"Life Teen" Liturgy and it's destruction of centuries of Holy Tradition

[Kielbasi]

The Life Teen liturgy certainly wouldn’t be anything that I could really relate to.

But just as the Church allows different liturgies from the eastern rites, allows different liturgical practices in certain countries.

Its undoubtably o.k. for life teen masses to have new practices to reach out to the people, and the magesterium agrees, and allows the teen life masses.

 

[JButky]

HelpingHands:

I guess all of this is very subjective.

Actually it’s not. There is criteria but it is largely ignored. Also add that the state of music education is far worse than the poor catechesis of the last 30-40 years and there’s no wondering why it is called a subjective preference. So what you have are people who don’t understand the Mass, don’t understand the role of music for it, and finally even less of an understanding of music or accessibility to worthy forms.

HelpingHands:

But, I see the Catholic Church as being more of a living organism… Because people are so different from one another in what moves them. It’s even more pronounced today in our fast-paced, quickly changing society. So, I think we should all be very respectful of one another, because our goal is the same, namely Christ the Lord.

Music for Mass is first and foremost a mere reflection, albeit imperfect, derived from the beauty of the Eucharist at Mass. If anything is to move you, it is not the music’s job. The Eucharist Himself does that as any music struggles to approach that as a reflection of that grandeur.

Rock Music outside of Mass is perfectly fine. But NEVER at Mass. The very fact that music has the ability to “move” people requires especially stringent measures to maintain worthiness of compositions for use at Mass.

Joe B

 

[HelpingHands]

Hi JButky,
I guess we disagree. I think taste in music is very subjective. Apparently many churches think it’s okay too. I think the folks who like these spirited Masses feel uplifted by them. The Monsigneur who presides over the one I’ve been to considers the Mass a joyful event of praise to the Lord.

 

[JButky]

HelpingHands:

Hi JButky,
I guess we disagree. I think taste in music is very subjective. Apparently many churches think it’s okay too. I think the folks who like these spirited Masses feel uplifted by them. The Monsigneur who presides over the one I’ve been to considers the Mass a joyful event of praise to the Lord.

I have to infer from these comments that music other than Rock music is not “spirited, uplifting, or joyful”??? Any particular “church” exercising in a practice by popular demand or personal preference does not equate to an authoritative codification.

Taste in music is subjective. Selecting music worthy for usage at Mass is not. Rock music in the most common sense of its understanding is inherently unworthy for usage at Mass. That is not a subjective comment either. Whether one “likes” it or not is subjective and can be appropriate for personal usage. Whether or not it is worthy for Mass by criteria is a different discussion. However, by that criteria, it is unworthy for Mass.

Yes, we disagree. And I disagree strongly.

Joe B

 

[HelpingHands]

JButky:

I have to infer from these comments that music other than Rock music is not “spirited, uplifting, or joyful”??? .

Hi Joe,
No, you don’t have to infer that, but you certainly can if you like. I think what is uplifting to one person is offensive to the next, since people are so different. So, there you have it…

 

[robertaf]

In the first post the writer refers to centuries of tradition then in a later one mentions 2000 years.

I would ask, what do you know of the music from Jesus times and then all down through the centuries. THAT is Tradition.

Music has changed with the centuries. Folks from 100-200 years ago might very well hate what you call traditional church music.

 

[palmas85]

Kielbasi:

The Life Teen liturgy certainly wouldn’t be anything that I could really relate to.

But just as the Church allows different liturgies from the eastern rites, allows different liturgical practices in certain countries.

Its undoubtably o.k. for life teen masses to have new practices to reach out to the people, and the magesterium agrees, and allows the teen life masses.

The different rites and practices reflect different traditions and cultures. There is no intrinsic difference in a teenager and an adult in western society, and they certainly don’t belong to a different cultural group although at times it may seem so.

As far as the Magisterium agreeing, I wouldn’t want to be the one to say that the Magesterium has always been correct, would you?

Divide and conquer, and destroy from within. Classic methods of convential and guerilla warfare. Separate the youth from the adults, give them their mission and their own belief system and set them loose was the cornerstone of the Cultural Revolution in Maoist China. I see nothing good or positive coming from dividing the faithful in this fashion.

 

[HelpingHands]

palmas85:

The different rites and practices reflect different traditions and cultures. There is no intrinsic difference in a teenager and an adult in western society, and they certainly don’t belong to a different cultural group although at times it may seem so.

As far as the Magisterium agreeing, I wouldn’t want to be the one to say that the Magesterium has always been correct, would you?

Divide and conquer, and destroy from within. Classic methods of convential and guerilla warfare. Separate the youth from the adults, give them their mission and their own belief system and set them loose was the cornerstone of the Cultural Revolution in Maoist China. I see nothing good or positive coming from dividing the faithful in this fashion.

Hi palmas!
But, your assertation here then would have to apply to all variations of liturgy, including the Latin Mass, Tridentine Mass, etc. There are even schismatic groups who push for those variations. It’s been very divisive for the Church.

I say that utter conformity and non-tolerance for cultural variations is not good. Why should someone in Asia have to structure the music of the Mass based on European tradition from the last few centuries? And, why can’t new traditions not be given the chance to prove their worth? I guess I see the Church as a living organism, not a museum piece.

Just my opinion, mind you.

 

[A.Pelliccio]

I very much doubt that our Heavenly Father watches MTV and particpates in the latest fades. Without being sacrilegious I very much doubt that he walks around in g unit clothing, hollas at some of the saints, ect.

That being satire, the point is very serious. The Lord Jesus Christ does not prescribe to fads neither should the church. We are the rock in the storm and our foundations are apostolic tradition. With each passing fad we can not just throw up some new wall paper. To say because some action is popular today and that should be the basis for liturgical worship or any influence on it is just disgraceful.

Tell the martyrs of the protestant reformation who died for tradition that they should have prescribed to popular belief. That maybe they should have instituted Lutheran heresy inside the mass or prayer for the sake of “filling pews.”

Anthony

 

[HelpingHands]

A.Pelliccio:

We are the rock in the storm

Anthony

Hey Anthony, I think “We are a rock in the storm” sounds like a great title to a song!!!

 

[palmas85]

HelpingHands:

Hi palmas!
But, your assertation here then would have to apply to all variations of liturgy, including the Latin Mass, Tridentine Mass, etc. There are even schismatic groups who push for those variations. It’s been very divisive for the Church.

I say that utter conformity and non-tolerance for cultural variations is not good. Why should someone in Asia have to structure the music of the Mass based on European tradition from the last few centuries? And, why can’t new traditions not be given the chance to prove their worth? I guess I see the Church as a living organism, not a museum piece.

Just my opinion, mind you.

Yeah, I see what you say, but to offer a different Liturgical aspect based on age seems to have no real merit. A childrens Mass, yes, because they often cannot grasp the abstract concepts of adult worship. But teenagers are essentially adults, at least most of them and they come from the same cultural groups that we do. If one Mass can serve the adults in a particular parish, why can that same Mass not serve the teenagers? It still seems to me to be an attempt. maybe well intentioned, to divide the faithful
into distinct grioups.

As far as cultural variations in the Mass, I think there can be some liberty with minor details, but we have to always remember, the Mass is not about us, the Mass is about God. Not they way we want him to be, but rather the way he is. He is God, not us, despite the apparent belief that we as the body of Christ should worship each other in all of our radiant glory. .

As far as the Rock music aspect, rock developed basically as a protest against conformity and gave youth something that they could call their own. While I have nothing against rock music to listen to at a club or concert, I don;t think it has any place at all in a sacred setting. It can be way too unsettling and divisive in nature. And no, I do not believe it is the music of the Devil .

Just an aside, I have spoken with numerous teenagers in my parish, and many of them, not all, but many see teen life masses and events as something that is not too religious in nature. In fact they say they find them completely and totally irreverent and unsatisfying spiritually in many cases. They tell me it seems to be more of a socializing activity than worship. They also say that the adults involved seem to re-living their own teen years or perhaps their dreams of teen years through the activities. While this may not be the majority opinion, it is definitely there.

 

[wannabee]

Can someone answer a simple question re Lifeteen masses ?

Is it permitted for about 40 teens to be round the Altar for the Consecration ?

Our local Diocesan Youth Chaplain permits this , though I thought it was not allowed.

If I’m correct - could I have Chapter and verse please - as I think I may have problems - even the Bishop has been present and the practice continues.

 

[HelpingHands]

I think the teens around the altar is now officially a no no. I thought it was goofy, myself. I haven’t been back to the LifeTeen Mass since that edict, hopefully the Monsigneur has gotten rid of it.

 

[Sir_Hubert]

The parish I attend is actuallly a Life Teen hub parish. It is a bit disturbing to enter the church and see an electric piano, electric guitars and a complete drum set on the side altar.

I would agree that there is a time and a place for inspired christian rock, but not during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Besides, how does one get around the guidlines from the Vatican on the use of certain instruments during Mass?

Excerpt from Musican Sacram published by the Congregation of Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments:

1. Musical instruments can be very useful in sacred celebrations, whether they accompany the singing or whether they are played as solo instruments.

The pipe organ is to be held in high esteem in the Latin Church, since it is its traditional instrument, the sound of which can add a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lift up men’s minds to God and higher things.

The use of other instruments may also be admitted in divine worship, given the decision and consent of the competent territorial authority, provided that the instruments are suitable for sacred use, or can be adapted to it, that they are in keeping with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.

