Life Teen Mass

[Exalt]

Melman:

I am no more able to speak for all teens than you are, but I disagree with that premise. If teens have been educated in the faith by “youth ministers” and “praise and worship and energy and joy” is all they know, then their education isn’t broad enough to make an informed decision. If LT is to provide education, then why doesn’t the format alternate from guitars one week, to organ and chant the next, a quiet mass the next? Then a full education on “liturgical styles” can be had.

That’s a very good point. Would you support a LT program if it had this sort of “liturgical education”? We’ve considered having trips to parishes that offer masses in a much different style then our own - ie: traditional Tridentine masses. However, I do want to point out that cantor and organ masses are the norm for most masses - thus, a LT mass with that particular style would be unneccessary. The point, however, isn’t the music surrounding the mass, it’s the Eucharist. Teens know this very well, but as a few people on this thread have pointed out, there needs to be some “fine-tuning” indeed.

I agree with you - this is the impasse of the debate. You interpret the GIRM to say that age-targeted masses are appropriate, and some of us don’t think “culture of the people” and “needs of the listeners” should be interpreted that broadly.

Yep, this is the fundamental disagreement. I want to make one appeal, however. It seems that the Bishops have favored the interpretation to consider youth as a seperate culture that is appropriate for having a seperate mass. Check out the USCCB document Renewing the Vision. Particularly, the section on Praise and Worship.

 

[stjoecym]

Can anyone give me specific references in the various liturgical documents that address who can/can’t be around the altar and during which parts of the Mass? That would be VERY helpful, and I figured that since gathering around the altar is an issue with LIFE TEEN, this would be a good forum in which to ask, because (no doubt) you have all researched this instead of just battling opinions back and forth. Thank you.

 

[deogratias]

I think this should speak for itself. Msg. Dale was the founder of the Life Teen Masses. In his July 4 Church Bulletin at St. Timothy’s Parish in Mesa he wrote:

"I** recently received word from Rome** that we need to make a couple of changes in our Mass. The two changs will be (1) to stop gathering children and teens in the sanctuary at the Chilren’s, EDGE, and 6 p.m. Teen Masses and (3) to stop saying, “The Mass never ends…” at teh end of our liturgies. Before you react please understand that we are cooperating fully in what the Church has asked us to do.

 

[Meggie]

Life Teen is not ment for the bona fide Catholic Teen. It is ment for kids like me and my friends who have NO understanding of the Catholic Church, to introduce us to the faith bit by bit, to slowly break us in to the Catholic Church and its teaching…its very affective because we have had 12 teen converts(from no religion) alone in the past four years and atleast 30 kids receive their first communion through proper RCIA and countless more Catholic kids be re-dedicated to Christ. Until parents or CCD does its job properly then my opinion is that despite its abuses LT is a good program, and one of the only programs that work to truly pass on the teachings to the youth.

 

[deogratias]

I think the LIfe Teen Program - i.e. life night and catachesis are great - I think the Life Teen Mass has gone over the top and I think you will be seeing some changes there very very soon.

 

[Llane]

This past weekend, I had the privilege of attending the Steubenville Atlanta Conference and one of the speakers was Msgr. Dale Fushek, founder of Life Teen. He held a meeting on Saturday afternoon and addressed some of the liturgical changes for the Life Teen Mass.

He stated that he received a letter from Cardinal Arinze in the Vatican, and was **commended **for his program. In fact, Rome has called Life Teen a model for teen ministry. However, two major liturgical changes were mandated.

• No more teens gathering around the altar.
• Also, the practice of saying “The Mass never ends” is unacceptable and must be ended.

Both changes were scheduled to take effect at all Life Teen parishes by October 1, 2004. The reason for the delay is so that all could receive catechesis on the reasons for these decisions.

Other than those two abuses which are now being corrected, Cardinal Arinze did **NOT **condemn the music, the concept of having a Mass geared toward teens, the other activities of the program, or anything else. I was impressed my Monsignor’s obedient and charitable attitude toward correcting these abuses and following the Vatican’s instructions.

At my parish, our Life Teen Mass is filled with people ages 8 days to 80 years worshipping. It is NOT a teen rock concert. The music (including guitars and drums ) is no louder than the organ and is quite reverent and adds to, instead of detracting from, the Mass. Certainly some improvements could be made in the areas of teen dress and reverence: these areas are being worked on and progress is being made. The answer to these problems is not a wholesale scrapping of the Life Teen Mass, but rather more education on the importance of dressing appropriately and showing reverence for Christ is Holy Mass.

