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PatienceAndLove
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Can you elaborate?
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PatienceAndLove
Guest
We have two camps here- those who laud the program, and those of us who know people who have been adversely affected by the program- some to the point of leaving the Church.
Perhaps, like NCLB, LT looks good on paper, but isn’t being properly instituted, like so many other things?
As I stated before, you have to stop thinking that we need to pander to them, that we need to dumb it down for them, that it has to “feel good”- and I think these are all things most of the posters on this thread have experienced at Teen Nite/LIFE/LIFETeen
Agapewolf-
I am not meaning to pick on you- but how can you laud the program so when I have heard and experienced the complete opposite? Within the last year I have watched teenaged friends of mine abandon the Church from lack of challenge and teaching. I have seen young people my age leave leading LT because of the pandering and immaturity. They are embarrassed to be part of the program.
I am glad that you have experienced such great things… but how is it that your program is so great, while others flounder and fail those who seek it out?
To everyone-
Look at the number of seminarians and postulates that are entering traditional orders. How do you explain the rise of sites such as monkrock.com? Why are 15 year olds recognizing problems in the Church when adults deny them?
Perhaps, like NCLB, LT looks good on paper, but isn’t being properly instituted, like so many other things?
As I stated before, you have to stop thinking that we need to pander to them, that we need to dumb it down for them, that it has to “feel good”- and I think these are all things most of the posters on this thread have experienced at Teen Nite/LIFE/LIFETeen
Agapewolf-
I am not meaning to pick on you- but how can you laud the program so when I have heard and experienced the complete opposite? Within the last year I have watched teenaged friends of mine abandon the Church from lack of challenge and teaching. I have seen young people my age leave leading LT because of the pandering and immaturity. They are embarrassed to be part of the program.
I am glad that you have experienced such great things… but how is it that your program is so great, while others flounder and fail those who seek it out?
To everyone-
Look at the number of seminarians and postulates that are entering traditional orders. How do you explain the rise of sites such as monkrock.com? Why are 15 year olds recognizing problems in the Church when adults deny them?
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Pious_Mat
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It seems to me that all the youth who have commented on this thread don’t seem to think that teen masses do what they’re supposed to do. Not surprising, since it was probably concocted by a group of middle-aged people.
I do not doubt that people who organize and provide material for teen masses have the best intentions, and in many cases bring people closer to God, I just don’t think that this is the best way to go about it.
You can dress it up and take it out, but the mass is still the mass: passionate, sorrowful, pensive, and glorious. It’s not a Rock concert or a pep rally, it’s a sacrifice. That said, I don’t think that manipulating a centuries-old Rite for the sake of gaining someone’s approval is right.
That aside, I think that if a young person were to go to a Tridentine Mass, or a Novus Ordo in Latin, they would have a much holier experience.
I know that’s what would work for me. I’m a teen, and if I want to hear upbeat modern music and wave my hands around and afterward listen to a fiery sermon during which the speaker walks all over the place, I would go to the Pentecostal Church down the road. The slow commercialization, and, if you will, the “Protestantization” of the mass is not something we need in these mixed-up times.
I do not doubt that people who organize and provide material for teen masses have the best intentions, and in many cases bring people closer to God, I just don’t think that this is the best way to go about it.
You can dress it up and take it out, but the mass is still the mass: passionate, sorrowful, pensive, and glorious. It’s not a Rock concert or a pep rally, it’s a sacrifice. That said, I don’t think that manipulating a centuries-old Rite for the sake of gaining someone’s approval is right.
That aside, I think that if a young person were to go to a Tridentine Mass, or a Novus Ordo in Latin, they would have a much holier experience.
I know that’s what would work for me. I’m a teen, and if I want to hear upbeat modern music and wave my hands around and afterward listen to a fiery sermon during which the speaker walks all over the place, I would go to the Pentecostal Church down the road. The slow commercialization, and, if you will, the “Protestantization” of the mass is not something we need in these mixed-up times.
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passioncrosslov
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One thing I am curious about is do individuals/teens who are faithful to LT consistent throughout their life, or do the flames die down as they get older?
