"Life Teen" Liturgy and it's destruction of centuries of Holy Tradition

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Servus Pio XII:
The Eucharist is still the Eucharist, but the Eucharist is Jesus. Jesus should not be treated BY THE MUSICAL SETTING as some hip pop-culture icon. Rather, he should be treated as someone to be revered in a solemn and holy way.
So should he be treated as so boring stuck up upper class guy whith white hair with all that classical music? Look, i would love to see a return to the old tridentine rite of mass but life teen definitley has its place.
 
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Topher:
So should he be treated as so boring stuck up upper class guy whith white hair with all that classical music? Look, i would love to see a return to the old tridentine rite of mass but life teen definitley has its place.
Why?
 
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palmas85:
Because God is not an old man with a beard in heaven but a loving father and it is OK to express that side of his nature as well as the side of justice, and reverence.
 
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Topher:
Because God is not an old man with a beard in heaven but a loving father and it is OK to express that side of his nature as well as the side of justice, and reverence.
So what does that have to do with Teen Life Mass? Nothing at all. Teen Life, Life Teen, whatever, as far as I can see does nothing except separate teens from the community. And as far as God not being an old man with a beard in heaven, I’ve never seen him but I’m certainly glad that you have.
 
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palmas85:
So what does that have to do with Teen Life Mass? Nothing at all. Teen Life, Life Teen, whatever, as far as I can see does nothing except separate teens from the community. And as far as God not being an old man with a beard in heaven, I’ve never seen him but I’m certainly glad that you have.
Aparently you do not understand traditional systematic theology. The reason that I don’t believe that God is an old man with a beard has nothing to do with my ever having seen him. I believe that God is not such because the theology of the Church and of St. Thomas Aquinas illustrates that God is not such. You really should read the Summa Theoligica. And a begining student of theology like your self should be able to understand it because St. Thomas wrote it for beginers. Don’t be put off by its technical language, like many people often are. It really is more understandable than one might think. I think you’ll enjoy it.
As for the life teen mass, classical music and gregorian chant worked in the past because people really did have a sense of the granduer of such music and, thus, it really did elavate their minds to God. However, modern teenagers do not have that sense of such music and the music that does elevate their minds to God is the beautiful music played at most life teen masses.
 
I’ve never been to a life teen mass, but here’s my opinion.

My church has a very small youth presence…basically nonexistent…which is really sad, and difficult to live the faith when you don’t have that support from peers. Some of the teens at my church started looking for more fellowship, more ways to bring kids into the faith and the sacrafice of the mass. just recently have several of us started trying to bring it to life in a way our generation can relate to. One of the ways we’re working at it is by starting a youth band called TBCY (Teens Behind Christ, YEAH!) which I play keyboards and do vocals for. We play for mass on the somewhat rare Saturdays that our youth group meets. We tend to mix more modern worship songs in with the usual mass hymns…during communion we’ll play a traditional song like Seek Ye First, On Eagle’s Wings, or We Are One Body, and then for the meditation bring in a song like Breathe, I Surrender, or Your Love is Extravegant. In my personal opinion, mixing those traditional songs with contemporary songs that teens recognize is one way of bringing teens into the mass and making them active participants…now for the other side…we have A LOT of older people that make up the majority of our congregation, and they don’t like the contemporary music, the guitar, the drums because it isn’t traditional…I can understand…but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with updating the music a little bit, especially if it’s all definitely still in complete worship of God…
I once walked out of church very moved by the music that our youth band played…for some reason it really helped me connect with the Eucharist because I was familiar with it and it was more my generation…it brought me into the mass and let me put all of my energy into the sacrafice I was participating int. It was powerful, and moved me to tears. It was one of the best masses I’ve attended because of the way the music brought me in to Christ’s sacrafice. I mentioned this on the way home, and was lectured by my father about how music doesn’t make the mass, how contemporary music like that distracted from the sacrifice. I understand his point, but I don’t think I agree with it…one of the ways God connects to us is through music, so if the music played can help someone center on God and fully live the sacrafice of the Eucharist, then why shouldn’t it be played?

Yes, I’ve rambled…basically, from my standpoint, I love the old hymns that I’ve sung since…well…I was born…but when I hear the band strike up the songs that I listen to on the radio and on my CDs, I recognize them, I can relate to them, they bring the mass to be something that I can understand and be a part of…they help bring me to focus on God…so if they do that for anyone else, I believe that they should be played, not to dismantle Tradition, but to bring it into a new generation and make the mass more alive for them.

