Life begins at breath

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So, are anaerobic organisms not alive?

The question is not actually “when does life begin”, which has been answered by science (billions of years ago),
Or “when does a new person start”, again, science answered this already (when mother and father’s DNA combine),
The real question for these folks is “when do we bestow legal and social personhood?” And the answer appears to be “whenever we please, or whenever gets me elected or whenever makes me popular “.
 
I was taught this as a good little non-denominational teenager.
 
Unfortunately, this is becoming typical in the ELCA. I pray for my Lutheran siblings for them to see some of the errors their leadership has made over the years.
 
TNMan said:
Unfortunately, this is becoming typical in the ELCA. I pray for my Lutheran siblings for them to see some of the errors their leadership has made over the years.
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I’ve been a member of an ELCA church and can say that Nadia Bolz-Webber is one pastor of one ELCA church. She doesn’t have any sort of formal leadership position in the denomination. But even bishops in the ELCA don’t have much authority compared to Catholic bishops. Most authority resides instead in individual congregations and the pastors and church councils who lead them. There is no magisterium, and no body which decides binding doctrine that all ELCA Lutherans must believe. In the past, ELCA Lutherans were probably taught Luther’s Small Catechism and the more adventuresome might even tackle the Large Catechism in the Book of Concord. But I don’t think that this happens as much any more in some congregations.
 
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The Hebrew word used is “nefesh,” which can mean life, breath, or soul. So yes, the interpreters in question would not judge anaerobic organisms, or even microbes of any kind, to be nefesh. That said, the error here is that Adam was created, not procreated. Thus, until his first breath, his body was an inanimate object, not a living being. We can’t regard the creation of Adam and Eve as identical to the birth of their descendants.
 
mythbuster1 said:
Thus, until his first breath, his body was an inanimate object, not a living being. We can’t regard the creation of Adam and Eve as identical to the birth of their descendants.
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Respectfully opinion only and 🤔

Genesis 2: 7 And the Lord God found of the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostril’s the breath of Life and the man became a living soul…

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you before you were born I set you apart, I appointed before I formed thee in the belly. I knew thee before thou comest forth out of the womb…
A living soul?

1st Commandment …Love me with your whole heart soul and mind…🤔

Question
When is the first time that blood enter’s into the egg and is seen by Scientist?
When the sperm enters into the egg to fertilize the egg?
The 2 shall become …One?

Questioning. 🤔 When the 2 become one produces a great energy source which 2 things is needed to bring forth a …Child… Biblical verses…Life is in the blood? 🤔
Is the child even able to take breathe within the Womb of its Mother?
When does the child within their Mother’s Womb take its first breathe?🤔
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How many minutes or time is given for Drs to immed… remove the child from within the Mother Womb …to save the life of the child? 🤔

If the Mother sadly passes with her child still within her womb, why is there such a great serious need for Dr’s to remove the child quickly …from within the Mother’s Womb to save the Life of the child? Lack of oxygen, breathe?
Question does the child while still within the Mother’s Womb breathe? 🤔🤔
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Does the Mother provide breathe for the child within her womb…having the means to transport, breathe (air oxygen outside her womb) to the child within her womb to provide nourishment, energy source needed to maintain the Health, Life to the child’s living organs, etc heart? limbs? etc within? 🤔

Does the Mother breathe the outside Air which is transported through what means to give oxygen to the child within her womb? 🤔

Does anyone have an answer to these’s questions to give understanding to when Life… begins at breath?

Thank you. Peace 🤔
 
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This is so illogical. If our scientists found a single cell on Saturn we would all flip out saying it’s life. Somehow this same single cell anywhere else isn’t alive
 
GospelOfMatthew said:
This is so illogical. If our scientists found a single cell on Saturn we would all flip out saying it’s life . Somehow this same single cell anywhere else isn’t alive
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You mean in the womb. I’m pretty sure outside the womb people would happily acknowledge that it is a life.
 
prayerrider said:
Is this typical of ELCA theology now? Or is this an outlier?
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The ELCA as a body have pretty much abandoned Christian doctrine and are at this point pretty much an apostate body. There are many faithful congregations, but at the national level, they are a complete mess theologically and doctrinally. It is funny, that this statement would come from a body that supposedly is re-interpreting scripture in view of scientific advances, because this is a completely ascientific response. This is what happens though when you unhitch doctrine from the authority of scripture.
 
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Yes and this seems hypocritical. The womb can support life. Some cell we find on a distant planet with an unknown atmosphere also supports life. There is no difference here, same life in both cases
 
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I don’t think that the Church should make up commandments on its own. The Church, instead, should rely in the commandments that YHWH gave to Israel through Moses. Of these hundreds of Laws that YHWH sent, none of them mention voluntary pregnancy termination, a practice which must have been known to the Israelites from their stay in Egypt. (The first recorded voluntary pregnancy termination is from Egyptian records of about 1400 B.C.)

My opinion is that if voluntary pregnancy termination was offensive to YHWH, He would have said so. He certainly had ample opportunity to do so.
 
undead_rat said:
I don’t think that the Church should make up commandments on its own. The Church, instead, should rely in the commandments that YHWH gave to Israel through Moses. Of these hundreds of Laws that YHWH sent, none of them mention voluntary pregnancy termination, a practice which must have been known to the Israelites from their stay in Egypt. (The first recorded voluntary pregnancy termination is from Egyptian records of about 1400 B.C.)

My opinion is that if voluntary pregnancy termination was offensive to YHWH, He would have said so. He certainly had ample opportunity to do so.
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I think it’s covered in the 5th commandment.
 
Not really. The 600 some Laws of Moses are very specific as to reproductive conduct, and voluntary abortion is not mentioned. Applying the 5th here is a debatable theological extrapolation.
That being said, it is a long standing Christian tradition to avoid abortion, and I believe that this tradition ought to be respected by members of the Christian Church. What is not an ancient Christian tradition is the imposition of Church Law on non-Christians though the force of secular law.
 
Those are not exclusively Christian laws, but are recognized by society in general. Of course society will have those laws. What is in question is one religion attempting to impose its particular values on other religions and on the non-religious.
 
‘And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.’ - Luke 1:41
The unborn can hear and react. Enough said.
 
Obviously Nadia should never be allowed to pass a CPR class…
 
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