Life Teen Mass

[pnewton]

Sometimes we underestimate young people (and sometimes they overestimate themselves). My 16 year old daughter is a new convert (Easter '04) and will occasionally attend a teen life Mass at another church. While she enjoys the people, she is uncomfortable with some parts of the Mass. She is going on a retreat to Steubenville South this week with them and asked me to print her a copy of Redeptionis Sacramentum to use as a reference. At 16 she may not know everything, but timidity has never been a problem for her.

 

[YinYangMom]

Exalt:

Wow, interesting. What sort of Catechesis are they recieving?

A bit of insight into my life: When I was 14, I, too, avioded teen themed church functions like the plague, for the same general feelings. However, when the time came when I was given a very difficult situation to deal with, I lacked the catechesis that I would have recieved by the youth ministry program. I lost faith in God, even, and it took a great deal of time to turn back to Him - and when I did, it was through the “teen-themed” catechesis.

Well, they’re getting the direct approach, I guess one could say
I had them enrolled in CCD for a couple of years and they didn’t like that either. They saw it as the same things taught over and over again, each year, with just a slightly different angle, and they wanted something ‘deeper’, not as childish, in their minds.

I think that came from hubby and I talking to them about the ‘whys’ of proper behavior as being part of Church teaching…referencing other saints, the Pope and the Catechism books. By referring to those things, when they got to class and none of that was being talked about directly, the way we spoke to them about it, I guess they lost interest in that approach.

So we’ve been attending lecture series the church offers, watching Bishop Sheen on EWTN and other shows and when a question comes up we’ve been pulling out the Catechism to find the answer.

I wish they’d be more open to associating with the other teens in our parish but we have that problem of the us vs them thing going on…most of the kids attend catholic school so they have their own ‘clicks’ at any church function…and the ones in the youth group who go to public school with my kids, well…they are they’re own ‘click’ as well, since my kids don’t hang out with these kids at school, the lines don’t dissolve just because they’re at a church function. It’s easier for my daughter because she’s more outgoing than my son…but for my son, he says the kids his age are only there because their parents make them go…they aren’t really into learning more about the faith so he feels it’s a waste of his time to go to the events. I think he could be wrong since he doesn’t attend, though, you know?? But he did attend some in middle school - they weren’t a good experience then and since it’s the same kids at the high school level he assumes they haven’t changed. I’m working on getting him to give them a chance, because it’s quite possible they have started asking the 'real questions now

Any suggestions on how I could go about encouraging them to be more receptive to these type of opportunities???

 

[Exalt]

Any suggestions on how I could go about encouraging them to be more receptive to these type of opportunities???

Well, it’s very very tricky. I was forced to go to youth group, myself, the first time. However, I was one of those kids (INTJ kiersy letters here, by the way) who wanted to do alot of things, but simply lacked the courage to do so. What it took for me was someone ‘forcing’ me to do something I actually wanted to do, but would never admit it. If this is the case with your son, perhaps that would be the way to go?

In reality, he has free will, and it’s ultimately up to him. Keep in touch with your youth minister, and never stop recommending that your son go to these fuctions.

Developing good, catholic relationships is critical to the growing up of a young person. That’s partly why socials are so important to Youth Ministry.

 

[faustina22]

I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to jump in here and paste an earlier post of mine,from a related forum. I repeat to those of you who are debating what is ‘more’ Catholic: LOOK AT THE FRUIT! In our diocese at least LT has yielded vocations and reverence from teens:

Here’s the repost:
In our diocese, the Bishop has asked that the altar gathering stop, and that is great b/c is is abusive, but in the years that LT has been in our diocese, we’ve seen SEVERAL vocations come out of that church. I say to everyone, “Look at the fruit.” Here at least, its been good fruit.

In addition, our teens are MUCH more reverent at the Eucharist and coming in and out of Mass, than the ADULTS I see there. I think they are better catechized as well, because of the LifeNights afterwards, and the orthodox teaching they receive there. This is my humble opinion as a former protestant who is now Catholic. I see these kids alot at daily mass, on their own or in groups, not even accompanied by a parent.

As for LT’s efficacy, I have to ask what about the myriad number of Catholic teens who are evangelized right out of the Church by well-meaning protestant youth ministries who happen to have those whistles and bells that the teenager seems to need at that time in his life? I have to think that LT is stemming that tide a bit, by allowing the teen to differentiate himself from his parents while still remaining in the one true Church.

