Life Teen Mass

[JimB]

The mission of the music ministry is to enhance the prayer and praise of the mass, not to re-direct the focus or become a show in itself.

Yep. But what about the traditional choir that wears choir robes and makes a big show with old hymondy. We’ve got a life-teen Mass (who are very reverant), the adult choir (I gues I’m not an adult at 47) and my group in which I play guitar and also uses bass and light percussion. The One true Church is large enough for many diffenent worship styles.

Peace,
jim b

 

[Iohannes]

JimB:

Yep. But what about the traditional choir that wears choir robes and makes a big show with old hymondy. We’ve got a life-teen Mass (who are very reverant), the adult choir (I gues I’m not an adult at 47) and my group in which I play guitar and also uses bass and light percussion. The One true Church is large enough for many diffenent worship styles.

Peace,
jim b

That is why there is a choir loft.

 

[CatholicNerd]

JimB:

Yep. But what about the traditional choir that wears choir robes and makes a big show with old hymondy. We’ve got a life-teen Mass (who are very reverant), the adult choir (I gues I’m not an adult at 47) and my group in which I play guitar and also uses bass and light percussion. The One true Church is large enough for many diffenent worship styles.

Peace,
jim b

So vesting the musicians is now a sign of pomp? Are you going to say that priests who bother to wear the prescribed vestments are also making a show of their office? That deacons who actually wear the dalmatic again are making a show of it? That nuns make a show of their humble offices by wearing habits? While it is true that the vesture of musicians must not be the same as the vesture of the clergy, musicians have a right to appear uniform. Many of us come from different socio-economic stations, and sometimes our clothing reflects that. Vesting musicians makes us all equal. It’s a part of our office and the mindset that we need to have. And hey, at least with the robes we’re sure that folks are WEARING CLOTHES at Mass. Hehe. I think that the ideal vesture for liturgical musicians should be either the normative alb with a cincture or a cassock with cincture like the servers used to wear. Not sportsbras and boxer shorts…

 

[Exalt]

I really want Life Teen supporters to answer my question why having a Mass geared towards teens is problematic.

No more problematic than having a mass that reaches out to Spanish-speakers, or a mass that reaches out to those who prefer a latin mass.

The way I see it is Mass should be uniform no matter what church you go to, and it shouldn’t be “geared” toward any particular segments of society. But then again, I’d have no problems if they brought the Latin Mass back to the forefront, and I regularly attend a diocesan authorized and blessed Tridentine service church (well, as much as I can).

It just seems there should be one standard Mass, with deviation so far as what hymns will be provided. But I’m probably naive. My priest runs a young adults ministry and it seems to me to be popular and yet conservative at the same time.

Wait a minute, you said that mass should be uniform, and yet you go to a Tridentine service? I’m sort of confused there. So it’s okay that you feel more at home in a Tridentine service and they should have special, non-uniform masses for those who like that type of mass? But wait a minute, I, and many other teens, feel much more at home at a LifeTeen mass, also sanctioned and blessed by the diocese. How is LifeTeen any different? Furthermore, the core idea here is that teens come from a completely different culture than your particular adult culture.

I know it’s hard for you to understand, as an adult, but now that I’m moving out of my teenage years and into adulthood, I’m beginning to notice the vast differences, and why teens and adults rarely see eye-to-eye. We adapt certain things about mass, such as the music, for the Culture of the people we seek to serve. For example, we have a spanish mass here at my home parish. It is not only said in spanish, but we have a mariachi come and play. The culture is clearly different, and the way the mass is presented is slightly different. There is no difference with LifeTeen (or any youth mass). We aim to reach out to a culture, so we change the way mass is presented slightly. And it makes a world of difference.

(Post Continued in next post - because of character limitation)

 

[Exalt]

But before reading further (I hope I’ve kept your attention for this long ), consider this: we are loosing teens, fast. Only 3 out of 7 teens attend mass every sunday. Many teens feel that mass does not reach out to them, the music is not powerful, teenage lectors and extraordinary ministers of communion are not welcome, and the homily is dull and doesn’t communicate effectively to them. I know I felt that way. I felt absolutely no ownership, so to speak, over the mass.

