Life Teen Mass

[proud2bcatholic]

Exalt,

I am a 22 year old that grew up in the Lifeteen program in the founding parish, St. Timothy’s in Mesa, AZ. I no longer go to that parish, because my spirituality has developed into a more contemplative and reverent. I do not prefer Lifeteen Masses any longer, but I do believe Lifeteen is needed in the Church in America, if it makes a few changes.

First of all, the Lifeteen program definitely needs to rid itself of all Liturgical abuses, out of obedience to the Magisterium. This is an absolute necessity, in my opinion. Thankfully, it looks like that is beginning to happen.

Second of all, I do believe that there needs to be a greater sense of reverence taught to the teens. Now, I am not saying that Lifeteen needs to get rid of the music that they use, but I do think there can be improvements so as to foster reverence in the lifes of the teens. The teens need a sense of awe and reverence when approaching the Lord. In my experiences, the Lifeteen program did foster a passionate love for the Eucharist, but in my opinion it wasn’t well balanced. The devotions to the Eucharist were always based on emotion. Whenever, I went to adoration at a Lifeteen program it was more of a praise and worship session than adoration. If one reads the stories of the saints, they always talk about reverence and silence in the presence of the Lord. It would be great if Lifeteen could emphasize this more, and eventually it would be great if that was the major emphasis. This reverence and awe is absolutely necessary if the teens are going to take the next step in growing spiritually.

Third of all, the teens need to be more modest when coming to Mass and Lifeteen events. I could not believe how much skin I saw at Lifeteen Masses.

Fourth of all, there needs to be more of a focus on the necessity of Confession and how integral it is to receive the Eucharist. They need to be taught that if they are not in a state of grace then they cannot receive the Eucharist. Not once, was this taught to me in my 4 years of Lifeteen (and I was there every week for Lifeteen Mass and the retreats).

Thank you for reading my post, and I hope that you will take some of these recommendations and try to implement it in your ministry.

Thank you for your service to the Church and our youth.

 

[Exalt]

Exalt,

I am a 22 year old that grew up in the Lifeteen program in the founding parish, St. Timothy’s in Mesa, AZ. I no longer go to that parish, because my spirituality has developed into a more contemplative and reverent. I do not prefer Lifeteen Masses any longer, but I do believe Lifeteen is needed in the Church in America, if it makes a few changes.

First of all, the Lifeteen program definitely needs to rid itself of all Liturgical abuses, out of obedience to the Magisterium. This is an absolute necessity, in my opinion. Thankfully, it looks like that is beginning to happen.

Second of all, I do believe that there needs to be a greater sense of reverence taught to the teens. Now, I am not saying that Lifeteen needs to get rid of the music that they use, but I do think there can be improvements so as to foster reverence in the lifes of the teens. The teens need a sense of awe and reverence when approaching the Lord. In my experiences, the Lifeteen program did foster a passionate love for the Eucharist, but in my opinion it wasn’t well balanced. The devotions to the Eucharist were always based on emotion. Whenever, I went to adoration at a Lifeteen program it was more of a praise and worship session than adoration. If one reads the stories of the saints, they always talk about reverence and silence in the presence of the Lord. It would be great if Lifeteen could emphasize this more, and eventually it would be great if that was the major emphasis. This reverence and awe is absolutely necessary if the teens are going to take the next step in growing spiritually.

Third of all, the teens need to be more modest when coming to Mass and Lifeteen events. I could not believe how much skin I saw at Lifeteen Masses.

Fourth of all, there needs to be more of a focus on the necessity of Confession and how integral it is to receive the Eucharist. They need to be taught that if they are not in a state of grace then they cannot receive the Eucharist. Not once, was this taught to me in my 4 years of Lifeteen (and I was there every week for Lifeteen Mass and the retreats).

Thank you for reading my post, and I hope that you will take some of these recommendations and try to implement it in your ministry.

Thank you for your service to the Church and our youth.

That was a very well thought out post indeed. I definately agree. There has been a shift within the LifeTeen movement recently towards more silent, reverent, and cotemplative moments. (they really emphasized it at the June training last month) I’m glad thier curbing the liturgical changes as well - it will make the mass more accessible. By the way, what Monsingor Dale is talking about in that bulliten is most likely Rome’s response to a letter Monsingor Dale wrote to them asking them what the new changes meant regarding LifeTeen, particularly.

Leading teens into being able to experiance God in many different ways (not just through community prayer and worship but through alone silent time) is key as well, good point.

I will definately make it a point, throughout my ministry, that confession is absolutely critical in one’s spiritual life. We absolutely need to emphasis this point more.

Are you involved in youth ministry? Your experiance would be extremely valuable.

 

[deogratias]

Dear Proud2bCatholic - I read in St. Tim’s Bulletin for July 4 (online - I don’t go there) that they will no longer be gathering around the altar for what I called the altar sway and no longer saying “The Mass Never Ends”…per instruction from Rome.

I went there once when I first moved to the Phx Diocese because I had been out of town and needed to meet my Sunday obligation (seems all Sunday evening Masses in the Diocese are Life Teen or nonexistent) and though that was 3 years ago, I havn’t recovered from it. The priest standing on the altar saying “lets dance” and everyone doing some sort of Samba movement - I would have enjoyed the music elsewhere because they were good musicians but not at the Mass. That church looks more like an auditorium than a Church by the way - theater seating, no kneelers if I remember correctly.

That said, let me say I am not in favor of the Life Teen Mass but think the Life Teen after Mass program can be good and can offer a lot of catachesis if done correctly. It also is a good opportunity to introduce friends into Catholicism.

 

[Exalt]

The priest standing on the altar saying “lets dance”

Standing ON the altar?! baaaah, I can see how you are still recovering from it. I like energy before mass with rehersing music and dialouge between the priest and the people. But that seems a bit extreme.

One thing I really liked about St. Tims is how they have a seperate prayer/adoration room located away from the church. I wanted to quiet down before mass, so I went in there. Brillant idea indeed.

 

[system]

Exalt:

One thing I really liked about St. Tims is how they have a seperate prayer/adoration room located away from the church. I wanted to quiet down before mass, so I went in there. Brillant idea indeed.

A more brilliant idea would be some basic education on the need for quiet and reverence in the church itself.

Add me to the list of people who’ve had really disturbing experiences with masses (not just LT, by the way) at St. “Tim’s” parish.

 

[proud2bcatholic]

I do not like to criticize priests, I prefer to pray for them. However, I will say that there have been some things at St. Timothy’s masses that should never belong in a Mass, and in my opinion desecrates the sacredness of the Mass.

Having said that, I like to pray and offer constructive criticism. Msgr. Dale is a well-intentioned priest, he truly cares for his flock and the teens, he is just going about the wrong way in regards to the Liturgy, in my opinion. Hopefully, the crackdown by the Magisterium will purge the abuses from the Mass.

Please pray for Msgr. Dale, he is a very talented man that can do a lot of good for the Church. Destructive criticism (which I assure you he receives alot of) never does any good. Prayers, support, and constructive accountability goes a long way.

 

[Exalt]

the need for quiet and reverence in the church itself.

Do you mean quiet and reverence at all times? Surely there are times for music outside, perhaps, of the mass setting, but inside the church setting?

Oh, and I would love if someone could find the letter from Rome so we could read about it. Msgr. Dale said that Rome had great support for the LifeTeen program, too, as well as having problems with some facets of the liturgy.

 

[proud2bcatholic]

Exalt,

I am currently not in youth ministry. Right now, my ministry is prayer and pro-life. I currently do not have the time necessary to minister to the youth.

I will be a Theology major this fall at Franciscan Univ. I hope to eventually be a Professor of Theology and maybe become a Deacon. I am not sure yet, wherever God leads me. I may be involved in youth ministry in the future, but right now it just doesn’t fit my schedule.

That is why I am very appreciative of your ministry. You are performing a tough but very important service, and I am thankful to you for building up the Church in this manner.

 

[proud2bcatholic]

I would also love to read that document.

 

[deogratias]

Oh, and I would love if someone could find the letter from Rome so we could read about it. Msgr. Dale said that Rome had great support for the LifeTeen program, too, as well as having problems with some facets of the liturgy.

I am sure the only one who has the letter is Msgr. Dale.

 

[proud2bcatholic]

Alot of people, btw, do not like the design of the church. Including Msgr. Dale and myself.

 

[Rick_Bohler]

mark a:

Looking for comments from different parishes. My kids prefer it (oldest is 12). It’s usually full too. I find it a little long on the music and short on traditional things, although the Apostles’ Creed was added back last week instead of the usual song after the homily.

You can tell the hard core Catholics that are there because they won’t “reach” ((extend their right arm toward the Crucifix (what is this gesture called anyway?)) or hold hands during the Lords Prayer.

Why do people think that the Mass has to be dumbed down for teenagers? Some say:"Teenagers speak a different language."Similarly, ghetto talk can be dressed up with a fancy title like “ebonics”, but it’s still an abberration of the English language. (which I call the “Ebonic Plague”).Catholics have lost too much of their sense of heritage. The Holy Mass is the re-presentation of Calvary, the magnificent UNIVERSAL PRAYER OF THE CHURCH, and not to be tinkered with just to kowtow to “special groups”. Should there be banging bongos and electric guitars on the Hill? Remember that word “reverence”?? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

 

[deogratias]

proud2bcatholic:

Alot of people, btw, do not like the design of the church. Including Msgr. Dale and myself.

Who designed it? I tried to find out on the web page and it says it was dedicated in 1982 but did not say who designed it.

I wonder if others who offer LT Masses will end the gathering around the altar too. I would imagine since St. Tim’s was the model for the LT Mass, that it will trickle down and be advised that all the Life Teen Masses that do this will end the practice. I hope so.

 

[Exalt]

Why do people think that the Mass has to be dumbed down for teenagers?

Bwa? Who said anything about dumbed down? When I was talking about a “different language,” I meant it in a more metaphoric sense. Obviously, teens speak english, just as we do. However, a priest’s homily is normally targeted at the “average” congregation. That is, to the majority of the congregation - which are adults. Certianly, they are applicable to teen’s lives, usually, but the language is frequently over thier heads (or just plain nuetral), and the message is too vague for practical application into a teen’s life. By having a teen mass, the “average” value of the congregation is much younger. Thus, it is much safer to make homilies that speak to teens about issues they are directly struggling with - issues that adults wouldn’t have much issue with - like dating and other sexual issues, school, self-esteem, problems with parents (4th commandment, anyone?), et cetra. Furthermore, teens tend to appreciate and get alot more out of a guitar driven, praise and worship style music ministry at mass. I don’t know why they like this music better than the more traditional music (perhaps it is the energy and near-tangible joy or hand-clappable-ness, when appropriate, which would only be the ending song), but they do. It speaks to them.

Thus, while the word “teen culture” is quite distinct and not a metaphor, the word “teen language” is more metaphoric.

However, this aguementation on my part can’t sway your initial conviction that “The Holy Mass is the re-presentation of Calvary, the magnificent UNIVERSAL PRAYER OF THE CHURCH, and not to be tinkered with just to kowtow to ‘special groups’”. This attitude directly contradicts GIRM no. 40: Great importance should therefore be attached to the use of singing in the celebration of the Mass, with due consideration for the culture of the people and abilities of each liturgical assembly. " & GIRM no. 65: “The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended, for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners” and GIRM 24: “These adaptations consist for the most part in the choice of certain rites or texts, that is, of the chants, readings, prayers, explanations, and gestures that may respond better to the needs, preparation, and culture of the participants and that are entrusted to the priest celebrant. Nevertheless, the priest must remember that he is the servant of the Sacred Liturgy and that he himself is not permitted, on his own initiative, to add, to remove, or to change anything in the celebration of Mass.”

A portion of the congregation is currently not being well served in many of our parishes across the nation. This portion has distinct needs and concerns that we, by virtue of our baptismal call to service, must address. At most parishes, 4 or 5 masses are offered that do not address these issues and do not serve this portion. Looking at the references above, and the USCCB document Renewing the Vision that it is perfectly acceptable to have a mass that specifically seeks out to serve this portion of the congregation.

Another way to look at it is this: Let’s say 5% of your congregation only speaks spanish. While the other 95% are currently well served, the 5% is not. It is perfectly acceptable to have a mass that better serves those 5%, even though it may leave out the 95%. But, those 95% have 3 or 4 other masses to go to. How is it different for youth? How is it different for those that prefer traditional or latin-style masses?

 

[Exalt]

I wonder if others who offer LT Masses will end the gathering around the altar too. I would imagine since St. Tim’s was the model for the LT Mass, that it will trickle down and be advised that all the Life Teen Masses that do this will end the practice. I hope so.

Yep, I’m sure that will happen. I’ve already contacted our Parish’s Director of Religous Education, Youth Minister, and Pastor with the news. I’m sure they’ll recieve something more official soon. We want to be as obiedent to the Bishops as much as the next ministryt!

 

[system]

Exalt:

Furthermore, teens tend to appreciate and get alot more out of a guitar driven, praise and worship style music ministry at mass. I don’t know why they like this music better than the more traditional music (perhaps it is the energy and near-tangible joy or hand-clappable-ness, when appropriate, which would only be the ending song), but they do. It speaks to them.