And by the way, although I believe in anyone’s right to hear a reverent Latin mass, I think many more Catholics would COME ALIVE in their faith, if they were allowed to experience a true charismatic mass, like the one’s at Franciscan University in Steubenville. Why take the joy and community out of sharing in the Body and Blood of our Saviour? The first Christians were known by their joy, which is of the Holy Spirit. I think some hyper-liturgical Catholics are dealing with the spirit of false religion, and possibly pride, which isn’t of the Holy Spirit. At least in our diocese, the parish which has the approved Latin mass is full of seemingly unfriendly, unhappy, dour people that do little to further their cause of seeing their kind perpetuate. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole, and I used to attend there, looking for ‘reverence.’ It just screams out to me of the prideful legalistic mindset I saw growing up in my former brand of protestantism. This is not to say all Latin mass attendees are legalistic prideful dour people. I just haven’t personally met one yet who isn’t.

Bottom line is that the Catholic church is UNIVERSAL, and everyone has a place. If you don’t like LT and you prefer another sort of approved mass, then go there.

 

[JNB]

Faustina, I am sorry about your experiences at the Latin mass, but mind you, I have had been to a parish that is “progressive” and have had bad experiences there.

My take on life teen, like the charismatic movment, it is by church standards a flash in the pan, it burns bright for a while then burns out, much like the charismatic movment in the US has in the last few years. No matter how orthodox the theology might be at a lifeteen mass, it is still in terms of externals in how the mass is celebrated the equivlent of liturgical cotton candy, great on style, lacking in substance, and in a few years, it too will burn out.

Also, it is amazing how often people mis use examples of early Christians when they try to make a point, while their examples were in error. The mass of the eraly Christians was not a party, while it was joyful, it was solem, the early Christians sacraficed much, being in the catacombs, with little more than their faith to pull them though a evil world bent on destroying them.

False religion on being hyper liturgical? Sorry, we just want traditionas of the church to be maintained, and t he externals of the liturgy to have substance of the mass being a sacrafice, not a joyful gathering of the communiy.

Faith is easy to have when things are going great, but does the life teen movment give these teens teh tools later in life when so much can and will be taken from them, when their crosses to bear become heavier by the day, when it seems that God has abandoned them? Does a “joyful” gathering of community give them that, or will they be lost because they get the idea that faith is more of a feeling that a matter of will, a matter of grace from God, a matter of being on a solid theological foundation?

 

[jp2fan]

faustina22:

. I think some hyper-liturgical Catholics are dealing with the spirit of false religion, and possibly pride, which isn’t of the Holy Spirit. At least in our diocese, the parish which has the approved Latin mass is full of seemingly unfriendly, unhappy, dour people that do little to further their cause of seeing their kind perpetuate. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole, and I used to attend there, looking for ‘reverence.’ It just screams out to me of the prideful legalistic mindset I saw growing up in my former brand of protestantism. This is not to say all Latin mass attendees are legalistic prideful dour people. I just haven’t personally met one yet who isn’t.
\

AMEN

faustina22:

t he externals of the liturgy to have substance of the mass being a sacrafice, not a joyful gathering of the communiy. \

Why can’t it be both? Regardless of what you say, it was both for the early Christians, and according to the Catechism, it still is today.

jp2fan

 

[jp2fan]

oops, the second quote was from jnb

 

[faustina22]

Points taken, JNB. Except if they end up leaving the Catholic church because ‘the mass is boring’ who knows what heresy they’ll end up in. I think I’d prefer cotton candy to protestant heresy.

 

[JNB]

Giving people cotton candy for liturgy oftenm leads people to heresy and out of the faith. Mr. Keating himself raised some objections similar to mine in another thread about Life Teen masses. A mass that has the externals of its sacrafical and sacramental nature stripped from it often is little different than an Evangelical gathering to people that hqave a lack of theological understanding.

I stand by what I have said, like folk mass and Charismatic mass, life teen masses too will pass into history as it lacks substance to sustain itself, and often to sustain who were in that enviroment when they will face their own dark night of the soul.

 

[Exalt]

Giving people cotton candy for liturgy oftenm leads people to heresy and out of the faith. Mr. Keating himself raised some objections similar to mine in another thread about Life Teen masses. A mass that has the externals of its sacrafical and sacramental nature stripped from it often is little different than an Evangelical gathering to people that hqave a lack of theological understanding.

I stand by what I have said, like folk mass and Charismatic mass, life teen masses too will pass into history as it lacks substance to sustain itself, and often to sustain who were in that enviroment when they will face their own dark night of the soul.

Misunderstanding #1: A mass is a mass is a mass. The Eucharist is there. That’s the focus of every single mass. Period. To say that a normal Life Teen mass strips the mass of it’s “sacrafical and sacramental nature” is to say that we deny the very “source and summit” of our faith. If you had actually talked to some teens at a Life Night or talk to a youth minister, you would realize the love that we have for the Mass and the Eucharist, no matter what sort of music goes with it.

Misunderstanding #2: Right, LifeTeen will pass, most likely, as the need for it dwindles. In the 1980’s, the need existed for a better Youth Catechesis program. Once parishes have woken up to this need and are supplying it by themselves, the branded “Life Teen” will most likely pass. The availability of resources, et cetera, will be avialable for a long time to come. Just becuase this will happen in the future doesn’t mean it isn’t a good thing now.

Misunderstanding #3: “life teen masses … lack substance to sustain itself, and often to sustain who were in that enviroment when they will face their own dark night of the soul” To say that the majority of Youth in the program are not catechized with the proper faith substance to face those hard times is a misinformed and unfair statement. The LifeTeen program supports amazing catechesis. It’s core to the LifeTeen progam (The Big Three are Liturgy, Life Nights, and Relational Ministry). Life Nights are there to catechize the youth, essentially. The program is excellent. Also, within the Life Teen program, frequently teens cry out for Bible studies and apologetics, which Youth Ministers supply. Furthermore, you fail to recognize that many teens face their “own dark night of the soul” right in High School. Some face deeper and darker nights than you have ever had. I’ve seen them. I’ve had one or two myself. LifeTeen opens the door for helping these teens, and catechizes them properly so they cannot “forget the faith.” If your teenage son decided he didn’t want to believe in God, or had some other crisis of faith, would you rather have a youth program that has other teens and young adults who can identify with him and relate to him, or would you rather have a vacant class-room style catechesis?

 

[Exalt]

Again, I ask the question: If you had to choose what sort of Catechesis these teens recieve, how would you construct your youth program?

I have yet to hear an answer to this question.

 

[JNB]

Exalt, note I said the externals, not the internals of sacrafice are stripped from the mass, I am not in any way, shape or form denying that even a Life Teen mass is invalid.

Also saying that high school students have darker nights than I ever had, sorry, while I will be the first to say high school is a tough enviroment, it also is an enviroment where one is still not on their own, dealing with their own job losses, doubts and crosses in a personal manner, being alone with nothing but ones theological background, and the grace of God to give them help.

As for cathechisis, I would say stick with the basics. Do not insult the intelligence of youth. Have youth/young adult groups by all means such as my parish has, but given them solid food, not cotton canday, and by no means introduce these elements into the mass itself. Do not dress up the mass, make it crystal clear tyhe mass is a sacrafice, not a concert, not a youth get together. As I said, my parish, being about as traditional as one could get outside of having the mass in Latin, does quite well with its youth group.

 

[Exalt]

Exalt, note I said the externals, not the internals of sacrafice are stripped from the mass, I am not in any way, shape or form denying that even a Life Teen mass is invalid.

I know you didn’t mean that the Life Teen mass was invalid, only that the teens do not recognize the Eucharist as the Body of Christ.

Also saying that high school students have darker nights than I ever had, sorry, while I will be the first to say high school is a tough enviroment, it also is an enviroment where one is still not on their own, dealing with their own job losses, doubts and crosses in a personal manner, being alone with nothing but ones theological background, and the grace of God to give them help.

Let’s not get into a debate about “dark nights of the soul.”

As for cathechisis, I would say stick with the basics. Do not insult the intelligence of youth. Have youth/young adult groups by all means such as my parish has, but given them solid food, not cotton canday, and by no means introduce these elements into the mass itself. Do not dress up the mass, make it crystal clear tyhe mass is a sacrafice, not a concert, not a youth get together. As I said, my parish, being about as traditional as one could get outside of having the mass in Latin, does quite well with its youth group.

That’s awesome! I’m glad you have a good youth program. Catechesis and getting good catholic friendships is core to a teens’ spiritual development. How many youth come to the program every week, though? How large is your parish in relation to the size of this group?

 

[James0235]

JNB:

As for cathechisis, I would say stick with the basics. Do not insult the intelligence of youth. Have youth/young adult groups by all means such as my parish has, but given them solid food, not cotton canday, and by no means introduce these elements into the mass itself. Do not dress up the mass, make it crystal clear tyhe mass is a sacrafice, not a concert, not a youth get together. As I said, my parish, being about as traditional as one could get outside of having the mass in Latin, does quite well with its youth group.

I agree with you that it must be clear that the mass is a sacrifice. And contrary to what alot of people here seem to think LT does this much better than the average parish.

(In supporting Life Teen I don’t do it from the perspective of one who loves, or even particularly cares for the Life Teen Mass. I MUCH prefer the TLM personally. I have been very careful in making sure the LT program I volunteer with is orthodox. I see alot of good coming from it.)

Catechesis cannot be done the same way in every parish. Sometimes it must be dressed up a bit, I believe. The youth group in your parish is MUCH different than the majority of youth groups in the diocese and I suspect most dioceses. A very traditonal parish is also a parish where the parents tend to instruct their own children in the faith. Not so in most other parishes. I know teens from Catholic families who do not know the most basic Catholic prayers. It’s why I stopped teaching CCD. Too frustrating teaching 8th grade confirmation candidates the Our Father and Hail Mary. Life Teen is incredibly good at presenting the faith in an entertaining way (after Mass) without watering down the faith one bit. It draws teens in and they hunger for more. We then invite them back to do indepth Bible studies or study the lives of the Saints during the week.

Life Teen will eventually pass away. But for the time being I think it is much needed.

James

 

[JNB]

I do not know how many youth come to the program, since kmy parish is non territorial, but my parish, while not that large, about 1500 parishoners is sending 38 of its teens to a youth conference in a few days.

The way to reach teens and make a lasting impact is DO NOT use gimmicks. Do not try to lure them into a seperate mass using Christian-Rock music. Respect their intelligence, respect their desire for reverence, and for tradition.

I am sure some Life Teen programs are better than others, but again, like other Gimmicks the church has tried in the last 35 years, the liturgical portion of Life Teen will fade away since again for the very fact it is a gimmick, a gimmick that tried to seprate teens into their own group createing an enviroment that can not and will not be replicated when they become adults.

 

[James0235]

JNB:

I do not know how many youth come to the program, since kmy parish is non territorial, but my parish, while not that large, about 1500 parishoners is sending 38 of its teens to a youth conference in a few days.

I was aware of that. At least one of those teens is from my parish. But, the difference between her and the majority of the other teens is that her family teaches her the faith.

JNB:

The way to reach teens and make a lasting impact is DO NOT use gimmicks. Do not try to lure them into a seperate mass using Christian-Rock music. Respect their intelligence, respect their desire for reverence, and for tradition.

The music is often very contemporary but i would hardly call it Rock music.

Most teens do not have a desire for reverence or for tradition becasue they have no experience of reverence or traditon. After they decide to begin attending Mass then we can begin to instruct them on tradition and they do cultivate a love for it.

And yes I did say begin attending Mass. One of the reasons my parish began investigatin LT a few yrs ago was the fact that out of 600+ teens in the parish only about a dozen or so were attending Mass. Since LT began it is much more common to see them at all of the parish Masses - including evening Masses during Lent and I am told daily Mass in the summer.

JNB:

I am sure some Life Teen programs are better than others, but again, like other Gimmicks the church has tried in the last 35 years, the liturgical portion of Life Teen will fade away since again for the very fact it is a gimmick, a gimmick that tried to seprate teens into their own group createing an enviroment that can not and will not be replicated when they become adults.

Despite the name it does not separate teens into their own group in the Mass. They come to Mass but a large number of teens come with their families.

I agree that Life Teen will fade away but not because it is gimmiky but becasue their will come a time when the majority of teens will be catechized by their families.

James

 

[JNB]

James, I suspect you know the parish I attend, and you points are quite valid. I didnt even know my faith untill my mid 20s, I remeber going to Sunday School after mass before first communion and all I really rember from it was lite rock and folk songs they played in those classes. My fear about life teen is it may be more show and little substance, especially if it creeps into the liturgy.

LIke RCIA, I assume Life Teen is as good as the people running it, and again my main concern is the potential for abuse during mass, and I just am concerfned that mass for some may be more of a show than a sacrafice. I know there is the issue of how do we get from here to there, and I know that teens that know next to nothing about their faith would not jump into a TLM or even reverent NO right away, but in your opinion,m how well does life teen prepqare teens for the time they are on their own and how to maintain their faith?

 

[Exalt]

LIke RCIA, I assume Life Teen is as good as the people running it, and again my main concern is the potential for abuse during mass, and I just am concerfned that mass for some may be more of a show than a sacrafice. I know there is the issue of how do we get from here to there, and I know that teens that know next to nothing about their faith would not jump into a TLM or even reverent NO right away, but in your opinion,m how well does life teen prepqare teens for the time they are on their own and how to maintain their faith?

Absolutely, those are good concerns to have. How well does life teen prepare teens for when they are adults… Well, let’s go through all the things a good LifeTeen program offers and we’ll see:

1. Regular Sunday Night LifeNights which include (1) Basic Catechesis on topics from proofs of the existance of God, to Objective Truth, to the Saints, to abortion, the ten commandments, et cetera. (2) Social time and community building - building solid catholic friendships. (3) community prayer and worship.
2. Advanced Catechesis outside of LifeNights which include in depth study of the bible or apologetics without the skits and set up, et cetera. I’ve seen groups get deep into Aquanius, Agustine, Church Fathers, et cetera.
3. Group Adoration (XLT) - time from Group Prayer and Praise and Worship in the prescence of the Eucharist. Includes, usually, a personal testimony about some subject of fatih
4. Social events - Softball, perhaps, bowling, et cetera, to “rope in” those youth that are attracted to sports or social gathering. (More than one seminarian or youth minister that I have talked to has stories of orignially being attracted to The Church through one of these social events) Supplies opportunities for good catholic relationships.
5. Leadership opportunities - Opening the door for teens to help out at the Liturgy, music ministry, Middle School ministry, Retreat ministry (my specialty), et cetera.
6. Retreat and conference experiances that incorporate all of these elements in an enviornment away from the busy tedium of daily life (or troubling lives that these teens may have). Great time for personal conversion experiances, especially, although they have still happened at LT mass or Life nights.

Do you think that this vision of Youth ministry supplies them with the tools and inspiration to go and not only live “catholic” lives, but evangelize? I think that LT does a great job of supplying these tools. It’s up to the youth, of course, (they still have free will ) if they will live out Catholicism or not.

Speaking of Conferences: Do you know which conference your teens are attending?

 

[James0235]

JNB:

James, I suspect you know the parish I attend, and you points are quite valid.

It think it was easy to figure out. I’m considering registering there myself.

JNB:

I didnt even know my faith untill my mid 20s, I remeber going to Sunday School after mass before first communion and all I really rember from it was lite rock and folk songs they played in those classes. My fear about life teen is it may be more show and little substance, especially if it creeps into the liturgy.

There is definately some show involved. But it is used to draw them in to receive the substance.

JNB:

LIke RCIA, I assume Life Teen is as good as the people running it, and again my main concern is the potential for abuse during mass, and I just am concerfned that mass for some may be more of a show than a sacrafice. I know there is the issue of how do we get from here to there, and I know that teens that know next to nothing about their faith would not jump into a TLM or even reverent NO right away, but in your opinion,m how well does life teen prepqare teens for the time they are on their own and how to maintain their faith?

No, most wouldn’t jump into a TLM even if they did know it existed. I like to make sure that they do know it exists. I even took about a half dozen to the TLM over a yr ago. I also make sure they are aware of the eastern Catholic Churches. We do have 2 Melkite and a Ruthenian close by. I’ve thought about a trip to one of them as well.

As to how well LT prepares teens for maintaining faith on their own I think it does a good job. I fairly regularly receive emails from teens who are now on their own in college. They often have questions about how to best explain this or that belief to a protestant. Or sometimes they want to know if something their priest said in a homily was correct or if something he does during mass is liturgically correct. To my knowledge none of them is involved in a LT parish even when one is in the area. One girl even told me that she loves the reverence shown in her new parish.

St. Patrick and St. Dominic, pray for our teens!

James

 

[Sir_Hubert]

The Parish I attend is a “Hub” in the life teen program. ( An example for other parishes that wish to follow the program) I have seen some wonderful things come out of the program, but the liturgical abuses are rampent !!! I could make a list the length of my arm showing the possibe problems with Life Teen, but I’ll spare everyone. One of the most noticible aspects of the LT program at the parish I attend is when you enter the church the first thing your eyes are drawn to is the drum set, key boards, and guitars on the side altar. The LT Mass is at 5:30 PM on Sundays, and fairly well attended. There has been a few “issues” in the past requiring that some adults be present now. (Teen aged boys and girls together without supervision can cause some problems )

The most surprising thing I’ve noticed, based on direct experience, is that when the teens graduate from high school, many of these teens stop going to church all together, ( “If I can’t be directly involved any more, I don’t want to be there”), or look for the most “Traditional” Mass they can. These folks feel that they were “wrong” to attend the LT Mass when they were younger, realizing after some invesigating that the LT Mass was a liturgical mess.

When I’ve asked the Pastor about the abuses, he’s responded that " Life Teen is performed in the spirit of Vatican II embracing the love of Jesus for all " Yes, he did say performed.

Before anyone asks why I don’t take these issues to the Bishop, let me say I live in the Albany, NY diocese. One of the most liberal in the nation. Thankfully one can attend the parish and never have to attend the LT Mass.

Actually, the most highly attend Mass is the 7:30 AM Sunday Mass. The “Traditional” one …

In His Peace!