death. He gave me important information. And I once ascended to the third heaven in the afterlife. It was wonderful. There is a life after death. The atheists can not explain why you can see all the things, when you come out the body.

@ farpinho: Very small brain waves are possible, but Pam Reynold could see during her brain surgery things outside of her body, though her eyes were connected. And she could hear the conversation of the doctors, though her ears were stoppered. That proves clearly, that there is a soul independent from the body.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Dear Bob, thanks for your report. My father appeared to me also after his death. He gave me important information. And I once ascended to the third heaven in the afterlife. It was wonderful. There is a life after death. The atheists can not explain why you can see all the things, when you come out the body.

@ farpinho: Very small brain waves are possible, but Pam Reynold could see during her brain surgery things outside of her body, though her eyes were connected. And she could hear the conversation of the doctors, though her ears were stoppered. That proves clearly, that there is a soul independent from the body.

Nice to know I’m not the only one who’s had his father appear to him after death, even if the outcome was somewhat negative for him in my case.

I once went to a the charismatic Catholic mass over here (I’ve been to a couple), and one of the other blokes told me the founder of that particular group had the experience of his own father appearing to him after death as well. But since the founder died a few years ago, I don’t know what his father said to him if anything, as I can’t ask him.

My own father made some predictions eg. “You’ll meet a pastor. You’ll think he’s great, but all he’ll do is discourage you even more!” My father died in January 1979, and I met the pastor around October 1983. Probably around 1991 the pastor himself apologised to me with the words, “I owe you an apology. You needed encouragement, but all I’ve done is to discourage you even more!” I then pointed out to him he’d just quoted my “dead” father back to me almost word for word. However I learnt a lot from that pastor, despite his negativity, and I still have a high opinion of him.

There’s life after death all right. And there’s a judgment too, if my father’s final disappearing scream was anything to go by. He was terrified to the core.

PS - And in case anybody is wondering why I happened to ask the NDE bloke I picked up in the cab if he knew my cousin (uncle’s oldest son), the reason is that the uncle lived in Brighton and brought up his family there. This is the same suburb where I picked up the customer at Eventide. The customer said he’d grown up there, so I asked him if he happened to know my cousin. The rest is history.

Later I bumped into the cousin’s younger brother at the airport cab rank, who also happened to be driving a cab at the time, and asked him if he knew the NDE bloke. He didn’t know him, but it turned out the two brothers went to different high schools, so the NDE patient only knew the older brother.

That’s how the conversation arose.

 

[Poseidon]

I’ve always found things like NDEs to be extremely fascinating, although I regard them skeptically, like everything. I tend to categorize them along with UFOs, ghosts, and Bigfoot sightings - there’s enough there that I think to dismiss them without any investigation would be irresponsible, but there’s not enough evidence to accept that they actually exist. Still, it leaves me hopeful that there might be more mystery to this universe than we can possibly imagine!