In fact, the founder of Life Teen, Monsignor Dale of St. Tim’s in Mesa, Arizona, was inspired to create Lifeteen after a boy who was considering the preisthood left the church. The boy said “Father, I’ve been to mass every Sunday for 18 years, and not once did I feel loved. I don’t know what my new church teaches, but I know I feel loved.” Think about your parish. Are you reaching out only to those “beatified” youth, or are you reaching out to the teens who are “too cool” for mass, or simply feel unloved and unwanted. Are you reaching out to the teens on the baseball fields and in the high schools? Or are you only reaching out to those teens who are already going to mass on a regular basis.

Now, with that said, let me explain what goes into a LifeTeen mass every week. The Music Minister and the Youth Minister and the Presider for the mass get together every week and discuss the readings, and the homily. Together, they discuss what sort of homily would really reach the teenagers. They begin to put ideas together. Second, they come up with what songs will be in the mass. Regarding the music, it must be scriptural, inspirational, and singable. It also must be uplifting and powerful. After this, the music ministers practice and practice. Before every mass, the music ministers practice with the congregation, as well. The teen lectors are extremely well-trained, as well.

But I do need to regularly go to out-of-town Masses, and when I go into a church and see a garden planted where the tabernacle would be in my church, and I glance down and actually bend over to see if the “missing kneelers” are somewhere plastered under the pew in front of me (never imagining there’d be a church with no kneelers), or I walk in a church with young people dressed like they’re at a rock concert (whoa, they sort of were), then I have to wonder?

Churchs without kneelers get authorization from the Bishop when the Church was constructed, by the way.

 

[system]

Exalt:

No more problematic than having a mass that reaches out to Spanish-speakers

(May I ignore the Tridentine issue? Because LifeTeen is “everywhere”, and I think most Catholics don’t even know the Tridentine exists and relatively speaking it is a non-factor.)

Through LifeTeen you have been taught many things that would have been laughed at only a generation ago. There is some good in parts of it, but not enough to justify all the truly incorrect things.

Regarding languages. There is an important distinction to make between masses in different languages for simple understanding… and LifeTeen which exists to make one age group feel special. Have you ever seen a Mass tailored for housewives? Retired folks? Single adults age 30-39? No - teens are the only ones to get this special treatment. And only since the mid 1980’s.

teens and adults rarely see eye-to-eye. We adapt certain things about mass, such as the music, for the Culture of the people we seek to serve.

But this belief of an entitlement to “adapt certain things about the mass” is a very recent development. Life Teen promotes adaptations to the mass that are simply wrong. (Not because they are teen-oriented, but because ALL tinkering with the Mass is wrong.)

But before reading further, consider this: we are loosing teens, fast. Only 3 out of 7 teens attend mass every sunday. Many teens feel that mass does not reach out to them, the music is not powerful, teenage lectors and extraordinary ministers of communion are not welcome, and the homily is dull and doesn’t communicate effectively to them. I know I felt that way. I felt absolutely no ownership, so to speak, over the mass.

But the Mass is not yours to “own”. It is no one’s obligation to “reach out” to you, indeed it really works in reverse. This used to be part of basic education, but since the 1980’s we’ve forgotten it, and stopped teaching the important fundamentals. I think it is indeed a testimony to the effectiveness of Life Teen - style “education”, that so many teens fall away.

What happens when teens “graduate” from Life Teen? Teens that were never really educated about what the Faith really is, that developed this incorrect “entitlement mentality” (that the Church exists “for them” instead of the other way round). In many parts of the country, “young adult” ministry is the next carrot dangled in front of these people. What comes next?

LifeTeen has incorrectly educated an entire generation of young Catholics, and I really worry about what’s going to happen in the next generation or two.

 

[Iohannes]

Since no one has figure out the problem of LifeTeen, I will briefly tell it.

-Bringing worldly(rock and roll) things into Mass is not a good idea.
-The Mass is the Holy Sacrifice of Calvary, thus it is inapprioritate to have a mass specificially to make Teens feel “comfortable”
-How does Rock and Roll help convey the Sacrifice of Calvary?

 

[Exalt]

Well, this is no good at all. I accidently hit the back button, and guess what, it erased everything. Wonderful, isn’t it? Well, here goes try number two.

(May I ignore the Tridentine issue? Because LifeTeen is “everywhere”, and I think most Catholics don’t even know the Tridentine exists and relatively speaking it is a non-factor.)

I think it is very important that you address the Trindentine issue. If you think that most catholics don’t understand it, educate them! Maybe more people will like it than you think. I, personally, would love to go to a Tridentine mass sometime. I wonder where there is one in Austin. Do you know?

Through LifeTeen you have been taught many things that would have been laughed at only a generation ago.There is some good in parts of it, but not enough to justify all the truly incorrect things.

Ooo! Good things! Tell me about some of the good things in LifeTeen. And tell me specifically what sort of things “would have been laughed at only a generation ago.”

(Post Continued below because of character requirements)

 

[Exalt]

Regarding languages. There is an important distinction to make between masses in different languages for simple understanding… and LifeTeen which exists to make one age group feel special. Have you ever seen a Mass tailored for housewives? Retired folks? Single adults age 30-39? No - teens are the only ones to get this special treatment. And only since the mid 1980’s.

But this belief of an entitlement to “adapt certain things about the mass” is a very recent development. Life Teen promotes adaptations to the mass that are simply wrong. (Not because they are teen-oriented, but because ALL tinkering with the Mass is wrong.)

And I qoute from the GIRM: “pastoral effectiveness of a celebration will be heightened if the texts of the readings, prayers, and songs correspond as closely as possible to the needs, religious dispositions, and aptitude of the participants” (GIRM no. 313).

And I also quote from the USCB document Renewing the Vision: A Framework for Catholic Youth Ministry: “The ministry of prayer and worship with adolescents has several distinct dimensions that provide direction to comprehensive ministry efforts. Specifically, the ministry of prayer and worship … (1) promotes the authentic participation of youth in liturgy, … (2) attends to the diversity of cultures and ages in the assembly, … (3) provides opportunities for creative prayer with adolescents in peer, family, and intergenerational settings, … (4) promotes effective preaching of the word, … (5) allows music and song to express the vitality of young people, … (6) prepares the symbols and ritual actions with particular care for their visual dimensions, … (7) develops the interpersonal and communal dimensions of the liturgy, … (8) provides adolescents with effective and intentional catechesis for liturgy, worship, and sacraments, … (9) apprentices adolescents in liturgical ministries.”

So, clearly, the Bishops of the United States advocate liturgy that invites youth in and sings with them!

(Post continued below because of character requirements)

 

[Exalt]

But the Mass is not yours to “own”. It is no one’s obligation to “reach out” to you, indeed it really works in reverse. This used to be part of basic education, but since the 1980’s we’ve forgotten it, and stopped teaching the important fundamentals. I think it is indeed a testimony to the effectiveness of Life Teen - style “education”, that so many teens fall away.

Hold on here. Let’s establish some fundamentals here, because I think both of our hearts are in the right place. Jesus wants us to find that lost sheep and bring him home. However, as opposed to 1% lost sheep, there are 70% lost sheep! Indeed:

“Peter, do you love me?” “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” “Then feed my lambs”

We have an obligation to protect and feed our children. They are looking for Love in all the wrong places. We need to show them that we, the Church, love them. We need to make them feel loved as a part of One family. We need to show them the source of all Love, God, particularly in the Eucharist and in the other sacraments. Do you not agree?

We absolutely need good catechesis, liturgy that includes them and makes them feel welcome, and worship that allows them to pray as a communion. We aboslutely need good relational ministry. We need people that have dedicated thier lives to helping Young People and leading them Closer to Christ. Do you not agree?

I invite you to talk to the teens in your parish about how they feel about the Church. What are their opinions? How do they feel thier needs are being bet? How many teens are being served? LifeTeen is just one program. What about other youth ministry programs, how do you feel about them?

What happens when teens “graduate” from Life Teen?

Because every person is different all have free will, it is different for each teen. Youth ministry plants seeds. Some fall on firtle ground, other on rocky ground, etc.

(Post continued below becaue of space requirements)

 

[Exalt]

Teens that were never really educated about what the Faith really is, that developed this incorrect “entitlement mentality” (that the Church exists “for them” instead of the other way round). In many parts of the country, “young adult” ministry is the next carrot dangled in front of these people. What comes next?

Look to the Apostles! After they were filled by the spirit, they were called to spread that spirit to others. Such is the call for all who accept Jesus into their life. What comes next? Ministry. Sharing your gifts; discovering and accepting your vocation, whatever it may be.

LifeTeen has incorrectly educated an entire generation of young Catholics, and I really worry about what’s going to happen in the next generation or two.

Wha? I don’t understand the basis for this comment. As I, and countless others have said, the education of young people in the faith is superb. It does not just tell the youth what the church believes, but it explains it in such a way that it allows the youth to believe it and make the neccessary changes to thier lives. Truly amazing ministry.

Phew!! Tht was a long post! It’s 2:24 AM right now, I am going to bed now thanks for getting through it!

 

[JNB]

About USCCB documents, unless they are approved by 2/3 + 1 of the Bishops, and then approved by the Vatican, it is best to ignore them, since they have no mandate what so ever. A waste of paper. GIRM trumps anything what the USCCB has to say.

 

[pnewton]

-How does Rock and Roll help convey the Sacrifice of Calvary?

It doesn’t. The priest in the life teen Mass does. I am not a big fan of this style of Mass. However, if the specifics of the GIRM are followed, I do not see making a large issue of the music as many here do.

It is as appropriate to gear a Mass to reach young people as it is to gear a Mass for an older crowd (as we do) or for those who prefer the Tridentine Mass. I really believe the Church is universal.

Young peolpe who attend these Masses, however, should be diverse in attending the other Masses, including the Latin Mass when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Exalt]

JNB:

About USCCB documents, unless they are approved by 2/3 + 1 of the Bishops, and then approved by the Vatican, it is best to ignore them, since they have no mandate what so ever. A waste of paper. GIRM trumps anything what the USCCB has to say.

The GIRM does not contradict “Renewing the Vision.” Furthermore, by that statement, you seem to say that “I, JNB, know better than the conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States of America on the ministry to Adolescents.” Certainly, this is not what you mean, correct?

I am curious. If the Bishops are wrong about the ministry to Adolescents, what would you suggest in it’s place?

“This is what is needed: a Church for young people, which will know how to speak to their heart and enkindle, comfort, and inspire enthusiasm in it with the joy of the Gospel and the strength of the Eucharist; a Church which will know how to invite and to welcome the person who seeks a purpose for which to commit his whole existence; a Church which is not afraid to require much, after having given much; which does not fear asking from young people the effort of a noble and authentic adventure, such as that of the following of the Gospel” (John Paul II, 1995 World Day of Prayer for Vocations).

It doesn’t. The priest in the life teen Mass does. I am not a big fan of this style of Mass. However, if the specifics of the GIRM are followed, I do not see making a large issue of the music as many here do.

It is as appropriate to gear a Mass to reach young people as it is to gear a Mass for an older crowd (as we do) or for those who prefer the Tridentine Mass. I really believe the Church is universal.

Young peolpe who attend these Masses, however, should be diverse in attending the other Masses, including the Latin Mass when the opportunity presents itself.

Awesome, I like this position. Very well balanced.

 

[joegrabowski]

I’m a seminarian and many of my peers have come from the Life Teen background. We debate very often on liturgical propriety and ideals, but sometimes it occurs to me that polarization is really the biggest problem that arises in dealing with these issues. Liturgical abuses aside (because they really are a seperate issue, and can occur in various forms in any context), I find it troublesome that the norm at most parishes nowadays is having particular Masses cater to one demographic specifically. There is a lack of universality, it seems, when individuals in a parish feel “out of place” walking into a given weekend Mass because of its particular “special interest group.” I used to think that this problem could be solved if people were mature and a little indulgent of, say, musical styles that are not their cup of tea. But the more I experience of these somewhat radical worship movements (whether they’re traditional or progressive) the more I worry that the liturgy is becoming politicized. As a Church, we ought to be seeking a universal and accessible standard of worship that doesn’t stand the chance of disenfranchizing one or another demographic in the parish (taking for granted that it is accompianied by good instruction and implimentation, or course).

I’m not discrediting any one given movement, whether it be traditional or youth-oriented, or whatever. But the modern “liturgy movement” applies styles and concepts as a first step, when changes really ought to come out of fresh catechesis and a deepened appreciation for liturgy. Making the liturgy more “edgy” or what have you, as a goal to evangelize or teach, is not the way that Cardinal Ratzinger and others have spoken of liturgical reform. Rather, better catechesis and dialogue about the liturgy should lead to an expression in various worship forms and styles, which will inevitably produce more universal norms because representing a melting pot of ideas. Evangelization and catechesis have other fora more appropriate than Liturgical worship for such dynamic and sometimes turbulent efforts. The current trend of dragging people to different liturgical showpieces, running the gammit from ultra-conservative to “clown” masses, and using the Mass as some sort of theological billboard is troublesome, and can lead to further division. Whether it’s Life Teen or any other liturgical movement, I think it’s good to stop and observe once in a while how much real progress potential there is for finding a universal standard that fulfills the ends of liturgy - to glorify God and sanctify us - rather than merely expressing the ideas of a given subculture in Church society.

 

[system]

Going to try to combine everything back into one post…

Exalt:

I think it is very important that you address the Trindentine issue.

Almost every parish has a Life Teen, but only one or two in a diocese might have a Tridentine mass. So there isn’t any real connection, no reason to discuss them together.

Tell me about some of the good things in LifeTeen. And tell me specifically what sort of things “would have been laughed at only a generation ago.”

I’m sure that some parishes have good educational programs. (But they probably don’t need Life Teen to do so.) However many use Life Teen for “movie night” or “fellowship” or “keeping kids safe” which is missing the boat. What would have been laughed at 20 years ago? The Life Teen Mass - the premise behind it, and the implementations of it that I have seen.

Restating: The Mass is not yours to “own”. It is no one’s obligation to “reach out” to you, indeed it really works in reverse. This used to be part of basic education … What I mean here, is that the oft-heard complaints “Mass doesn’t reach out to me… the homilies are boring to me… the music doesn’t inspire me” should NOT be used as justification to change the Mass. Instead these are signs of a poor education. Notice that the common theme is “me, me, me”. We have an obligation to attend Mass and worship God - the Church (the Mass) has no obligation to “entertain” you, to keep your interest. If you fall away, that’s your problem and you need to correct your behavior, fix your faulty education.

We absolutely need good catechesis, liturgy that includes them and makes them feel welcome

But understand that a proper education should rid you of this need to “feel welcome”. That’s just not what it’s all about. You are “included” in the Mass by simply being there. Instead, Life Teen insists that teens do things they really shouldn’t be, and calling that “participation”. Wrong.

And again, my big concern is the whole “teens are special” mentality. Teens are NOT special. By allowing them to think that they are, many parishes have created a problem, which they now try to address through “young adult ministry” - many of those just continue the “movie night” social atmosphere that Life Teen had. Is this really such a bad thing? Well, if a lack of “movie night” is sufficient for young adults to leave the Church, then yes, Life Teen is a horrible failure in that respect.

“LifeTeen has incorrectly educated an entire generation of young Catholics, and I really worry about what’s going to happen in the next generation or two.” - here I mean that if children raised in the “Life Teen mindset” become parish leaders, I don’t think I’ll like it.

 

[system]

joegrabowski:

I find it troublesome that the norm at most parishes nowadays is having particular Masses cater to one demographic specifically. There is a lack of universality, it seems, when individuals in a parish feel “out of place” walking into a given weekend Mass because of its particular “special interest group.” … As a Church, we ought to be seeking a universal and accessible standard of worship that doesn’t stand the chance of disenfranchizing one or another demographic in the parish

Joey, this is exactly my concern. In my opinion, prior to the mid or late 1980’s things were much more uniform. (Unfortunately I don’t think education was any better then.)
I hope your coming generation of priests can figure out how to fix this problem.

 

[YinYangMom]

Well, I have a 16 and a 14 year old…both of which avoid any ‘teen themed’ church function like the plague. They have protestant friends who are active in youth activities at their churches and my kids will even attend some of ‘their’ functions when invited.

I thought perhaps the teen slant would be a good way to wean them off the ‘kiddie’ version of learning about Catholicism to get them on the path to critical thinking about the Church by reaching them on ‘their’ level. They’re supposed to be thinking about confirmation soon, so I’d look for retreats and special masses - even that Dead Theologian’s Society thing our parish/diocese offers. But when I ask them if they’d like me to enroll them they flat out say “No way!”

I was surprised, to say the least, because hubby and I have never ‘poo poo’d’ the youth movement in the church, so we asked them what their objections were. Bottom line was the more they attended their protestant friends’ events and their protestant cousins’ events, the more they appreciated the solemnity of the Catholic traditional Mass. They like the more ‘sacred’ music as an enhancement to the different segments of the Mass. They love the organ before and after Mass. They cringe when the youth or adult choir throws in a more ‘hip’ version of a traditional song. It’s seems they equate Protestantism with ‘fun with Christ’ but Catholicism with ‘respect for Christ’.

Personally, I’m glad the the Church offers variety when called for. It shows a respect for the community they represent. The Mass itself will always be consistent…the music, the decorations, the clothes…those are ‘extras’, to me. When I moved across country I remember visiting four different Catholic churches…attending different services for each…to get a feel for the make up of the congregation. We found one or two which felt like ‘home’ to us so we’ve been there ever since. Not that there was anything ‘wrong’ with the other congregations…just not representative of who we were, I guess, and personal taste in music, ambiance, etc. I’m very grateful that Catholic churches can reflect the communities they serve.

 

[Exalt]

Melman, I would like you to address, specifically, this question: If you had it your way, what would be your vision of youth ministry? (That is what I was trying to ask by my long post last night.)

There are many good points with your statement. I am curious, however, as to what you believe Youth Ministry should be like, if you had it your way.

 

[Exalt]

Wow, interesting. What sort of Catechesis are they recieving?

A bit of insight into my life: When I was 14, I, too, avioded teen themed church functions like the plague, for the same general feelings. However, when the time came when I was given a very difficult situation to deal with, I lacked the catechesis that I would have recieved by the youth ministry program. I lost faith in God, even, and it took a great deal of time to turn back to Him - and when I did, it was through the “teen-themed” catechesis.

YinYangMom:

Well, I have a 16 and a 14 year old…both of which avoid any ‘teen themed’ church function like the plague. They have protestant friends who are active in youth activities at their churches and my kids will even attend some of ‘their’ functions when invited.

I thought perhaps the teen slant would be a good way to wean them off the ‘kiddie’ version of learning about Catholicism to get them on the path to critical thinking about the Church by reaching them on ‘their’ level. They’re supposed to be thinking about confirmation soon, so I’d look for retreats and special masses - even that Dead Theologian’s Society thing our parish/diocese offers. But when I ask them if they’d like me to enroll them they flat out say “No way!”

I was surprised, to say the least, because hubby and I have never ‘poo poo’d’ the youth movement in the church, so we asked them what their objections were. Bottom line was the more they attended their protestant friends’ events and their protestant cousins’ events, the more they appreciated the solemnity of the Catholic traditional Mass. They like the more ‘sacred’ music as an enhancement to the different segments of the Mass. They love the organ before and after Mass. They cringe when the youth or adult choir throws in a more ‘hip’ version of a traditional song. It’s seems they equate Protestantism with ‘fun with Christ’ but Catholicism with ‘respect for Christ’.

Personally, I’m glad the the Church offers variety when called for. It shows a respect for the community they represent. The Mass itself will always be consistent…the music, the decorations, the clothes…those are ‘extras’, to me. When I moved across country I remember visiting four different Catholic churches…attending different services for each…to get a feel for the make up of the congregation. We found one or two which felt like ‘home’ to us so we’ve been there ever since. Not that there was anything ‘wrong’ with the other congregations…just not representative of who we were, I guess, and personal taste in music, ambiance, etc. I’m very grateful that Catholic churches can reflect the communities they serve.