To be continued… (the original was too long)

 

[Llane]

continued from post #1…

I believe that Life Teen is a stellar program for the youth. I entered the program when I was a 13-year-old high school freshman preparing for Confirmation. I am now a seminarian preparing to do God’s Will for my life. (Thanks be to God! :dancing: ) I would not be where I am if it were not for Life Teen.

Some posters have argued that more catechesis is needed for teens. I agree with this position to some extent but feel that evangelization, that is, telling teens that Christ and His Church loves them and cares about them, must come first. I know that for me, once I fell in love with Christ and His Catholic Church, I read every book I could get my hands on to learn more about what the Church teaches. I know that this pattern has occurred with many other teens, not just me. High schoolers live in a confusing and difficult world. So many temptations exist to distract. Life Teen leads them closer to Christ and the Sacraments, especially Eucharist and Confession.

Our parish has had two former teens from LT enter seminary (including myself) and one enter the Sisterhood in the last thirteen months. :clapping: More teens are in discernment. Many more will grow up to be holy college students (not a contradiction! ). They will be holy husbands and wives, mothers and fathers, and lead strong Catholic families. Most importantly, they will continue to love Our Lord and the Holy Catholic Church that He founded.

I do not mean this post as an insult to my brethren who prefer attending the Traditional Latin Mass and more traditional Novus Ordo Masses. I love you all as brothers and sisters in Christ and wish you the best. However, I feel that Life Teen offers a legitimate (approved by Rome) option for teens to grow deeper in and more in love with their Catholic faith.

 

[deogratias]

I am pleased too with Msg. Dale’s obedience. In all fairness he was not being disobedient before in that the former Bishop of our Diocese had given permission for those things which are now being changed.

Good luck with your vocation and out of curiosity, does the seminary you are attending require courses in Latin? I read recently that this is required by Canon Law but that many U.S. Seminaries no longer teach it or at best offer it as a one semester elective. I find this odd since it is still the official language of the Roman Church even if the Mass be said totally in the Vernacular.

 

[stjoecym]

As much as I like Msgr. Dale, his comments are not an “official liturgical document”. Any other references?

deogratias:

I think this should speak for itself. Msg. Dale was the founder of the Life Teen Masses. In his July 4 Church Bulletin at St. Timothy’s Parish in Mesa he wrote:

Thanks!

 

[Llane]

deogratias:

Good luck with your vocation and out of curiosity, does the seminary you are attending require courses in Latin? I read recently that this is required by Canon Law but that many U.S. Seminaries no longer teach it or at best offer it as a one semester elective. I find this odd since it is still the official language of the Roman Church even if the Mass be said totally in the Vernacular.

To be completely honest, I’m not 100% sure but I believe that I will be required to take some Latin. I’m beginning minor seminary this fall, so I don’t know when it will happen, but I imagine that it will sooner or later.

 

[deogratias]

This is a very good article about Seminaries in the U.S. you may wish to read since you are just beginning your journey.

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1095

Regarding Latin it says

The Second Vatican Council, in Optatam Totius, explicitly requires seminarians, before undertaking theological studies, to acquire “a knowledge of Latin which will enable them to understand and make use of so many scientific resources and of the documents of the Church.” This provision was carried over into the new Code of Canon Law, which decreed that “the program of priestly formation is to provide that the students are not only taught their native language accurately, but are also well versed in Latin.” This language is dutifully repeated verbatim in the Handbook for Vocation and Seminary Personnel issued by the NCCB. The Second Vatican Council, in Optatam Totius, explicitly requires seminarians, before undertaking theological studies, to acquire “a knowledge of Latin which will enable them to understand and make use of so many scientific resources and of the documents of the Church.” This provision was carried over into the new Code of Canon Law, which decreed that “the program of priestly formation is to provide that the students are not only taught their native language accurately, but are also well versed in Latin.” This language is dutifully repeated verbatim in the Handbook for Vocation and Seminary Personnel issued by the NCCB.

