"Life Teen is Irreformable"

[MaryChelan]

"Behold Jesus crucified! Behold His wounds, received for love of you! His whole appearance betokens love: His head is bent to kiss you; His arms are extended to embrace you; His Heart is open to receive you. O superabundance of love, Jesus, the Son of God, dies upon the cross, that man may live and be delivered from everlasting death!

Is this how I repay my Jesus with abusive, irreverent Masses? Must my beloved Jesus by bruised, derided, cursed, defiled by those who claim to love Him?

Amen! Thank you, Mandi. You hit the nail on the head here! (no pun intended) I am beginning to think that many of the posters in this thread have never been to a true Holy Catholic Mass that is *nothing *even remotely like LifeTeen. I find it so sad, because our Holy Catholic Mass is so rich and beautiful and needs no additions or embellishments or changes to it, and hasn’t needed any of these things for generations upon generations. I was moved by it as a child in the fifties and as a teen in the sixties and early seventies. And I was moved by it especially because it is so steeped in Tradition and because it is so *holy. *I did not see, feel or witness any holiness in LifeTeen. I saw no Tradition. It was just so, so *wrong. *It was so disrespectful to Our Lord. Thank you for saying it so succinctly and to the point in your post. It was highly appreciated by this writer. God bless!

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Mary,

You write:

I am beginning to think that many of the posters in this thread have never been to a true Holy Catholic Mass that is *nothing *even remotely like LifeTeen. I find it so sad, because our Holy Catholic Mass is so rich and beautiful and needs no additions or embellishments or changes to it, and hasn’t needed any of these things for generations upon generations.

This leads me to believe that you have an image of the Mass that is singular in nature. Perhaps that is part of the issue here. Since I am a bi-ritual deacon I have experienced not only the Tridentine and Pauline Masses, but also the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, the Quorbono of the Chaldeans and the Maronite Liturgy as well as the Presanctified. Each brings a special sense of holiness with it. The LifeTeen Mass also offers us a sense of holiness, albeit in a different form.

Clearly you appear to want uniformity at the expense of diversity. This is sad because the Catholic Church is, at her very core, diverse! We worship in different tongues and with different music depending on culture. Attend a Deaf Mass sometime and watch the beauty of sign language being used to express the eternal mysteries.

Just becuase the form is not what you want and what you think is holy does not render that form unholy, non-Catholic, or unworthy. It’s just different. Sure, it may not speak to you – and that’s why the Church offers different forms of worship.

Please, let’s not apply standards that the Church herself does not use.

Deacon Ed

 

[system]

Exalt, I wanted to comment on your extensive “greeting”. Maybe it’s the custom at your parish, but I would be taken aback by someone wanting to know my name, or by trying to explain simple things like a song sheet. I don’t need to be so “over-greeted”!

You do make a very interesting point, which many of us have been making all along. You realize that your LT Mass is going to make some people uncomfortable, and you clearly see value in warning them up front! That is the core of the debate here. Should a mass ever make anyone uneasy?

After I got over the shock of being asked my name, I would probably engage you in a miniature version of this discussion, right there on the spot. “So the mass is different, eh? How? Why? Is that really OK?” Etc.

 

[Exalt]

Is this how I repay my Jesus with abusive, irreverent Masses? Must my beloved Jesus by bruised, derided, cursed, defiled by those who claim to love Him?

You misunderstand her point. You were at first saying that LT masses are not masses. Betsy was pointing out that while a given LT mass may have bad things about it, it is most likely still a mass.

Furthermore, a well-done LT mass is very reverent - but in a way that you may not see as reverence. I define reverence as “those behaviors, attitudes, and actions that proceed from a genuine love of the Divine One in all his awe and majesty.” This reverence may be lifting one’s hands up in prayer, singing passionately and prayerfully, or may be folding one’s hands and bowing one’s head. I also would like to point out that this is the norm for most LT masses, not the exception.

 

[Exalt]

tcj:

Exalt, I wanted to comment on your extensive “greeting”. Maybe it’s the custom at your parish, but I would be taken aback by someone wanting to know my name, or by trying to explain simple things like a song sheet. I don’t need to be so “over-greeted”!

+At our LT masses, the greeters have 4 primary goals:

1. To get to know the teens, for they are who we are ministering to. This includes inviting them to the Life Night.
2. To give newcomers to our mass the jist of how this mass is a bit different before actually going in. The norm at our parish is complete silence until the opening song. We have music practice and an introduction by Father up until 5 minutes before mass, when we have a time of silence. But if you want some quiet time, the mother’s chapel is set up to be completely silent until mass starts. Normally, the mother’s chapel is hooked up to the main sound system and one would normally conclude that singing would be heard in there too. But it’s not the case at our LT mass. We want to help people adjust from the norm to what we do.
3. To make you feel more comfortable and to feel like you are a part of this community.
4. To give you a song sheet.

You do make a very interesting point, which many of us have been making all along. You realize that your LT Mass is going to make some people uncomfortable, and you clearly see value in warning them up front! That is the core of the debate here. Should a mass ever make anyone uneasy?

