Life after death

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Mystic3 said:
The doctor Elisabeth Kübler-Ross published her book „Interviews with the Dying“ in 1969. This book consists of an extensive discussion concerning death in Western societies. Kübler-Ross stumbled upon the amazing fact that many people were able to encounter the other side during their brief deaths (before they returned to their bodies and to life). During their lives on Earth, blind people can sometimes suddenly see from the other side. They can observe what happens on earth from the beyond. How could a blind person suddenly get knocked unconscious during the course of a car accident and then be able to see other people in the area of the accident and then describe the circumstances after being revived?

In 1975 Raymond Moody wrote the book „Life After Death“. In this book, he documented the near-death experiences of 150 people. Many reported that after death they travelled through a dark tunnel and then arrived at a dimension of light. In the light world, they met holy light beings and even their already death relatives. They learned things they didn’t know before. After their near-death experiences, many people changed their lives completely and then oriented themselves around spirituality.

The biggest scientific breakthrough occurred in 1991. The 35 year-old Pam Reynolds underwent a brain operation. Her blood was routed from her brain and she was placed in a state of artifical coma. Her head was attached with wires to measure brain waves. It was ascertained that no brain waves could travel during this half an hour. The thought processes were blocked, and as such no hormone release could occur. Hallucinations were not possible in this state. And it just so happened that Pam Reynolds had her out of body experience at this time. She floated with her soul out of her body. She observed from above all of the details of her operation. She then floated through a tunnel to a world of light. There, she met her dead grandmother and other people. The beings there lived in a paradise dimension and possessed positive energy. With their energy, they strengthened Ms. Reynolds so that she could go through her operation successfully. In a BBC interview, Pam Reynolds explained that she had experienced the breath of God.

The special aspect of the case of Pam Reynolds lies with the fact that modern measurement equipment showed that the consciousness of a person exists even when the stuff of the brain is shut off. This leads one to conclude that there must be an independent consciousness separate from the body. The body and soul are two independent manifestations of energy. If the soul is independent from the body, she can live further after the death. The bible is right. There is a life in the afterworld after the death of the body.

The newest finding: youtube.com/watch?v=GzLAvMAkx2s Interview with Cardiologist and NDE Researcher Dr. Pim Van Lommel (video 2010)]. Even if the brain does no longer work, people can have a clear awareness - an awareness that forces us to rethink about life and death. People who were on the verge of death, report after her recovery, often of extraordinary conscious experiences: they took advantage of a beautiful landscape and a healing light and felt indescribable happiness. They saw themselves from above, and could afterwards give details information on the environment - in spite of their unconsciousness. How is this possible? Pim van Lommel found out that consciousness need not be tied to a functioning body. A result which attracted much attention and has been published in the leading medical journal The Lancet. Van Lommel’s thesis is: The brain acts only as a recipient of an infinite consciousness that does not cease to exist after death.
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The following is pretty interesting:

youtube.com/watch?v=3rFW2lc3344
 
joe370 said:
The following is pretty interesting:

youtube.com/watch?v=3rFW2lc3344
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My question is how did she know she was seeing? If she had never experienced sight before, then she wouldn’t know what seeing actually was, so it’s possible that she was experiencing something totally different but attributed it to sight, because she didn’t know what sight actually was. Just a thought from the perennial skeptic.
 
Jehannette said:
What about Karl Popper? (Just kidding.) Spoken like a true materialist, however; basically, if a concept does not have a scientific paradigm to support, it is not to be taken seriously. Okay, fine. You’ll know the truth at the Last Judgment. Until then…

P.S. This is not a “threat” but a prediction; not “testable,” of course, but one that you and every other human being, without exception, will experience. To paraphrase Archbishop Fulton Sheen who, when a women at one of his public meetings stated, “Father, I do not believe in Hell,” to which he replied, “Madam, you will when you get there.”
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Karl Popper? Is he related to Orville Redenbacher?

You prejudge me, as dogmatists who cannot think beyond their beliefs often do. Only 4.6% of the universe is composed of matter. Only a nitwit would be a “materialist.”

BTW as best that i can interpret the belief in a post-apocalyptic, after the Second-Coming world, believers seem to figure on living on the material planet earth forever, in material bodies.

If that notion is part of your figuring, tell me what’s wrong with being a “materialist.”

In fact, I may be the only person to define the ephemeral “soul” in the context of classical physics. My definition does not pretend that the “soul” does not exist, or that it is a figment of human imagination. My soul-concept is that of a real entity, non-material, but as Descartes pointed out, connected to the world of matter by what to him was a mysterious mechanism, and what is to me an absolutely real physical mechanism. .

Now don’t you go getting “physical” confused with “material.” Lots of ignorant nitwits do that, and you do not want to be one of them.

Finally, regarding your beliefs about the last judgment. Or whatever. If my options are to live for an eternity with mindless religious believers or suffer for eternity amid real people who made their choices and did what seemed to them a good idea at the time— easy choice. If the latter is “hell,” I’ve been there for quite a while, and the worst of it was during my time as a Catholic student in Catholic schools, where beatings and derision were a common occurrence.

The best that I can hope for myself is the Nirvana of classical Buddhism. For you, I wish you to be risen to the highest possible level at the “Judgment,” and thereafter to spend an eternity in the company of like-minded individuals, celebrating your righteousness, strumming harps, singing praises, and whatever else might bring you personal fulfillment.

.
 
Poseidon;9651073]My question is how did she know she was seeing?
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She popped out of her body and recognized her ring on her hand and saw actual people, and not with here bodily eyes. Kind of cool.
If she had never experienced sight before, then she wouldn’t know what seeing actually was, so it’s possible that she was experiencing something totally different but attributed it to sight, because she didn’t know what sight actually was. Just a thought from the perennial skeptic.
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So, when she is looking down at her body and what is going on, you believe she is seeing what? The cool part is the fact that she is witnessing what is going on in the emergency room.
 
There is no life after death. Once the brain goes, that is it. Sad, but it is what it is.
I refuse to accept accounts of what life is after death from those who simply could not be bothered to tell me about it firsthand.
 
joe370 said:
She popped out of her body and recognized her ring on her hand and saw actual people, and not with here bodily eyes. Kind of cool.

So, when she is looking down at her body and what is going on, you believe she is seeing what? The cool part is the fact that she is witnessing what is going on in the emergency room.
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I have no idea what she was sensing. I’m just saying that she may have been having an experience that was not sight at all, but some other vivid conjuring of her imagination that you and I, having sight, wouldn’t ever experience. Maybe she developed some sort of mental map of the room based on sight and touch, and she thought that what she was experiencing was what others call sight.

Try to describe sight to a blind person, and you’ll find that it is impossible because it requires one to already know what it is to see. All I’m saying is that since she never experienced sight, she literally would’t know it if she saw it.
 
Poseidon said:
I have no idea what she was sensing. I’m just saying that she may have been having an experience that was not sight at all, but some other vivid conjuring of her imagination that you and I, having sight, wouldn’t ever experience. Maybe she developed some sort of mental map of the room based on sight and touch, and she thought that what she was experiencing was what others call sight.

Try to describe sight to a blind person, and you’ll find that it is impossible because it requires one to already know what it is to see. All I’m saying is that since she never experienced sight, she literally wouldn’t know it if she saw it.
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Maybe you are right, or maybe she simply heard and saw what was going on in the room with her spiritual ears and eyes. She is clearly not dreaming. If I am blind my entire life and suddenly find myself able to see, would you attribute that to having an experience that was not sight at all, but some other vivid conjuring of my imagination?
 
Poseidon said:
I have no idea what she was sensing. I’m just saying that she may have been having an experience that was not sight at all, but some other vivid conjuring of her imagination that you and I, having sight, wouldn’t ever experience. Maybe she developed some sort of mental map of the room based on sight and touch, and she thought that what she was experiencing was what others call sight.

Try to describe sight to a blind person, and you’ll find that it is impossible because it requires one to already know what it is to see. All I’m saying is that since she never experienced sight, she literally would’t know it if she saw it.
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That would be a good point if not for the considerable evidence in favor of reincarnation. If she had been in other bodies at different places and lifetimes, she would have experienced sight and would carry this experience through at the level of beon/soul.
 
greylorn said:
That would be a good point if not for the considerable evidence in favor of reincarnation. If she had been in other bodies at different places and lifetimes, she would have experienced sight and would carry this experience through at the level of beon/soul.
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Atheists believe in reincarnation? Hmm…
 
greylorn said:
The best that I can hope for myself is the Nirvana of classical Buddhism. For you, I wish you to be risen to the highest possible level at the “Judgment,” and thereafter to spend an eternity in the company of like-minded individuals, celebrating your righteousness, strumming harps, singing praises, and whatever else might bring you personal fulfillment.
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If “all souls are accounted for” (including, yours), it will be difficult to accept that my eternal destiny (which, by the way, may not be Heaven) will consist of some “alternate reality” which was shaped by my own personal beliefs, or lack thereof.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I have a dragon in my garage.
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Don’t forget the dead angel hanging from the ceiling, and the IPU hiding in the crawlspace. With NDEs, however, we have evidence:

youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

Okay, by your standards, maybe her testimony (she’s now deceased) isn’t good evidence; perhaps you lump it in with Big Foot, Nessy, alien abductions, etc. Problem is that Ms. Reynolds convinced a lot of people who were with her that day who were not dopes; she has also convinced me (not that I am not a dope.)
 
Jehannette said:
Don’t forget the dead angel hanging from the ceiling, and the IPU hiding in the crawlspace. With NDEs, however, we have evidence:

youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

Okay, by your standards, maybe her testimony (she’s now deceased) isn’t good evidence; perhaps you lump it in with Big Foot, Nessy, alien abductions, etc. Problem is that Ms. Reynolds convinced a lot of people who were with her that day who were not dopes; she has also convinced me (not that I am not a dope.)
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Her testimony is terrible evidence. She was participating in a near death study before she ever hit the operating table.

People will buy nearly anything they are sold if it is packaged to suit their preconcieved ideas.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Her testimony is terrible evidence. She was participating in a near death study before she ever hit the operating table.

People will buy nearly anything they are sold if it is packaged to suit their preconcieved ideas.
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What’s your citation for this?
 
StrawberryJam said:
There is no life after death. Once the brain goes, that is it. Sad, but it is what it is.
I refuse to accept accounts of what life is after death from those who simply could not be bothered to tell me about it firsthand.
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Irrational dogmatism based on the naive assumption that the mind is merely a lump of tissue inside the skull!
 
tonyrey said:
Irrational dogmatism based on the naive assumption that the mind is merely a lump of tissue inside the skull!
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You misrepresent my views rather than challenge them. This is a very sad thing for an apologist to sink to.
 
Jehannette said:
If “all souls are accounted for” (including, yours), it will be difficult to accept that my eternal destiny (which, by the way, may not be Heaven) will consist of some “alternate reality” which was shaped by my own personal beliefs, or lack thereof.
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The evidence of reincarnation, which is plentiful to those who study evidence instead of beliefs, plus the evidence of hauntings, suggests that the GSA is doing the “accounting” of souls.

Any “alternate reality” selected from your beliefs is likely to be a genuine reality state, not a product of your imagination, but one that you may not be fond of. In other words, it will be like going to a Carnival and choosing from one of various rides. Some might be fun, others scary, others barf-inducing. Sometimes people die on such rides. You’ll never know until you get your ticket punched.

Of course, strolling the grounds and eating junk food is a “ride” of sorts. Mathew 25:14 applies.
 
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