1. In permitting and using musical instruments, the culture and traditions of individual peoples must be taken into account. **However, those instruments, which are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only, are to be altogether prohibited from every liturgical celebration and from popular devotions.
   **
   Any musical instrument permitted in divine worship should be used in such a way that it meets the needs of the liturgical celebration, and is in the interests both of the beauty of worship and the edification of the faithful.

As Always, I will follow the Teachings and guidlines of the Magistarium of the Roman Catholic Church.

In His Peace!

 

[HelpingHands]

One thing I noticed is that many of the people who went to the LifeTeen Mass were actually babyboomers. Anyways, Palamas, you make some good points, I think. I disagree that teens these days are basically adults. I think our culture encourages a prolonged adolesence.

I know that I liked the LifeTeen more at first when I stumbled on one, and then after awhile got tired of it. I’ve heard the whole youth group aspect of it has been very positive for the kids, actually encouraging vocations. Maybe, after some modifications the kinks can be worked out.

 

[JButky]

HelpingHands:

One thing I noticed is that many of the people who went to the LifeTeen Mass were actually babyboomers.

And that is not a coincidence either. In the music trade, fostering this into houses of worship (to include non-Catholic denominations) is being done by the industry to promote instrument sales. Many of the baby boomers who hung up their guitars, and drums, and this style of music after the 60’s to become parents are now back on doing their old “gig”. The venue has changed and they have fostered another generation to engage in the style of their youth. The industry sees this as an entirely new market ripe for heavy marketing. Hence the evolving of the so called “Praise Bands” which are acceptable in many mainline Protestant churches since they are social gatherings by nature. It is the transformed concert stage of their past and is being passed onto their children and fostered through an industry that is eager to capitalize on a new market.

It is a whole industry. And this is part of the reason the Byzantine liturgy is mostly unaffected. The rise of ecumenism and its misunderstanding has allowed this phenomenon to enter the Roman liturgy. Byzantium is rather insulated from this particular causation and as such suffers less from that influence.

Joe B

 

[maryalene]

I’m not familiar with Life Teen, but rock music at Mass doesn’t particularly bother me so long as it is Catholic rock music and it is music that the congregation can sing too (as opposed to a group giving a “performance”). If the words are theologically sound, I don’t see why it matters what the beat of the music is. If some people can give greater praise to God by singing a rock styled song, more power to them. I think God is pleased by all our attempts to worship and praise him. I think the intention in our heart is most important. As for the teens around the alter, that’s another issue…

 

[Dr.Bombay]

This is another example of the ridiculous balkanization of the Mass of Paul VI. Teen Mass, Kiddie Mass, Mass of Reconcilliation, Spanish Mass, Vietnamese Mass, Portugese Mass, Latin Mass, ad orientem, ad populum, contemporary Mass, traditional Mass, guitar Mass, organ Mass, no music Mass, blah, blah, blah…How about a Mass for dogs and cats? Or a Desperate Housewives Mass? Oooooh, wouldn’t that appeal to popular sensibilities???

Mass is like a box of chocolates. You never know what ya gonna get. :nope:

 

[tom.wineman]

It seems to be easier to acquiesce to teen confusion in liturgical music that to instruct them in the purpose of it. Liturgical music is more than just a good time shake your booty perfomance.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

Thrilled with the response in ny first debate thread!

But then again I don’t care for the modern hymns we have in our regular Masses either. If it’s been written since World War II I’m not likely to care for it.

Same here, and I am 14!

All of the advocates of LifeTeen here, please hear me out: I am a teenager who finds these Liturgies a disgrace to the Roman Church’s millenia of tradition, wherein it took the utmost care to ensure the changes were adopted for the benefit of the ENTIRE Church, not just a load of punks who will only attend a Mass if it doesn’t interfere with their incessant desire to listen to far more rock music than is deemed necessary.

Actually, except for the computer, pop culturally I am fairly well stuck in the 1920’s. I find that once you hit the 60’s, the culture is fairly well destroyed.

Originally Posted by JohnPaul0
Psalm 33:3 “Sing to God a new song; skillfully play with joyful chant”

Consider this: at some point in history, every hymn was a new song. Eventually, time will separate the wheat from the chaff in music. I can appreciate that you don’t want to be part of the milling process, but I hope you can recognize that it the process always has been there.

Peace.

Yes, but “popular culture” and such music for the multitudes didn’t really arise until the phonograph and the record. Those “new songs” were written TO BE HYMNS, not as entertainment. This would be equivocable to saying that the Eucharistic host is too bland, and that we should replace it with small, cheese-filled pretzels.

With the Music: The teens find the hymns too bland, but, rather than educate them as to why they are where they are, just as no longer educating about unleavened bread and its tie-in to Passover, we adapt the music to fit their tastes, instead.

Same principle: Nothing against small, cheese-filled pretzels, which I rather like, but they have no place at all in the Mass, right?

.