The sunday 7:00 am Cantor-and-Organ mass used to make me extremely uneasy. The Spanish mass always makes me feel uneasy (I really don’t like Mariachi music). This definately doesn’t mean that these masses should be stopped. Many people get alot more out of those masses than the 5:00 pm LT mass - that’s okay. If you don’t like the LT mass, there are many other masses to choose from.

And the reason for the emphasis on greeting isn’t that they are going to feel uncomfortable. It’s that we want to help them feel as included as possible. It’s not that we are warning them up front, as a advisor would warn his general of an impending invasion, it’s that we want them to know what’s different about this mass.

After I got over the shock of being asked my name, I would probably engage you in a miniature version of this discussion, right there on the spot. “So the mass is different, eh? How? Why? Is that really OK?” Etc.

I try and avoid those on-the-spot conversations because I have a few more important things to do. However, you shouldn’t have to ask the “how” question because I just told you how it was different. As far as “why” goes: If you said “Why do you practice music up until 5 minutes before mass?” I would say “Well, we want the congregation ready to sing fully and joyfully and help the community become prepared for this great gift that God has given us in the mass. We have found that practicing song before mass helps as well as a period of 5 minutes of silence. If you would like silence instead, the mother’s chapel is set up to be sound-proof.” And if you answered “well, is that really OK?” I would say “Yes, of course, we are in full cooperation with the bishops - the GIRM prescribes a period of silent time before mass and encourages ministers to help our brothers and sisters in the congregation to sing and pray as fully as possible.”

 

[Prometheum_x]

Lifeteen is sometimes accused of trying to “entertain” youth. Those who object to this practice say that the Mass is no place for entertainment.

For those who think this way, could you please explain why? Why are “entertainment” and “reverence” mutually exclusive? Also, provide the definition of “entertain” that you are using.

 

[kwitz]

In our bulletin today there was the usual Lifeteen section. Two of the items struck me as interesting for those who hate LT and can not see any possible good.

Item 1: A group of high school students have been meeting for 7:00 am Mass on Weds mornings and want to invite any one else interested to join them. Item 2: The summer college student bible study continues - if anyone wants to participate call…

I see such positive things coming from the program which is supported by the Vatican. We rarely attend because it is at noon on Sundays in our parish and I don’t like to attend Mass that late but I think it has a role to play in catechizing youth.

Kris

 

[MOSTotusTuus]

This message board is way to stressed out to correctly debate this matter at this point. We all have our views and opinions and none of us want to change them, but I feel like it’s getting to the point no one wants to listen to eachother and are now frustrated.

Beyond theology and reasons for our madness should be our love for eachother, whether we are Tradional or Charasmatic, attend Latin or English masses, or sing Hymns or Praise. We are all a part of the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APASTOLIC CHURCH.

Today we have protestants stealing our parishoners, evangalizing to Catholic countries and complaining that our priests cant marry, and abuse within the US church. Now in Austria Abuses in a seminary are comming out. Should we spend our time attacking eachother? Or should we use our energy in the best way we know how fight against this for our church? The pope has called to us and told us… “Do not be afraid to go out on the streets and into public places like the first apostles who preached Christ and the Good News of Salvation in the squares of cities, towns and villages” Let’s follow his call to the best of our abilites and love one another!

May God bless you and keep you, may his face shine upon you and bring you peace.

 

[Exalt]

Item 1: A group of high school students have been meeting for 7:00 am Mass on Weds mornings and want to invite any one else interested to join them. Item 2: The summer college student bible study continues - if anyone wants to participate call…

That’s really awesome! Many LT parishes are convienantly located near high schools and they offer Daily mass often - and many LT teens attend! Our Parish is located too far away from any high schools though (which is odd because it seems there’s another highschool every few blocks =p).

Many LT parishes offer Apologetics and/or Bible Study year round, or in 3-week blocks every couple of months. Our teens have really called for these sort of activities. Many are calling for a trip to a local tridentine mass!

(PS: I am deliberately ignoring MaryChelan’s recent posts. I recommend that we, as forummers, no matter where we stand on these issues, not respond to sarcastic and unloving responses on either side)

 

[peregrinator_it]

Prometheum_x:

Lifeteen is sometimes accused of trying to “entertain” youth. Those who object to this practice say that the Mass is no place for entertainment.

For those who think this way, could you please explain why? Why are “entertainment” and “reverence” mutually exclusive? Also, provide the definition of “entertain” that you are using.

I apologize for interjecting into this thread so late and for this post which will be a little off-topic- but I think that Prometheum’s question is important and I would like to address it.

While I can’t address Lifeteen specifically (I haven’t any experience with it) I do think that “reverence” and “entertainment” are usually opposed. By “entertaining” I mean something which is designed to cater entirely to a person’s sense of pleasure.

There are two reasons why I am distrustful of liturgical things designed to entertain.

The first is that things which are designed to entertain us focus us, not just on ourselves, but specifically on our own sense of pleasure. When being entertained, we are most often focused on our own reactions to entertainment (esp. whether or not we are being successfully entertained.) During Mass our attention should first be on God (and specifically on the Eucharist). Consequently, I think it is difficult to have a liturgy which simultaneously (sp?) directs the congregation’s attention to God and entertains them.

My second reason originates in my personal experience, but I don’t think that makes it less valid. No one ever suggested to me when I was a teenager, that anything related to living the Catholic faith would necessarily be entertaining, fun, or even easy. It was made clear to me as a teenager that I should live the Catholic faith because it is the Truth and that I should participate in the Mass because it is a Sacrament of God’s grace.The parish I attended did not have a teen Mass and I admit there were times that I was bored during Mass. However I am inexpressibly grateful to my parents, priests, and teachers for catechizing me and simply telling me the truth. I think it is a great temptation in the tumult of one’s teenage years to latch on to what makes you feel good. But, good feelings are not a basis on which to try to live one’s faith; life throws out too many difficulties and sufferings for good feelings to stand up to. If I had believed that the Mass or anything else about the Faith ought to be enternaining, I would already have left the Catholic Church.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that entertainment is a dangerous foundation to build one’s practice of religion on. And I am wary of attempts even to draw teenagers in by entertaining them. I would rather see them be taught to hold on to their faith and attended Mass because that is where they will find the Truth regardless of the setting in which they find it.

Sorry for the overlong post. I find it difficult to be articulate about such things sometimes…****

 

[MOSTotusTuus]

Here’s what the teens at my church are up to with Lifeteen

July 31-August 1 Senior class retreat
Mass Tuesday and thursday at 6:45 pm then Catholicism 101 with discussions on the Eucharist, sacraments, mary, the pope, and saints. Led by a former youth
Scripture study led by 4 former youths

They have already also done a Steubenville retreat which about 150 teens attended and the maxed the number of kids Lifteen would let them bring to Covecrest Lifeteen camp this summer. (due to space limitations)

They do homeless ministry at a soup kitchen, we have had 3 guys in the past 2 years go into seminary, a 4th is working on starting a religious order who will most likly have their habits on the start of advent, we have 8 teens that have gone to Franciscan university of Steubenville and many others go to big time Catholic colleges.

While this in no way measures the credibility of Lifeteen… it does do good for the teens, and those they are around. when the star football players of a team who are ranked in the top 5 in the nation get the courage to stand up in the locker room for purity, chastity, not drinking and doing drugs and whatever else comes with that… That in itself is a battle won.

In kenya mass is celebrated differently than Alaska, and in China it is different than America. Our cultures always have had an influence on certain areas of mass… mainly music. There are the key elements that make a catholic mass and those are there. I had a discussion with members of our music team tonight and they are always trying to keep it reverent, and follow the commands of our bishop.

I would encourage you all to go to world youth day, and see all the different cultures, music styles, and languages come together and celebrate the same mass.

That is what being Catholic is about.

 

[MOSTotusTuus]

MaryChelan:

Even your post, at the beginning, is arrogant and pompous, though you end it with kindness. I find that hard to swallow. You and the other unkind posters are not really practicing what you are all preaching. This is why I will never post on Catholic Answers ever again.

Im Sorry, because I was in no way trying to be arrogant or pompous towards you. My post while it started out mentioning your last post was not directed towards you alone.

What I have learned on this message board is that we all have our own very evidant spiritualities and passions within the church. My own passion in Evangalization. That quote i had from JPII is what i remind myself with everytime I go outside my house or Dorm Room. I feel it is true though that we are all stressed out and the first rule in evangalization in not to argue and I feel many of us, including myself, have forgotten that on this topic we are so passionate about.

Let’s remind ourselves of what the purpose of this board is, and to rationalize and humble ourselves to others. I speak for myself once again as well.

May God bless you

 

[Meggie]

Many of you keep forgetting that LifeTeen is for teenagers. To say teens don’t need a special misistry is bizarre. Most people fall away from church in their teens and twenties. Also many of you act like teens should just jet themselves to the nearest Latin Mass, yet on other threads you talk about how you have to travel a half hour to get to a Latin Mass. At least at my LifeTeen of 50-70 youth weeky ten or more of the kids walk to get there, some walking over a mile…Its not just about friends and things. We love going to Adoration! Have you ever seen a room full of teens who cheer for Adoration over having a movie night? I doubt it because if you really knew then you wouldn’t be taking the stand agains LifeTeen that you do.
Sure, there are some wrong things, but LifeTeen is not the cause. Untrained Priests are at fault. Other Catholic Churches around my town produce far more abuses than a LifeTeen Mass ever could. I dare you to go back to the churches where the litirgucal abuses occured and go to a regular Mass…as a whole the things you didn’t like aren’t going to not occur.
About the music, the early church relied on new music, new sounds all the time. Kids in my parish buy cd’s of the songs that are played during Mass. Prehaps you should think of it as the music of the church having a greater ability to reach the people insted of the music of the people in the church.

Sincerly,
Meggie

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed.