"Life Teen" Liturgy and it's destruction of centuries of Holy Tradition

[Dr.Bombay]

Servus Pio XII:

Same principle: Nothing against small, cheese-filled pretzels, which I rather like, but they have no place at all in the Mass, right?

It depends on whether you mean the plain cheese or the nacho cheese?

 

[netmilsmom]

Dr. Bombay:

Mass is like a box of chocolates. You never know what ya gonna get. :nope:

You’ve been to my Diocese, haven’t you?
Quite right!
We should be able to walk into a parish and get a Mass, not a pseudo-whatever ceremony.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

You’ve been to my Diocese, haven’t you?
Quite right!
We should be able to walk into a parish and get a Mass, not a pseudo-whatever ceremony.

Yes, I wonder if there was ever a time in the Church when you could walk into any Catholic Church anywhere and be guaranteed of seeing the same Holy Mass?

Nowadays, you don’t know if you’re going to get guitars, bongos, organs, mariacchis, pianos, acapella, girl altar boys, boy altar boys, boy altar boys who look like girls, girl EMHCs who look like boys, the prayers of the Church or the prayers invented by the priest, women prancing in the sanctuary, men prancing in the sacristy, not to mention the variety of languages you might encounter (except for Latin, of course).

The Mass used to be the one, great unifying force in the Church, the thing that made us truly universal or Catholic. Now it’s becoming more and more a point of division and rancor. Is this what the Fathers of Vatican II had in mind, I wonder?

 

[netmilsmom]

Dr. Bombay:

Yes, I wonder if there was ever a time in the Church when you could walk into any Catholic Church anywhere and be guaranteed of seeing the same Holy Mass?

Nowadays, you don’t know if you’re going to get guitars, bongos, organs, mariacchis, pianos, acapella, girl altar boys, boy altar boys, boy altar boys who look like girls, girl EMHCs who look like boys, the prayers of the Church or the prayers invented by the priest, women prancing in the sanctuary, men prancing in the sacristy, not to mention the variety of languages you might encounter (except for Latin, of course).

The Mass used to be the one, great unifying force in the Church, the thing that made us truly universal or Catholic. Now it’s becoming more and more a point of division and rancor. Is this what the Fathers of Vatican II had in mind, I wonder?

I am not kidding about this and I swear on my parent’s graves that it is true.
I have a friend at a parish in Southern MI that has a cross dressing EMHC. He wears purple nail polish and matching skirts.
I wonder too if this is what the Fathers had in mind.:bigyikes:

 

[RichT]

Well this has given me a great laugh just sitting here and reading all these posts. So far, I have read that teenagers are essentually adults and should have no problem grasping the concept of mass the same way as adults do. I have read that teenagers are no different than their adult counterparts. That is a riot! As far as I am concerned every teen I know is from a different planet. They are in a world of their own and they are nothing like their adult counterparts.

They are constantly bombarded with drugs, and sex by the media and their piers. Should they obstain, or just us condoms? Is it okay to just take a sip of that beer, or should they smoke a little pot instead? Yeah, I guess we’re lucky they are essentually adults and can make the right decisions! Teens are a whole different culture. And, yes some of them are a little harder to get to than others.

Life Teen is doing a great job at bringing in a lot of kids who otherwise would be out smoking dope at lunch time and thinking up creative ways to get into their girlfriends pants. I’m not talking about teens who have church going parents. You would be amazed at how many teens show up who aren’t even catholic, or who have never even been to church.

And as far as rock music, it’s amazing at how many people automatically label music as rock simply because there are a few electric instruments and a drum kit involved.

As someone already pointed out, Life Teen was asked to make some changes and they did. Now, if there are a few renegade priests who have decided to do their own thing, then that isn’t the fault of Life Teen. In fact, if they are doing their own thing with the Life Teen masses, then they are also doing their own thing with the regular Sunday Morning masses as well.

And by the way, for the original poster, Life Teen isn’t a recent thing, they celebrated their 20th year this year! Apparently they aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

Now, can we please move on to a new topic?

 

[maryalene]

Servus Pio XII:

All of the advocates of LifeTeen here, please hear me out: I am a teenager who finds these Liturgies a disgrace to the Roman Church’s millenia of tradition, wherein it took the utmost care to ensure the changes were adopted for the benefit of the ENTIRE Church, not just a load of punks who will only attend a Mass if it doesn’t interfere with their incessant desire to listen to far more rock music than is deemed necessary.

This is taking us a little off topic, but we recently read “Triumph” by HW Crocker III for our parish book discussion. It was a good read and although I think it focused a bit too much on Church politics as opposed to theology, it was fairly enlightening. Anyway, what surprised me was all the turf wars that seemed to spring up in the Church over the centuries. It seemed like it was, at various points, the Italians v. the French, the French v the Spainish, the Irish v. the Italians - all Catholic but still at odds with one another. It was made clear that, at times, the popes may not have always been acting in the entire Church’s best interest. I think the book really impressed upon me the human-ness of the Church. You might find the book interesting as well if you ever get a chance to pick up it up.

 

[ncjohn]

Servus Pio XII:

The Eucharist is still the Eucharist, but the Eucharist is Jesus. Jesus should not be treated BY THE MUSICAL SETTING as some hip pop-culture icon. Rather, he should be treated as someone to be revered in a solemn and holy way.

I don’t see this as being the case–Jesus being treated as a pop-culture icon.

Music speaks very deeply to the human soul and different people are stirred by different types of music. Those who artistically express themselves through music also do so in a variety of ways, and I would never presume to judge someone’s musical gift to God as inadequate. It is *their * prayer, and if it resonates with others that is a great blessing.

While I have days I would not want to experience it myself, there are other days when I have actually been present and found it very uplifting. As long as it is lyrically appropriate and not contrary to Church teaching, I have no problem with it at all.

I’m sure you recognize that not everyone would come to a Mass with only Gregorian Chant, as beautiful as it is, and many would probably consider it more objectionable than the Contemporary Christian you don’t like if for no other reason than they can’t understand what is being sung. Different strokes for different folks!

Peace,

 

[Michael_Welter]

I run the sound for our Life Teen Mass, and I love the music. If it is done right, the Mass is very reverent. I find the music to be very uplifting, and it draws me closer to God. Personally, I don’t like Gregorian chant, or traditional choir music.

We’ve had Life Teen in our parish for more than 15 years, and I’ve seen the tremendous results that it has had on our youth, including my three children. It is completely focused on the Eucharist, and teaches the teens all about the Catholic faith. It has brought our entire parish to a higher spiritual level. I thank God for Life Teen.

 

[migurl]

I understand that the music is different because it is geared towards teenagers, but I think we should be using Catholic music, not “christian rock”. I think that hand motions and dancing during mass shouldn’t happen and that projectors should not be inside the church. I personally miss the Gregorian chants and wish with all my heart that there was a latin mass offered in my town. If it is a Catholic mass have Catholic music. THe life teen “educational” stuff is a whole different mess.

 

[Iohannes]

Michael Welter:

I run the sound for our Life Teen Mass, and I love the music. If it is done right, the Mass is very reverent. I find the music to be very uplifting, and it draws me closer to God. Personally, I don’t like Gregorian chant, or traditional choir music.

We’ve had Life Teen in our parish for more than 15 years, and I’ve seen the tremendous results that it has had on our youth, including my three children. It is completely focused on the Eucharist, and teaches the teens all about the Catholic faith. It has brought our entire parish to a higher spiritual level. I thank God for Life Teen.

Gregorian chant is the official music of the Church and suppose to have a pride in place in the liturgy. Of course, American Catholics have been conquered and they do not know it. Lifeteen and rock and roll liturgies are only symptoms of a conquered Catholic.

Rock music came from rebellion.

 

[Michael_Welter]

migurl:

I understand that the music is different because it is geared towards teenagers, but I think we should be using Catholic music, not “christian rock”.

I’m not sure I understand what is meant by “Catholic” music. I have heard songs written by Catholic composers that contain heresy, and many songs written by non-Catholic Christians that are truly inspired. This may be hard for many Catholics to believe, but God can, and does, work through non-Catholics.

Iohannes:

Gregorian chant is the official music of the Church and suppose to have a pride in place in the liturgy.

The Church has clearly authorized the use of other types of music within the Mass. In fact, even at the Vatican, you can hear music in the Mass that is not Gregorian Chant.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

Well, in my school we had a Mass, if you can call it as such, set to rock music. They had bloody amplifiers in the gym and an ELECTRIC GUITAR at Mass! I must say it was the only time I have actually cried in a Mass (stations of the cross is an entirely different thing). I cried for the Church, I cried for the Tradition, and I cried for the teenagers being mislead to believe that the Church should adapt to the age.

I can now speak from experience that such Masses are irreverent, dissolute, and bordering on apostate.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Servus Pio XII:

Well, in my school we had a Mass, if you can call it as such, set to rock music. They had bloody amplifiers in the gym and an ELECTRIC GUITAR at Mass! I must say it was the only time I have actually cried in a Mass (stations of the cross is an entirely different thing). I cried for the Church, I cried for the Tradition, and I cried for the teenagers being mislead to believe that the Church should adapt to the age.

I can now speak from experience that such Masses are irreverent, dissolute, and bordering on apostate.

Take heart. The liturgical silly season that we’ve witnessed for years in the Church will eventually fade away. It’s but a blip in the two millenia history of the Church. That’s why it’s called a FAD (For A Day). There’s a difference between sacred and profane music. I’ve been known to enjoy Toby Keith but that doesn’t mean I want to hear him bellowing a song at Mass.

Children and teenagers are perfectly capable of appreciating reverent liturgies. The attempt to make Mass more “appealing” by injecting a misguided aura of “hipness” is ridiculous. Gee, kids, what would ya rather do: Go to Mass with a bunch of aging baby boomers trying to recapture their youth? Or, stay home and watch MTV for an hour?

Maybe if kids actually knew what was going on at Mass they wouldn’t care if it was “hip” or not? Catechesis: A radical plan to appeal to today’s youth.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Servus Pio XII:

Well, in my school we had a Mass, if you can call it as such, set to rock music. They had bloody amplifiers in the gym and an ELECTRIC GUITAR at Mass! I must say it was the only time I have actually cried in a Mass (stations of the cross is an entirely different thing). I cried for the Church, I cried for the Tradition, and I cried for the teenagers being mislead to believe that the Church should adapt to the age.

I can now speak from experience that such Masses are irreverent, dissolute, and bordering on apostate.

Oh my gosh! The type or style of music has absolutely nothing to do with apostacy! The fact that one person doesn’t like the music doesn’t make it wrong. There was a time when Gregorian Chant was new, but that didn’t make it wrong. Our Church is diverse enough to make room for all types of musical preferrences.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Michael Welter:

Oh my gosh! The type or style of music has absolutely nothing to do with apostacy! The fact that one person doesn’t like the music doesn’t make it wrong. There was a time when Gregorian Chant was new, but that didn’t make it wrong. Our Church is diverse enough to make room for all types of musical preferrences.

Gregorian Chant was probably based on Jewish liturgical chant from ancient days. So, it’s been many millenia since it was considered new. :tiphat:

Also, there’s a difference between sacred music and profane music. Pink Floyd might be a fine musical group. That doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to play “Money” at the Offertory.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Dr. Bombay:

Gregorian Chant was probably based on Jewish liturgical chant from ancient days. So, it’s been many millenia since it was considered new. :tiphat:

And modern rock music is based on polyphonic music styles that have been around for centuries. So it’s not new either. It is, however, a new way of presenting it, just like Gregorian Chant may have been a new way of presenting ancient Jewish music.
Dr. Bombay:

Also, there’s a difference between sacred music and profane music. Pink Floyd might be a fine musical group. That doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to play “Money” at the Offertory.

Music is profane because of the words, not the musical style. Personally, I find that music can includes drums and electric guitar and be done very reverently and worshipful. In fact, it draws me into worship far more than Gregorian Chant or traditional choir music.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Michael Welter:

And modern rock music is based on polyphonic music styles that have been around for centuries. So it’s not new either. It is, however, a new way of presenting it, just like Gregorian Chant may have been a new way of presenting ancient Jewish music.

Music is profane because of the words, not the musical style. Personally, I find that music can includes drums and electric guitar and be done very reverently and worshipful. In fact, it draws me into worship far more than Gregorian Chant or traditional choir music.