I am no more able to speak for all teens than you are, but I disagree with that premise. If teens have been educated in the faith by “youth ministers” and “praise and worship and energy and joy” is all they know, then their education isn’t broad enough to make an informed decision. If LT is to provide education, then why doesn’t the format alternate from guitars one week, to organ and chant the next, a quiet mass the next? Then a full education on “liturgical styles” can be had.

However, this aguementation on my part can’t sway your initial conviction that “The Holy Mass is the re-presentation of Calvary, the magnificent UNIVERSAL PRAYER OF THE CHURCH, and not to be tinkered with just to kowtow to ‘special groups’”. This attitude directly contradicts GIRM … I agree with you - this is the impasse of the debate. You interpret the GIRM to say that age-targeted masses are appropriate, and some of us don’t think “culture of the people” and “needs of the listeners” should be interpreted that broadly. Y

ou are continuing to blur simple “language” issues with “age” issues. Having an all-ages mass in Spanish, English, Latin just isn’t the same thing are having a mass targeted at a single age group. It gives teens the false impression that they have a special role, when in fact everyone in the parish family should stand on equal ground. Most priests are perfectly able to give a homily that is relevant to all ages.

 

[proud2bcatholic]

The church was designed by the founding pastor, I don’t remember his name. He ended up marrying a woman and was thus laicized. Msgr. Dale was his replacement, and he has been there ever since.

 

[deogratias]

I was quite surprised to see one of the priests granted faculties to say the Tridentine Mass in Phoenix was Msg. Moyer from St. Timothy’s - that seems a real dichotomy.

 

[deogratias]

Someone called it to my attention that I may have been mistaken on the name of the Msg. who said the Latin Masss today - so “nevermind”.

 

[Exalt]

You are continuing to blur simple “language” issues with “age” issues. Having an all-ages mass in Spanish, English, Latin just isn’t the same thing are having a mass targeted at a single age group. It gives teens the false impression that they have a special role, when in fact everyone in the parish family should stand on equal ground. Most priests are perfectly able to give a homily that is relevant to all ages.

Well, not quite so simple when it comes to Latin. No one speaks Latin anymore, thus making it quite different from Spanish. You and I will agree that the cause for having Latin traditional masses is because there are people who feel more moved and have a deeper spiritual connection while at a Latin Traditional mass than when at a normal mass. As far as a Spanish mass goes: Indeed, having a Spanish mass is much more important than having a youth mass, if the Spanish popluation’s needs are not being met.

Homilies: Yes, I agree that it is possible for Preists to give homilies that are relevant to all ages, indeed. But when was the last time you heard a priest talk about voting? Not too long ago, right? Well, teens can’t vote (although thier political opinions are important). But when was the last time you heard a priest addressing issues about the 4th commandment? Or about dating? These issues are very relevant to teenagers, perhaps much more relevant than the voting issues.

My point is that while teens should not be talked down to, they do have special needs that need to be met. Perhaps we disagree about addressing those needs in a homily, thus going back to the broader issue above.

I also agree with you about everyone standing on equal ground. But the problem is that youth stand at a lower level than the rest of the congregation in most parishes. They lack the years of experience, they lack good religious education, they lack solid spiritual experiances, they lack the freedom that adults have but have similiar responsiblities, they are simply under-developed, when compared to adults in a parish. We have a great oppurtunity to minister to them. We should be willing to train all people in our congregation as lectors and other liturgical ministers - and because teens are a different animal than adults (so to speak) the training is neccessarily going to be different.

Let me try and use a metaphor: You and your congregation are climbing a very large mountain. The “older” climbers, who are climbing towards the top of the mountain, need different equipment because the mountian is steeper here, and the rock types are different. The “younger” climbers can’t use the “older” climbers’ equipment, because they are still climbing on the less-steep slopes on a different type of rock. You both are climbing the same mountian, and eventually will get to the same point, but you need different types of equipment at different times to get there. Trying to get teens to get the same value out of your worship style is the same thing. You’re trying to get them to use the wrong equipment, and while some teens will figure your equipment out, it usually won’t work. With Liturgical training, the same principal is present. We should be willing to train everyone that feels the Call - we want everyone that wants to climb the mountain to get to the top. But the majority of adults are half-way up the mountain already! They way you would bring them to the top is different from the way you would bring youth, who are at the bottom of the mountian, to the top.