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daughterofmary
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In my experience with lifeteen I have seen it to be a great help to many teens, truly drawing them closer to Christ. I think the program works best for those young people who are on the verge of falling away from the Church or who have. I have found that for those young people who practice their faith with a lot of zeal already that the lifenights and the music at the Mass can be a bit of a disappointment at times.
The one thing I wanted more than anything was for them to teach more on the Eucharist, salvation history, the rosary, our Lady, and the Mass. And I wished that they would have introduced the young people to TLM. While I understand why they do more contemporary music at the lifeteen Mass and I understand it has drawn many young people closer to Christ… it was difficult for me to sense the sacred at the Mass. It seemed so focused on the music and trying to cheer teens up and make Mass seem “cool” that it took some of the focus off the miracle that was happening before everyone. It tried to make Mass cool besides stressing that Mass was cool because Jesus actually was there. It is always easy to critique something though and say how we would change it, but usually we never try to change things or do anything about it. I have a deep respect for anyone who takes on the job of trying to help young people and draw them closer to Christ. That is a job. And despite some things I did not altogether agree with… lifeteen had the best of intentions.
And as for the gathering around the altar thing… as others have said, that was discontinued. I never experienced at the “lifeteen” Mass and I am very glad I did not.
EDIT: When you have the right guy/gal running the program I think it can be challenging and wonderful. It really depends on the youth minister. A youth minister can easily teach about the things I suggested at lifenights and can introduce the teens to the TLM. They can encourage silence and prayer instead of a bunch of constant noise and music. They can teach the truth. It can be done with in the program. I think many bad experiences with lifeteen happen not because the program is totally messed up but because of the way it was done by the youth minister.
The one thing I wanted more than anything was for them to teach more on the Eucharist, salvation history, the rosary, our Lady, and the Mass. And I wished that they would have introduced the young people to TLM. While I understand why they do more contemporary music at the lifeteen Mass and I understand it has drawn many young people closer to Christ… it was difficult for me to sense the sacred at the Mass. It seemed so focused on the music and trying to cheer teens up and make Mass seem “cool” that it took some of the focus off the miracle that was happening before everyone. It tried to make Mass cool besides stressing that Mass was cool because Jesus actually was there. It is always easy to critique something though and say how we would change it, but usually we never try to change things or do anything about it. I have a deep respect for anyone who takes on the job of trying to help young people and draw them closer to Christ. That is a job. And despite some things I did not altogether agree with… lifeteen had the best of intentions.
And as for the gathering around the altar thing… as others have said, that was discontinued. I never experienced at the “lifeteen” Mass and I am very glad I did not.
EDIT: When you have the right guy/gal running the program I think it can be challenging and wonderful. It really depends on the youth minister. A youth minister can easily teach about the things I suggested at lifenights and can introduce the teens to the TLM. They can encourage silence and prayer instead of a bunch of constant noise and music. They can teach the truth. It can be done with in the program. I think many bad experiences with lifeteen happen not because the program is totally messed up but because of the way it was done by the youth minister.
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PatienceAndLove
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Here is a question for, since you seem to be younger than I. I am quite fond of the style my Church uses, and I think it would “appeal” to teens (I hate that phrase, but it is all I can come up with for now)
P&W starts about an hour before Mass, we do the rosary about 20 minutes before, and then have about 5-10 minutes of sacred silence before Mass.
We have begun using the Latin chant responses for Mass.
But as you mention, the glory of a Latin NO is beyond words. And I think the Latin NO would be a better choice for a “Teen Mass” because it is the Mass that we grew up with, and it is the one we know.
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PatienceAndLove
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Knowing people my age who were involved with it in HS- there is a fire, but it is not for LIFE Teen, but for traditionalism. OR they have left the Church from lack of challenge.One thing I am curious about is do individuals/teens who are faithful to LT consistent throughout their life, or do the flames die down as they get older?
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agapewolf
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You said modern music doesn’t belong in Mass. Therefore, a logical equation would be to say that GOd isn’t inspiring anyone to write for Mass today.
Also, if you will read my post above, you will see how the story unfolds about gathering teens around the altar…it was not an abuse, and they were not told to stop. THey were told they could get an indult, and LT chose not to.
Apparently, you missed the part where the vatican has approved and encouraged youth masses. JPII said himself that the youth are their own culture.
Do you not believe me when I state my statistics about vocations? Our seminary is PACKED with Lifeteen teens. Our conservative orders are packed (nuns on cots) with a lot of lifeteen teens. I have seen miracles happen. As I have stated many many times before (which apprently so many people are not reading) that it is changing lives and teens are bringing their parents back to the faith. I know this for a fact in many cities…so thats how I can “laud” a program, even though you…patience/love say you have a different experience.
Tonight… instead of hanging out here on the forum, I was at once per month adoration evening with p/w music with about 150 teens from one parish, along with about another 100 people of different ages. THAT is the fruits of Lifeteen.
GO to a lifeteen training conference for yourself and learn from them how they say to teach teens. Its only as good as the people who run it. In our diocese (where one of the most conservative bishops in the country LOVES it), we have success. I’m sorry you don’t
Yes, I have posted in the past (not in this thread), that for me, as a youth minister, Lifeteen helped me to love a quiet daily Mass and quiet adoration. As I have posted here that there are many vocations. I’m seeing in my diocese teens coming back from college working as youth ministers/dre’s, etcOne thing I am curious about is do individuals/teens who are faithful to LT consistent throughout their life, or do the flames die down as they get older?
The deal is, LT is probably not necessarily needed for everyone. Families with faithful parents teaching and supporting the faith for their kids…they won’t need some of the things that LT offers. But the fact is, lots of teens aren’t even going to church.
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palmas85
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:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:
ON NO. NOT ANOTHER LIFE TEEN THREAD. PLEASE TAKE IT AWAY. WHY CAN’T WE JUST LET IT DIE OFF, GIVE IT A GOOD BURIAL AND BE DONE WITH IT ONCE AND FOR ALL?
:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:
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fellowChristian
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We went to a different parish near the hospital my mother was in and we didn’t know it was a Life Teen Mass.
I am 36 and my husband is 34. We both found it distracting. The music was clearly the focus. With people raising their hands in the air and rolling their hands around during the Alleluia.
The “opening number” was like being at a concert.
We have been to that Mass twice only by chance. My husband thought it was a charismatic movement?
What happened to our traditions? They are slowly being pushed away. What is wrong with our traditions? Not entertaining enough?
I miss being able to pray before Mass. The bands are practicing and it is to loud to concentrate.
I miss being able to pray after Communion. Music and everyone singing is to loud.
With people talking, children crying (what is wrong with the cry rooms?) music playing it just doesn’t seem respectful enough.You know:shrug:
I miss my old parish (we moved) it is still very tradtional. Calming and spiritual. You can focus. You can pray the Mass with the father and not hear someone talking about where their going to lunch after Mass.
I am 36 and my husband is 34. We both found it distracting. The music was clearly the focus. With people raising their hands in the air and rolling their hands around during the Alleluia.
The “opening number” was like being at a concert.
We have been to that Mass twice only by chance. My husband thought it was a charismatic movement?
What happened to our traditions? They are slowly being pushed away. What is wrong with our traditions? Not entertaining enough?
I miss being able to pray before Mass. The bands are practicing and it is to loud to concentrate.
I miss being able to pray after Communion. Music and everyone singing is to loud.
With people talking, children crying (what is wrong with the cry rooms?) music playing it just doesn’t seem respectful enough.You know:shrug:
I miss my old parish (we moved) it is still very tradtional. Calming and spiritual. You can focus. You can pray the Mass with the father and not hear someone talking about where their going to lunch after Mass.
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fellowChristian
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One more thing— Nothing against children here. We have five. And yes I sat in the Cry Rooms until they were all above the age of 3! Out of respect for others.
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agapewolf
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The hand rolling…that was sign language. It is praying with every sense…the whole body.
Lt was instructed to have a period of silence (not defined) before Mass begins. I practice my band until 15 min until the mass is supposed to start. THey are supposed to have some silence…so this band is not following instructions.
and everyone is singing TOO LOUD? you’ve got to be kidding. First their are threads about Catholics not singing… now we do something that actually gets people to participate and sing loud, and no their are complaints about that. That is the goal, to get people to sing. Obviously it was NOT a concert, if they got the congregation to sing too loud.
All of the complaints I am seeing here (except the one about people singing too loud) have been about mishandled or bad leadership with Masses. This is not LT. … go to them to find out what they recommend and teach.
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Catholig
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My comment isn’t about Life Teen Masses having “bad leadership” it’s about the fact that it seems to disregard tradition. You said a while back something to the effect that if we can’t have praise and worship music it shows that no new artists are being inspired - my reply is why we constantly need new artists. Why can’t simply appreciate the music our ancestors listened to - a form of music ideally suited for the Mass, and indeed created for it. What is wrong with the old that we need to “innovate” or “experiment”?
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kage_ar
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My comments were not directed toward a Mass, but to the LifeNight Meeting program. That is what is dumbed down, pandering, childish, etc.
Skits where someone is dressed as Jesus and He is my buddy we play ball and COLOR together, but then when I grow up, friends come along and want me to go to a party and I leave my Jesus buddy at home. PLEASE (this is an actual lifenight skit - I’ll have to get out my core team book to tell you what the topic was…)
Skits where someone is dressed as Jesus and He is my buddy we play ball and COLOR together, but then when I grow up, friends come along and want me to go to a party and I leave my Jesus buddy at home. PLEASE (this is an actual lifenight skit - I’ll have to get out my core team book to tell you what the topic was…)
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VociMike
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Or maybe he’s inspiring people to write the kind of music the Church has called for, but hardly any priests and music directors are using that new music, preferring instead to use the kind of music that embodies the “ugliness of style, …] distasteful forms of expression, …] uninspired musical texts which are not worthy of the great act that is being celebrated” (quote from Pope John Paul II). Later Benedict XVI added “Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another.”
Obviously John Paul II and Benedict XVI were referring here to some forms of modern music which were being used in enough churches to warrant their corrective comments. They were referring to some forms of music which are popular in churches today, not unpopular. They would not have made their comments if there was not a lot of bad and/or inappropriate music being used at Masses today. But they did make their comments, clearly hoping to fix what they saw as a situation needing fixing. But everybody convinces themselves that these popes were by no means referring to their favorite music - must be somebody else’s favorite music that the popes were criticizing.
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1ke
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Thank you VociMike.
Let me just say: Ditto
Let me just say: Ditto
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thedavidwilson
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I think the standard should be set by what the Mass truly is: An entering into the sacrafice on calvary.
Everytime we attend mass we are entering into Christ being butally mudered for our sins on a cross.
So when choosing a piece of music, action or ring-around-the-rosie routine around the altar ask yourself: Would I do this if my Mother/Wife/Husband/Child was being brutally murdered for something I did (i.e. my sins)?
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GandalfTheWhite
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Didn’t the Holy Father ban guitars from his celebrations? 
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agapewolf
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That is the problem with bad leadership…because it isn’t done well. If it was done well, it would include all ages of music.
And no I did not say that comment about praise and worship, the comment I was remarking on used the word “MODERN”…and did not specify.
I’m not talking about constantly needing new artists, but I think it is way beyond us to say that God is not commissioning people to write music for Mass. And writing music is not “innovation” or “experimentation”
People are equating all sorts of things here which don’t go together.
NopeDidn’t the Holy Father ban guitars from his celebrations?
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PatienceAndLove
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I do believe you, I just have different experience, as do many others on this forum.
I wonder what it is that your diocese does differently that others. If there are training conferences, why are you doing it right and others are not?
Perhaps your diocese, being conservative and all, preaches vocations more. Perhaps you all have more support than others do. I have no idea.
I can only tell you my experience, as you can only tell me yours.
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