I meant “profane” in the sense of “Nonreligious in subject matter, form, or use; secular” not “Vulgar; coarse.” There’s secular music and then there’s religious music. I don’t think secular music has a place in Church. Is Peter, Paul and Mary’s “Leaving on a Jet Plane” appropriate as the recessional hymn on the Feast of the Ascension? Methinks not. :nope:

 

[Kielbasi]

For all of the criticisms and excesses of the Life Teen Liturgy, at least we don’t have the Hip hop Mass (yet).

Some Episcopalian churches are now using the Hip Hop Mass, developed at Trinity Episcopal Church in the Bronx.

diosova.org/cross/sep04/hiphop1.htm

Father Holder said, “Our hopes and our goals are high for the Trinity Hip Hop Mass and our hopes are high for the effort we started today. We want to sing the ‘new song’ of Jesus Christ in the vernacular and language of our younger generations. Our celebrations are ecumenical and widely diverse. We hope that the Trinity Hip Hop will serve as a model for other parishes and communities throughout the church so that we truly become evangelists, in institutions such as this, in the street and at the altar. If we do this, we will prosper and build the Kingdom of God, here in Virginia and throughout the world.”

 

[proud2Bpapist]

I am a college student who has had contact with LifeTeen in one way or another for the past 7 years. My opinion of its musical and liturgical style has evolved over the years, but I still think that contemporary music can be used in the Mass when in prudent moderation.

In my early teens, I loved the different, exciting feel of the teen masses at my parish and in youth group activities. There is nothing quite like the feeling of a room full of teens at a youth rally or mission trip pumped up for God, singing “rock n roll” songs about him. (guitars, drums, etc) A lot of the songs written expressly for LifeTeen by Tom Booth or Matt Maher draw their lyrics directly from scripture and call the congregation to worship.

That being said, I also wouldnt want the LifeTeen style to be the only Mass I ever attend. There is a real need for silence in the liturgy, and we can rejoice in the Lord just as well with classic sacred music.
The LT pratices of teens around the altar, etc are indeed liturgically illicit and some effort has been made to phase them out. Not every teen is attracted to the hand-clapping, song belting atmosphere of LT, and feels put off or intimidated by it.
The LT religious ed program, however, is well thought out and really wants to challenge kids to love Christ and the Church and feel like they belong there. I like to think there can be a liturgical happy medium combining the best of ancient and comtemporary Christian music.

 

[ncjohn]

Dr. Bombay:

I meant “profane” in the sense of “Nonreligious in subject matter, form, or use; secular” not “Vulgar; coarse.” There’s secular music and then there’s religious music. I don’t think secular music has a place in Church. Is Peter, Paul and Mary’s “Leaving on a Jet Plane” appropriate as the recessional hymn on the Feast of the Ascension? Methinks not. :nope:

Dr. Bombay,

I’ve read many of your posts over time now and you seem to be well versed in tradition and Church history and I have learned much from that. Every once in a while though you get into illogical presentations that damage your credibility.

It is quite clear that you do not like any “non-traditional” music in the Mass. That is certainly your right and I respect that. Dictating it to be “unacceptable” however is truly unfair however; beyond that, there is a condescending tone present here that implies that people who don’t have a problem with something beyond Gregorian Chant are somehow just misguided and “liberal,” which becomes downright uncharitable and judgmental.

Throwing up straw men like “Money” and “Leaving on a Jet Plane” are irrelevant and misleading. Nobody that I know of here is proposing any such things. The music I am talking about–and I think Michale would agree although I will not presume to speak for him–is very reverent and scripture-based in its content. While you may not like its presentation, others are very deeply moved by it. That is a personal thing as people have always been drawn to different musical styles. To color someone else’s prayer offering to God as unacceptable or inadequate–or to claim it to be “apostacy” as the OP has done–is to set oneself up as the Pharisee standing off praying “Thank you Lord for not making me like those other sinners.”

I don’t find it unexpected from the OP, who at the ripe old age of 14 doesn’t have the life experience or knowledge yet to know better, but I personally find that disappointing from one whose knowledge I respect. I would pray that you might re-examine this and give some lattitude in judging other’s ways of communicating with our God. Having made each of us as an individual in His image, I tend to think He’s able to discern their devotion and communicate with them on an individual basis.

Peace be with you all,