It later goes on to say that

So how do American seminaries go about ensuring that future priests are “well-versed” in Latin, not only for the sake of their theological studies, but also for their future ministry? The curricula of some of the largest U.S. seminaries for the diocesan clergy show that—excepting the Pontifical North American College in Rome—the Church’s well-grounded canonical and historical reasons for promoting Latin studies are more apt to be honored in the breach. The approach of Chicago’s Mundelein Seminary, the nation’s largest, is typical. Its pre-theology program consists of a three-quarter academic year in which 33 quarter-hours of philosophy studies and 21 quarter-hours of religious studies are required. The academic catalogue is quick to add that “there are also opportunities for cultural enrichment study, for language studies (Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Spanish), and for limited electives depending on the student’s interests and available time.” And even if an industrious student were to find the time to study Latin, the seminary only offers two courses in its entire six-year program (Latin I and II). Notre Dame Seminary in New Orleans is even more niggardly in its offerings: For the entire course of pre-theology and theology studies, only two elective credit hours of Latin are offered. Mount Angel Seminary in Oregon does not require Latin, though it does offer 12 semester hours. Interestingly enough, it does require 15 hours of Spanish and Hispanic culture and ministry studies. The second-largest seminary in the country, Mount St. Mary’s Seminary in Emmitsburg, Maryland, is perhaps the most faithful to both the letter and the spirit of the Church’s prescription of Latin studies. Depending on whether the student has had a background in the language or not, Latin is required in each of the four semesters of the pre-theology program. Various advanced-level Latin courses are also offered during the years of theological studies explicitly to reinforce this knowledge, such as “Readings in the Latin Fathers I and II.” It is described as “an introduction to the life and thought of the Latin Fathers through a systematic reading of selections in Latin, with attention to grammar, syntax and rhetoric. The course is intended to build upon prior knowledge of the basics of Latin grammar.”

 

[misericordie]

Catholic Eagle:

Life teen messes have to be banned!!! There is no need for them and they keep teenagers in an infantile state If you want your teenagers to become good Catholics[and good adults] do these things.
1.Take them to the Traditional Latin Mass
2.Throw away the TV
3.say the family rosary
4.burn all evil magazines and texts[thank you Baltimore Catechism[ With all do respect to everyone here, I DO agree with you. It is funny though the way you phrase it here I sure hope breakdancing is not there too?

 

[deogratias]

Catholic Eagle is shown to be suspended so there is no sense responding to his posts.

 

[Marines]

Well I’m a teen and I prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass. Heck, I even got my picture in the Dallas Morning News(which goes all over the state and even into Oklahoma) for doing so.

 

[oat_soda]

I’ve been to a life teen mass and noticed that the teens were under-dressed and somewhat too casual. I remember the teens were dressed in t-shirts shorts/jeans and sneakers and one of the girls was chewing gum. the music was poor and too loud. This sunday, they ended the mass with the “lean on me” song. i don’t see how this is fitting. appropriate selection of music gets very subjective once you stray from traditional music, i.e. gregorian chant. for instance, why not play “living on a prayer” by bon jovi, i like that song?

I think a mass targeted to youths or teens is a great idea but we shouldn’t lower the bar as if the only way these kids can relate is with rock and roll. lets give them an appreciation of classical art and culture and not what comes out of the tv or the satan box.

i can’t tell you how sick i am of hearing from people that everything is ok as long as we love each other or Jesus. In case you haven’t noticed, the Church is a mess right now and so is society. We need to instill in our teens a healthy fear of God and a balance of his infinite mercy and justice.

 

[Pro_Iesu]

Hmmm well I can say I’m kinda in everybodies boat here. Im 17 and I attend both No masses and LT masses regularly. I have begun to go to Confession at least once a month and sometimes adoration. I listen to catholic music in Latin, Catholic Songs in English, and some Contemporary CATHOLIC music.(how is it catholic? it emphasizes the eucharist as Christ etc!)

I am very attracted to having latin placed back into certain parts of the Mass like in the Masses of EWTN.

I agree many abuses were in Life Teen and are being corrected but technically they werent abuses for before being allowed in the mass permission the local ordinary(bishop) was attained. So it wasn’t in order to disrespect the mass. And I’m proud that there has been compliance regarding the proper disposition in mass and the proper liturgy and that they are also trying to follow the Roman Missal more closely ( even more so than some NO masses)

There are abuses in every type of Mass you can’t pick on just Life Teen, but we must work to make each Mass as Holy and Reverent as Possible. And regarding adoration there Has been a great change from what was happening before there is more reverence, silence, and proper attire.

And now there are some Catholic Musicians who are incorporating Latin into certain songs which i find far more traditional than some of the songs composed in the 70’s used in NO masses.

And Music is different everywhere. In Mexico they have organs and so on and so forth but they use the guitar more so.