In Him,
Britty
 
As for the life teen mass, classical music and gregorian chant worked in the past because people really did have a sense of the granduer of such music and, thus, it really did elavate their minds to God. However, modern teenagers do not have that sense of such music and the music that does elevate their minds to God is the beautiful music played at most life teen masses.”

I’ve yet to find a person so pop-culture immersed to not feel a sacred feeling when Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony is being sung. Granted, it does make it harder for the concept of today’s, “buddy Jesus” to make an appearance, but it does make the sight of the angles singing, “Holy, Holy, Holy” more visible. And therein lies the reason why sacred music ought to be used in the Mass (SC: 114, 120, 121).

As for those who don’t understand why we need such “boring music” at Mass, it might be time for them to be taught some basic lessons about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, because most likely, those who find the sacred music of the Church to be ‘boring’ are also those who don’t see the point in sacred silence during the Mass nor the apostolic tradition of the priest facing “ad orientem” during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Just my two-cents. 🙂

Adam
 
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Topher:
Aparently you do not understand traditional systematic theology. The reason that I don’t believe that God is an old man with a beard has nothing to do with my ever having seen him. I believe that God is not such because the theology of the Church and of St. Thomas Aquinas illustrates that God is not such. You really should read the Summa Theoligica. And a begining student of theology like your self should be able to understand it because St. Thomas wrote it for beginers. Don’t be put off by its technical language, like many people often are. It really is more understandable than one might think. I think you’ll enjoy it.
As for the life teen mass, classical music and gregorian chant worked in the past because people really did have a sense of the granduer of such music and, thus, it really did elavate their minds to God. However, modern teenagers do not have that sense of such music and the music that does elevate their minds to God is the beautiful music played at most life teen masses.
Apparently you do not understand sarcasm. Sorry to have hit one over your head. I too do not believe that God is an old man with a beard. That is of course unless he decided to manifest himself in that form. And you may be surprised that I have read Summa Theoligica. One of the advantages or disadvantages of a Jesuit education. you know. And no, I am not a beginning student of theology, as anyone who has read my posts can easily tell. But I do have a hard set of core beliefs about the faith that have not as yet been twisted into something that does not resemble Catholicism or even Christianity of any form.

And simply put, not believing in an old fashioned vision of God the Father has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Life Teen is necessary or even desired. As to the music, I will take a pass on it. If the teens of today need the music that is played at Life Teen Masses to elevate their souls, then they have even bigger problems than we thought we did back in the late 60’s when all this nonsense started.

Oh and I did enjoy Summa Theologica quite a bit. The Imitation of Christ by Kempis was quite good as well. I never could really get into Saint Augustine though, probably a big loss on my part.
 
I’m 47 years old, and I go to Life Teen Mass. Do I need the music to elevate my soul to God? Of course not. I don’t need any music to elevate my soul to God. But music really helps. Scripture is full of examples of music being used for sacred purposes. The truth is, music stirs the soul. The style of music that stirs the soul depends on the individual. Gregorian Chant is beautiful, but it does not elevate my soul to God. I can tolerate about 5 minutes of it.

However, I love contemporary praise and worship music. It does lift my soul to God. It makes the Mass a beautiful experience for me. What I’m hearing from some members of this forum, is that I am bordering on Satanism because I love this style of music. Do you truly believe that I am less Catholic because I prefer this style of music? Did Jesus specify that Mass needed Gregorian Chant? No! In fact, He said “Make a joyful noise unto the Lord.” He loves it when we are joyful, when we sing and dance in His presence, with a heart of worship. This is all Scriptural! Gregorian Chant is not mentioned in Scripture.

Stringed instruments and tambourines are all mentioned in Scripture as being appropriate for worship. God loves it when we bring our best to Him. He has given people talent to write music. Should they not be using their talents for His glory? Did He not command us to sing a new song? Let’s be obedient, and do what He has commanded!
 
Michael Welter:
I’m 47 years old, and I go to Life Teen Mass. Do I need the music to elevate my soul to God? Of course not. I don’t need any music to elevate my soul to God. But music really helps. Scripture is full of examples of music being used for sacred purposes. The truth is, music stirs the soul. The style of music that stirs the soul depends on the individual. Gregorian Chant is beautiful, but it does not elevate my soul to God. I can tolerate about 5 minutes of it.

However, I love contemporary praise and worship music. It does lift my soul to God. It makes the Mass a beautiful experience for me. What I’m hearing from some members of this forum, is that I am bordering on Satanism because I love this style of music. Do you truly believe that I am less Catholic because I prefer this style of music? Did Jesus specify that Mass needed Gregorian Chant? No! In fact, He said “Make a joyful noise unto the Lord.” He loves it when we are joyful, when we sing and dance in His presence, with a heart of worship. This is all Scriptural! Gregorian Chant is not mentioned in Scripture.

Stringed instruments and tambourines are all mentioned in Scripture as being appropriate for worship. God loves it when we bring our best to Him. He has given people talent to write music. Should they not be using their talents for His glory? Did He not command us to sing a new song? Let’s be obedient, and do what He has commanded!
47 and going to life teen mass. I certainly hope that you are there as some type of chaperone or Extarordinary Minister or something official. What on earth would possess a man of 47 to go to a Mass that is obviously intended for 20 somethings and below? Of course that could be the whole purpose of the Life Teen Masses, to give the oldsters a chance to re-live their youth. Given what I see happening in the Church these days that scenario would not surprise me. It could also explain why Life Teen hangs on like it does.
 
Hello,

Here are some excerpts from the Instrumentum Laboris (working document) of the Synod of Bishops of the Catholic Church this October. The whole document can be read here.

61 … The faithful need to know the standard Gregorian chants, which have been composed to meet the needs of people of all times and places, in virtue of their simplicity, refinement and agility in form and rhythm. As a result, the songs and hymns presently in use need to be reconsidered. To enter into sacred or religious usage, instrumental or vocal music is to have a sense of prayer, dignity and beauty. This requires an integrity of form, expressing true artistry, corresponding to the various rites and capable of adaptation to the legitimate demands of inculturation. This is to be done without detracting from the idea of universality. Gregorian chant fulfills these needs and can therefore serve as a model, according to Pope John Paul II. Musicians and poets should be encouraged to compose new hymns, according to liturgical standards, which contain authentic catechetical teaching on the paschal mystery, Sunday and the Eucharist.

62 … In other responses some lamented the poor quality of translations of liturgical texts and many musical texts in current languages, maintaining that they lacked beauty and were sometimes theologically unclear, thereby contributing to a weakening of Church teaching and to a misunderstanding of prayer. A few responses made particular mention of music and singing at Youth Masses. In this regard, it is important to avoid musical forms which, because of their profane use, are not conducive to prayer. Some responses note a certain eagerness in composing new songs, to the point of almost yielding to a consumer mentality, showing little concern for the quality of the music and text, and easily overlooking the artistic patrimony which has been theologically and musically effective in the Church’s liturgy.

(emphasis mine)

Peace to you all, and may God bless you always.
 
we have life teen mass at our church, it is two times a month and they offer two services, non life teen at 9 a.m. and life teen at 11 a.m. that way the life teen and their parents and those who like the life teen mass can go and if you don’t like it then you go at 9 and no problem. I haven’t been but when my kids are teens, which one will be in one year, if she takes interest, away we will go, I only wish they would have had something like this when I was a teen and hey, I’m 31 so that is not too long ago, I was a typical teen, did not want to go to church, thought it was boring,etc.
Life Teen would have been something that I would have enjoyed, could have gotten involved in and my peers would have also been involved. I say, if it is done with respect then it is just fine, this day and age we have teens that are so far away from God, we need to get them back, in some cases reaching them is a matter of life and death, teens are making some very serious choices these days, they need God more than they will realize or understand. I’m all for reaching out to teens and for those who don’t like it…don’t go 👍
 
This has been an interesting thread.

When Lifeteen came to town, we had to check it out. Our two oldest kids becaming mildly interested, although our daughter found the charismatic style of ‘choruses’ rather off-putting (yes, but do they have to repeat everything THREE times??).

Our daughter stuck with it almost until her graduation. We saw an evolution. The music got a bit better. A bit more ‘Catholic’ although with a distinct Praise and Worship feel.

There was still a preponderance of 'Me ‘n Jesus’ music, which is not entirely appropriate at Mass, given the corporate nature of this prayer.

We have heard songs there that were indistiguishable from a secular love song. Plaintive lyrics, no mention of God or Jesus…I wish I could remember the title. It was quite popular for a while.

Eventually the volume came down a bit. As a liturgical musician myself, I can tell you that blasting the heck out of the congregation is NOT conducive to their singing. People need to be able to hear themselves.

Eventually the teens were prevented from gathering around the altar. And clapping to the music was discouraged.

The music leader, in my experience there, never did stop with the charismatic style mutterings into the mic…

What eventually turned our daughter off was that there was opinion being disguised as fact. At one point the leader said that the Holy Spirit was the most important part of the Trinity, because He got things working (or something like that). The final blow for my daughter seemed to be when one of the kids asked this same leader why, in iconography, Jesus often held his hand in that strange (blessing) position. The leader replied that that was just the way the painter wanted it.

My daughter looked at her friend, who was looking back at her at this point, with eyebrows raised. My daughter mutters that NOTHING in iconography is there ‘just because’ the artist wants it that way!

Now given that parents are not encouraged to attend the teaching meetings (my daughter related this all to me), how do we know the teaching is good?

The local group is fading fast…I wonder why.
 
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palmas85:
47 and going to life teen mass. I certainly hope that you are there as some type of chaperone or Extarordinary Minister or something official.
Chaperone? Our teens don’t need a chaperone at Mass.
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palmas85:
What on earth would possess a man of 47 to go to a Mass that is obviously intended for 20 somethings and below?
Well, that would be the Holy Spirit. I am in love with God, and I strive daily to give the Holy Spirit permission to work in my life. I go to the Life Teen Mass because the music draws me to God. I also serve at that Mass as the audio technician. When I was 13, I accepted the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and accepted charismatic gofts, such as tongues and prophecy. That spirituality has kept me Catholic, and the Life Teen Mass meets my needs.
 
I was a Protestant, now I’m taking classes to be Catholic. I helped lead worship at a Presbyterian’s church contemporary service, but I was always Pentecostal. It’s confusing. I realize.

While leading worship, though I actually got a greater appreciation for different types of worship music then I did when I grew Pentecostal with all contempary. I remember we were going to sing a hymn for them How Great Thou Art, and both of us just remembered growing up the tune, (I never cared for the tune.) However as we practiced it, and we started singing about Jesus on the cross for us, both of us just started getting overwhelmed. Needless to say, I’ve grown to love that hymn and a lot of older hymns. As one former professors at my Evangelical Pentecostal seminary said, it use to be theology to music, now most contemporary services aren’t, the words can be a drag…However, I do like contemporary songs especially the ones that are based on the Psalms or that really deal with Jesus on the Cross.

Sometimes though I do think that Praise and worship contemporary style becomes more about having a good time than worshiping, but it really can be worship. I think there’s a time and a place for everything, although I find that I enjoy really enjoy the quiet reverence of the mass.

I did go to a life teen mass, accidently. And compared to the contemporary worship I’m use to, i thought the music at that Church was more 60’s. I actually did prefer how they sang the liturgy at normal times. While they had clapping; the clapping came after the closing hymn to Lead me Lord. So, I thought in that cases it was kind of appropriate for the moment.

My feeling is that perhaps rock music isn’t necessary not for me to say. Although I want to point out that for a long time the Church spoke against any form of instrumental music because it was linked to idolatry. Whoever I want to point out that different cultures have different types of music, and I feel very strongly that we should encourage these cultures to use their music to glorify God. (This is my the former missions student saying this.)

I believe God deserves to be worshiped in different ways, and I especially think our youth should be encouraged to make new songs to Jesus. The Church has always encouraged art. Are their life teen masses that perhaps go to far; I’m sure. But I’m sure there are ones that do good things too.
 
Michael Welter:
. When I was 13, I accepted the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and accepted charismatic gofts, such as tongues and prophecy. That spirituality has kept me Catholic, and the Life Teen Mass meets my needs.
I have to ask, were you Catholic when you were baptized by the Holy Spirit? I’m not being a jerk here, I really want to know.
 
Michael Welter:
Chaperone? Our teens don’t need a chaperone at Mass.

Well, that would be the Holy Spirit. I am in love with God, and I strive daily to give the Holy Spirit permission to work in my life. I go to the Life Teen Mass because the music draws me to God. I also serve at that Mass as the audio technician. When I was 13, I accepted the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and accepted charismatic gofts, such as tongues and prophecy. That spirituality has kept me Catholic, and the Life Teen Mass meets my needs.
What exactly do you mean that you accepted Baptism of the Holy Spirit and accepted gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues? That sounds like a Pentecostal Protestant Baptism. I was unaware that Catholics were Baptized in that fashion.

Since you are working at the Life Teen Mass it makes some sense that you would go. I couldn’t think of any valid reason for a mature adult to attend one thats all.
 
Michael Welter:
When I was 13, I accepted the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and accepted charismatic gofts, such as tongues and prophecy. That spirituality has kept me Catholic, and the Life Teen Mass meets my needs.
When you speak in tongues, do you actually speak a foreign language that a person can understand, or do you just speak gibberish? And what prophecies have you been gifted with? Please share with us. Don’t keep your light hidden under a basket.

I am a jerk, but I still want to know. :cool:
 
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ForeverAdam:
I’ve yet to find a person so pop-culture immersed to not feel a sacred feeling when Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony is being sung. Granted, it does make it harder for the concept of today’s, “buddy Jesus” to make an appearance, but it does make the sight of the angles singing, “Holy, Holy, Holy” more visible. And therein lies the reason why sacred music ought to be used in the Mass (SC: 114, 120, 121).

As for those who don’t understand why we need such “boring music” at Mass, it might be time for them to be taught some basic lessons about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, because most likely, those who find the sacred music of the Church to be ‘boring’ are also those who don’t see the point in sacred silence during the Mass nor the apostolic tradition of the priest facing “ad orientem” during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Just my two-cents. 🙂

Adam
Are you kidding me? When I was a teenager classical music had no sacred feeling to me at all, and this is coming from a person who sang in his high school choir, one of the best in the state. I thought that classical musci was “pretty” but to me was entirely irrelevant. I saw those whose who wanted to force the body of christ to use it at mass as silly and stuck up. Just forcing us to think that God was some upper class stuck up old guy. It wasn’t unitl I was introduced to Christ through the life teen program that I developed a reverance for Christ. It was then I realized that he was the almighty and perfect God who descended to earth to die a painful and blood death for the sins of all. It was through the Life Teen program, that I came to realize that God deserves every bit of my being. I did not even think of Christ in that whole “buddy Christ” way.
Look, I agree that people need to realize that the mass is holy sacrifice and not fun time, but we need to make that apparent in the way that the teenagers can understand too. I think your conclusions are based on two faulty premises. First, you seem to believe that classical music and greagorian chant are INTRINSICALLY superior to contemporary music. That is simply absurd. They are nothing more than types of music from two different times in history. Second, you seem to think that every one is the same person and that the same way of bringing them to Christ will always work. That is also absurd. Each person is unique and unrepeatable. And if different kinds of music help different people enter into the mystery of Christ and the Mass, then so be it.
 
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palmas85:
Apparently you do not understand sarcasm. Sorry to have hit one over your head. I too do not believe that God is an old man with a beard. That is of course unless he decided to manifest himself in that form. And you may be surprised that I have read Summa Theoligica. One of the advantages or disadvantages of a Jesuit education. you know. And no, I am not a beginning student of theology, as anyone who has read my posts can easily tell. But I do have a hard set of core beliefs about the faith that have not as yet been twisted into something that does not resemble Catholicism or even Christianity of any form.

And simply put, not believing in an old fashioned vision of God the Father has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Life Teen is necessary or even desired. As to the music, I will take a pass on it. If the teens of today need the music that is played at Life Teen Masses to elevate their souls, then they have even bigger problems than we thought we did back in the late 60’s when all this nonsense started.

Oh and I did enjoy Summa Theologica quite a bit. The Imitation of Christ by Kempis was quite good as well. I never could really get into Saint Augustine though, probably a big loss on my part.
I guess that u didn’t get that I was also being sarcastic. And by the way, if the mass needs gregorian chant to be reverant then it is not what the Church claims the mass is. If the mass is not bigger than the type of music that is played, then our entire faith is in vain because it is centered around the mass. I personally have so much faith in the mystery of the presence of the sacrifice of Christ in the mass, I certainly don’t believe that “Life Teen music” can hurt that.
And by the way, you are not talking to some liberal and uneducated Catholic. I am a student of Thomas Aquinas, an amatuer philosopher, very traditional (i would attend the Tridentine mass if it was more readily available), and I hate the idea of faith based on emtions. But I do not deny the that emotions are good because they were created by God like so many of you ultra-traditionalists do.
 
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