Life of Faith in Eastern vs. Western

[Dave_in_Dallas]

Out of curiosity is there a difference in the way the Eastern Catholic church lives out their faith versus the Western/Roman Catholic Church?
For example, more personal vs. corporate, prosiletyzing (sp?), etc

 

[Madaglan]

Out of curiosity is there a difference in the way the Eastern Catholic church lives out their faith versus the Western/Roman Catholic Church?
For example, more personal vs. corporate, prosiletyzing (sp?), etc

In the Western/Roman Catholic Church the faith is lived out by regular (even daily) attendance of Mass, frequent communion, reciting the rosary either privately or with a group, reading the Scripture passages for the day, praying novenas and fulfilling devotional prayers associated with the wearing of saintly objects (e.g. cords, scapulars, medals). It is believed that by fulfilling these prayer duties, one receives indulgences and guard against Hell and spiritual misfortune.

Some devotions, like that to The Sacred Heart of Jesus or to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, request prayer the first Friday or Saturday of each month for consecutive months. Other devotions, like that of the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, are prayed with a rosary. I think it may fairly be said that in the Western Church there is a greater focus on devotions revealed to individual saints and blesseds, prompted by Mary and/or Jesus who desire the devotions be propagated amongst the faithful.

At times, Roman Catholics go on pilgrimages to churches and shrines, where might be found relics and healing. Some Roman Catholics may have holy pictures and icons and pray in front of them.

Prayer before a crucifix is an important spiritual tradition, and many miraculous events like stigmata are recorded in the context of this prayer. Devotion to the consecrated Eucharist is especially strong amongst devout Roman Catholics, and many spend time inside Eucharistic chapels adoring the Eucharist, and likewise attend Exposition and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.

Within the past several decades, other spiritualities (e.g. “charismatic”) have become popular amongst Latin Catholics.

In the Eastern Catholic Churches, there is not as much emphasis on devotions. Long liturgical prayers to Mary, Jesus and the saints called Akathists are typically prayed in groups, often at the church. There are many times during which the faithful partake in prayers of blessing of objects and persons. In the home, one may find a prayer corner, replete with icons, crosses, holy oil, incense, and prayer book.

Many Eastern Catholics pray morning and evening prayers, and some pray the Jesus Prayer (“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner”), the Prayer of the Heart, which is often prayed with a prayer rope (chotki). Spiritual reading of the lives of the saints, the Philokalia (collection of writings by the Fathers) and other wholesome books is also common. Eastern Catholics, like Roman Catholics, have pilgrimages, relics and shrines.

There is a certain degree of cross-over, so it is not uncommon to find Eastern Catholics praying the rosary, or for Latin Catholics to become interested in icons and the Jesus Prayer.

 

[Diak]

Dave - in addition to what has been well summarized by the previous post, I would say that essentially in Eastern Christian spirituality there is a strong living out of “lex orandi, lex credendi” or what we pray is what we believe.

Also I would say that for Eastern Christians the domestic Church (the home) is an extension of the spiritual and theological life, especially the prayer, of the parish Church and is the lived manifestation of the parish Church.

With the exception of the Divine Liturgy all of the remaining liturgical prayers from the Divine Praises (Divine Office of Vespers, Matins, the Hours, etc) and the other liturgical services such as Akathists and Molebens are easily adapted for home use as “readers services”.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I second the responses here.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

With the exception of the Divine Liturgy all of the remaining liturgical prayers from the Divine Praises (Divine Office of Vespers, Matins, the Hours, etc) and the other liturgical services such as Akathists and Molebens are easily adapted for home use as “readers services”.

The Divine Office in the East is still a Monastic office and even when adapted as a “readers service” still take a considerable amount of time. This is one of the changes that the Latin Church did with its Divine Office making it much more usable for people with limited amounts of time.

I would love to do Compline before bed each night but it takes up to a half hour to do and with the issues I am having lately this is lengthy and very hard to complete.

 

[CDNowak]

In the Western/Roman Catholic Church the faith is lived out by regular (even daily) attendance of Mass, frequent communion, reciting the rosary either privately or with a group, reading the Scripture passages for the day, praying novenas and fulfilling devotional prayers associated with the wearing of saintly objects (e.g. cords, scapulars, medals). It is believed that by fulfilling these prayer duties, one receives indulgences and guard against Hell and spiritual misfortune.

Perhaps you should stick to explaining Orthodox practice?

The Western Church does have an emphasis on the Eucharistic Liturgy (the Mass) and a popular emphasis on devotions. Devotions to the saints are prayers asking for the intercession of the saints, much as you ask others to pray for you. There is also a trend to emphasize a legalistic attitude (which perhaps is what Madaglan was attempting to refer to), but not apart from the relation with God and His Holy Church.

There are also various spiritualities that are stronger in different places: the Benedictine devotion to the Liturgy of the Hours (or Divine Office) and Lectio Divina, the Carmelite emphasis on self-emptying and meditation, the Franciscan emphasis on simplicity and action, the Dominican and Jesuit emphasis on study…

Beyond that it seems (and here I speaking as a matter of my opinion) that the Catholic Church is more Catholic in mind and practice, putting more of an emphasis on converting the world. The Eastern Churches seem to be more heavily rooted in mysticism (a good thing), but less able to address the world philosophically (philosophy is perhaps the biggest barrier between the two).

 

[Diak]

The Divine Office in the East is still a Monastic office and even when adapted as a “readers service” still take a considerable amount of time. This is one of the changes that the Latin Church did with its Divine Office making it much more usable for people with limited amounts of time.

I would love to do Compline before bed each night but it takes up to a half hour to do and with the issues I am having lately this is lengthy and very hard to complete.

Not exactly. Fr. Taft and many before him such as Arranz and Mateos have pointed out that there is a “cathedral” (parochial) usage as well as a monastic. The monastic, especially under the influence of St. Sabbas, has come to predominate.

There is nothing wrong with a pastoral adaptation of the Divine Praises for domestic use. All of the best Eastern Christian prayerbooks have done this. There are other options, such as taking the suggested divisions in the Stamford Horologion which break up the Psalms so that instead of every night they are chanted over a week. There are others such as only taking the Irmos or a rotating Ode of the Canon, etc. It most certainly can be done in fifteen minutes still keeping the integrity of both the spirit and structure of the service.

The Eastern Churches seem to be more heavily rooted in mysticism (a good thing), but less able to address the world philosophically (philosophy is perhaps the biggest barrier between the two).

I would disagree entirely with the conclusion; remember Constantinople was the seat of the Roman Empire. It is not philosphy, but rather spirituality, liturgy, and ecclesiology that have developed independently, and these by their very nature of being diverse are most certainly NOT barriers according to the teaching of the Catholic Church (c.f. Ut Unum Sint and Unitatis Redintegratio). Since most of the world is no longer Christian, especially those parts that formerly were, I would not presume to give credit to a greater philosophical impact of the West for the result.

There are also various spiritualities that are stronger in different places: the Benedictine devotion to the Liturgy of the Hours (or Divine Office) and Lectio Divina, the Carmelite emphasis on self-emptying and meditation, the Franciscan emphasis on simplicity and action, the Dominican and Jesuit emphasis on study…

These are almost entirely monastic in nature (including tertiaries who are structurally united to the original monastic order). One aspect of Eastern Christian spiritual life that should be mentioned is that the Divine Praises are still very often part of the corporate parochial liturgical life and are being restored in many places. In spite of the exhortations of Sacrosanctum Concilium and other documents, the Divine Praises in the West are still almost exclusively the prayer of clergy or religious.

The Eastern Christian generally prays with liturgical prayers rather than a “devotion” such as a chaplet, rosary, etc. that is outside of the usual Latin liturgical corpus.

While I would agree that the discussion regarding purpose of prayer, indlugences, etc. by Madaglan was superfluous and an exaggerration, I would also suggest that the exagerrations of the above poster applied to the Christian East equally as imprecise and his suggestion of “Perhaps you should stick to explaining Orthodox practice?” be applied equally in his case to Latin practice.

The reality is that both East and West have unique charisms and beauties that are part of the universal spiritual and liturgical tradition of the universal Church. Each has a different spiritual focus, liturgical manifestation, and lived praxis.

 

[CDNowak]

I would disagree entirely with the conclusion; remember Constantinople was the seat of the Roman Empire. It is not philosphy, but rather spirituality, liturgy, and ecclesiology that have developed independently, and these by their very nature of being diverse are most certainly NOT barriers according to the teaching of the Catholic Church (c.f. Ut Unum Sint and Unitatis Redintegratio).

These are almost entirely monastic in nature (including tertiaries who are structurally united to the original monastic order). One aspect of Eastern Christian spiritual life that should be mentioned is that the Divine Praises are still very often part of the corporate parochial liturgical life and are being restored in many places. In spite of the exhortations of Sacrosanctum Concilium and other documents, the Divine Praises in the West are still almost exclusively the prayer of clergy or religious.

While I would agree that the discussion regarding purpose of prayer, indlugences, etc. by Madaglan was superfluous and an exaggerration, I would also suggest that the exagerrations of the above poster applied to the Christian East equally as imprecise and his suggestion of “Perhaps you should stick to explaining Orthodox practice?” be applied equally in his case to Latin practice.

The reality is that both East and West have unique charisms and beauties that are part of the universal spiritual and liturgical tradition of the universal Church. Each has a different spiritual focus, liturgical manifestation, and lived praxis.

I think there is a distinction between differences and barriers to unity (perhaps I should have said obstacles? I certainly did not mean to imply insurmountable difficulties, merely the roots of many of the differences over issues that lead to the regrettable hostility often seen here have their roots in differing systems of philosophy), the overly legalistic philosophy of the west certainly is good at making such barriers.

I am sorry if I managed to offend so deeply with one clause, I had no intention of stating anything more than my perspective, certainly not imputing motives.

The spiritualities of religious orders, at least in the US, do tend to spread beyond the orders themselves (particularly the mendicant orders, who are not properly monastics). This seems to be a newer practice, one of the hidden fruits of Vatican II perhaps, and it seems to be replacing in many places the devotional tendencies that existed in previous generations.

Your comments on the importance of the Divine Praises in the East are enlightening, and yes, a point of failure in Western practice.

in Peace,

 

[Diak]

Thank you for the thoughtful dialogue - and absolutely no offense was taken. It’s an almost unconscious thing (I do it myself) that in summarizing something with a 2,000+ year development to such an empirical state that the end result can be a cheapening if not misleading thing by oversimplification. God bless your Great Fast.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Not exactly. Fr. Taft and many before him such as Arranz and Mateos have pointed out that there is a “cathedral” (parochial) usage as well as a monastic. The monastic, especially under the influence of St. Sabbas, has come to predominate.

Yes, I have heard of a “cathedral” usage but have never seen it.

There is nothing wrong with a pastoral adaptation of the Divine Praises for domestic use. All of the best Eastern Christian prayerbooks have done this. There are other options, such as taking the suggested divisions in the Stamford Horologion which break up the Psalms so that instead of every night they are chanted over a week. There are others such as only taking the Irmos or a rotating Ode of the Canon, etc. It most certainly can be done in fifteen minutes still keeping the integrity of both the spirit and structure of the service.

Even with adapting it in a pastoral manner it still can take up to a half hour or a little more. It is not optimal for those who have time or health issues. It is also very repetitive while the Latin Divine Office has a nice worked out 4 week cycle.

I like doing what I know the Church is doing as the Divine Office is he prayer of the Church.

When one makes changes on their own they are not really praying the same as the rest of the Church.

I hope you understand what I am trying to get across here Father Deacon.

 

[Diak]

Even with adapting it in a pastoral manner it still can take up to a half hour or a little more. It is not optimal for those who have time or health issues. It is also very repetitive while the Latin Divine Office has a nice worked out 4 week cycle.

Actually it is far more changeable than the Latin Office if you use all of the variable texts.

I like doing what I know the Church is doing as the Divine Office is he prayer of the Church.

When one makes changes on their own they are not really praying the same as the rest of the Church.

The suggested abbreviations I mentioned (rotating Psalms, only taking Irmosi, etc.) are actually in prayer books such as the Zhovka and Pochaiv Molitvoslovs used since at least the early 19th century amongst other texts. I didn’t make them up and spiritual fathers have been using these sorts of adaptations of the liturgical corpus of the Church for their spiritual children since the Desert Fathers.

I suppose I would like some more explanation of what in the world “when one makes changes on their own they are not really praying the same as the rest of the Church” means. Is the rest of the Church exactly praying the Office as your Carmelite community? No, since there is no absolute consistency even in various usages of different texts and versions of the Latin Office.

What I read is that option (a) is too long and option (b) is not really the prayer (in your own estimation, which I would suggest is torpor in not trying to understand the riches of your own particular tradition) so (c) I will do neither and use whatever version of the Latin Office you use, certainly the easiest option.

I am scandalized (not too strong of a word) that any Eastern Catholic monastic even living in a Latin-rite community would not want to at least stay partly consonant with the rich monastic prayer tradition of his particular Church, even if he does not have the strength (which God understands) to live that particular tradition out to its fullest manifestations.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Actually it is far more changeable than the Latin Office if you use all of the variable texts.

The suggested abbreviations I mentioned (rotating Psalms, only taking Irmosi, etc.) are actually in prayer books such as the Zhovka and Pochaiv Molitvoslovs used since at least the early 19th century amongst other texts. I didn’t make them up and spiritual fathers have been using these sorts of adaptations of the liturgical corpus of the Church for their spiritual children since the Desert Fathers.

I suppose I would like some more explanation of what in the world “when one makes changes on their own they are not really praying the same as the rest of the Church” means. Is the rest of the Church exactly praying the Office as your Carmelite community? Absolutely not. Nor is there absolute consistency even in the usage of the Latin Office.

What I read is that option (a) is too long and option (b) is not really the prayer (in your own estimation, which I would suggest is torpor in not trying to understand the riches of your own particular tradition) so (c) I will do neither and use whatever version of the Latin Office you use, certainly the easiest option.

Well I do the Latin Office out of Obedience to the Constitutions of my order.

As for the other, I do not have the prayer books you speak of and can not afford to get any of the books that are necessary to really do the Divine Office of my tradition of which doing would be extra to the prayers I am bound to by obedience.

I did not wish to get snotty in this discussion, I was really trying to figure a way to work this in.

Obviously I have fallen short in getting across my thoughts in a way that you can understand me. This is my fault and I beg your patience with me in this as I do truly want to get more into my particular tradition as I can during my “free” time as I work though my internship and illness.

 

[Madaglan]

Perhaps you should stick to explaining Orthodox practice?

The Western Church does have an emphasis on the Eucharistic Liturgy (the Mass) and a popular emphasis on devotions. Devotions to the saints are prayers asking for the intercession of the saints, much as you ask others to pray for you. There is also a trend to emphasize a legalistic attitude (which perhaps is what Madaglan was attempting to refer to), but not apart from the relation with God and His Holy Church.

There are also various spiritualities that are stronger in different places: the Benedictine devotion to the Liturgy of the Hours (or Divine Office) and Lectio Divina, the Carmelite emphasis on self-emptying and meditation, the Franciscan emphasis on simplicity and action, the Dominican and Jesuit emphasis on study…

Beyond that it seems (and here I speaking as a matter of my opinion) that the Catholic Church is more Catholic in mind and practice, putting more of an emphasis on converting the world. The Eastern Churches seem to be more heavily rooted in mysticism (a good thing), but less able to address the world philosophically (philosophy is perhaps the biggest barrier between the two).

I actually have a fair amount of experience with Catholic practice, and I drew from this experience in forming my response. My response was by no means exhaustive, and I agree that religious orders have their own particular charisma that they bring to the Catholic Church.