I love all kinds of Masses as long as they are in compliance with Rome, which is how we should all be. It is alright to have a prefernce and to like certain things but all masses should follow the criteria required to properly remember and participate in our lords Perfect offering.

And please do not say I am to young to know the beauty of certain things or have the proper knowledge because there are many things regarding apologetics, church history, the bible, cathichetics, art and other subjects regarding catholicism that I may know more about than many of you.( no disrespect because I know plenty of you are amazing catholics and know a great deall more about certain issues, topics etc which I’m grateful for your sharing with me)

Beleive me we must all help each other out if our brother falls we must help him get back on the straight and narrow path and not abondon him to eternal torment. Strive to aide each other and learn from each other so that we may all grow in Christ’s love as well as build his church, respect, participate and revere him at his Mass, learn and use his sacraments, teach his truth, and support each other.

Pray for all those who go to Mass whichever it may be, for our seminarians, priests and themagisterium, for a greater and proper use of the sacraments, better teaching of the faith, a greater love among catholics, and for the eradication of abuses of liturgy in the Mass, a retracing of our roots, and a greater obedience to our Papa John Paul 2. Amen my brothers!

 

[Exalt]

Llane: That was a great post. Very carefuly articulated and loving. It sounds like something Jesus would say.

With all do respect to everyone here, I DO agree with you. It is funny though the way you phrase it here I sure hope breakdancing is not there too?

Have you ever seen a good breakdancer? Man, they are awesome! I definately can’t do that stuff. We have a few really good breakdancers in our parish youth group, they are quite amazing. Of course, breakdancing should not be allowed at mass for sure.

 

[misericordie]

RichT:

Might I remind you that our youth may only be 3% of our current population, they are in fact 100% of our future.

If you don’t agree with the Life Teen Mass DON’T GO!!!:banghead: There are plenty of us who don’t agree with your points of view. Wow, imagine that, the freedom to have my own point of view! It is opinions like your that are exactly like that of many fundamentalists. Thoughts like “It’s our way or the highway.” I am glad I have the freedom to choose the way I worship my God and that I am not forced to conform to some rigid set of rules. I have been to many Life Teen masses and the ones I have gone to have been wonderful. I have never seen more reverance and respect shown towards Jesus by young people than by the ones who attend this mass regularly. I have never observed any liturgical abuses. Maybe there are some parishes who cross the line, and I agree that they need to be fixed, but don’t just assume they all cross the line. As far as the teens being invited up to the sanctuary for the Eucharistic celebration, didn’t a certain Jewish Carpenter say to let the children come? You hard nose consertatives want to bottle Jesus up and put Him in a place where the faithful can only look at Him. Don’t you think Jesus would invite the children and in fact all of us to the sanctuary if He came back today and celebrated the mass. I happen to think He would want nothing more than to be as close as possible to his Church while sharing the blessed Sacrament with them. Well, when that day comes I know I won’t be afraid to run up and wrap my arms around Him. What are you going to do? Maybe you will just kneel the whole time and miss all the excitement.:bowdown: I get so sick and tired of hearing adults say, “Why can’t I get my kids more interested in church?” Well, there is a simple solution, provide a place for them to feel safe, secure, wanted, and most of all, loved! That is the entire goal of the Life Teen Mass. Get a clue!

There is NO such thing but a CATHOLIC MASS. The the liturgical abuses found at the so called “life teen” messes are what Cardinal Arinze points out in the latest document. Mass is not a party or entertainment, is is the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross.
Let me remind you that MANY of the people I see at the Latin Tridentine Indult Mass are families with their kids, and teen children who are interested in serving God, not entertainment.
It is because of these messes that I together with my young Adult friends ONLY attend the Latin Tridentine MASSES(of indult):
www.ecclesiadei.org

 

[misericordie]

Iohannes:

Why go to Life Teen when you can attend this?

http://www.bronx.latinmass.org/images/image79.gif

NOW this is THE CATHOLIC MASS. Here, we won’t see breakdancing, women dancing in leotards, gum-chewing, lollypops, soda-pop drinking, peole laughing and joking, here CHRIST is adored, He is NOT just by buddy, but MY GOD AND MY ALL.
GREAT PICTURES BY THE WAY,where is this so I can go to THAT Mass???

 

[misericordie]

Marines:

Well I’m a teen and I prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass. Heck, I even got my picture in the Dallas Morning News(which goes all over the state and even into Oklahoma) for doing so.

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:dancing: :clapping: :tiphat: