Life Teen

[PatienceAndLove]

I’d have to say that my other chief LT complaint is the lack of connection between the readings at Mass and the LT topic of the night. I never heard the leaders discuss the readings with the group, and segway those into the topic. It seemed that the Mass and the meetings stood alone.

Has this changed?

 

[agapewolf]

Patience and LOve please read my thread in “bringing young people back to mass” (or something like that)

I’ll say it again, who made up the rule they have to connect?
RCIA weekly meetings don’t connect, CCD don’t connect…why should the high school program do that?

Our Lifeteen mass is at noon, with our Lifenight in the evening. Its a completely different atmosphere, with some different teens, etc.

Lifeteen does not serve as a CLOW program.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Patience and LOve please read my thread in “bringing young people back to mass” (or something like that)

I’ll say it again, who made up the rule they have to connect?
RCIA weekly meetings don’t connect, CCD don’t connect…why should the high school program do that?

Our Lifeteen mass is at noon, with our Lifenight in the evening. Its a completely different atmosphere, with some different teens, etc.

Lifeteen does not serve as a CLOW program.

What is CLOW?
And I did see, but did not discuss it there because we were told to discuss LT here.

My Youth Group made meeting topics up according to the Mass readings. We read over them again, at the beginning of the meeting, and went from there. Doing this helped me learn a lot more.
Bibles were pulled out for every meeting. As I stated before- that is something I never saw at LT, but that may have changed.

Catechism programs should not stand alone. There should, and needs to be, and active connection with what is going on at Mass and what is being instructed.

And there shouldn’t be only one Catechism night, it should be every meeting night, because the Catechism tells us how we are to live, as good Catholics, not just what we believe. What we believe IS our life.

How often do you refer to the catechism in a meeting? Do you have copies of the Catechism to pull out for meetings? Sadly enough- my youth group did not do much referring to the Catechism, and I have contacted my old youth leaders with that suggestions. I suggested the adult Baltimore Catechism.

 

[Saint_Gemma]

As a youth minister running Life Teen in a parish… i wish to hear from you as to what your thoughts are if you have experienced a Teen mass or life nights? What about the idea of modern praise and worship music in a mass and during the Eucharistic Prayer having youth around the altar?

I am a teenager, and I was attracted to Catholicism by TLMs, not irreverent teen masses.

 

[agapewolf]

CLOW is children’s liturgy of the word

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

How does the fact that people go to mass because of the music not abscure it’s significance?

Well, as I said in the other thread. I’m not a big fan of LT. I’m OKish with the more traditional LT masses with no abuses but if they would ask me to gather around the altar or anything like that I would feel VERY uncomfortable.

But maybe it’s a necessary evil. It might bring people to the Church but at the same time it weakens our traditions, obscures our believes and brings liberalism and modernism into the Church. I’ve posted some horrible examples in the other thread.

The irony of it is that I go to one of these LT masses because they are on campus. I go there mainly because of the accessibility (in fact this year I will there - under the same roof), the great priest, and my friends. Plus we have no other option then to use guitars so it’s very much a matter of what it available. I tolerate it but deep in heart I would love it to become a very traditional mass.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

CLOW is children’s liturgy of the word

Auch, now this should be banned!

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Auch, now this should be banned!

LoL. That is a whole different thread!

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

LoL. That is a whole different thread!

Uuups, I didn’t mean to say banned. I meant punished.

Who is for the good old stake and fire?

 

[dessert]

I’m a teen - and while I have no problem with life night I wouldn’t recommend a “teen mass”. Instead of praise and worship music, try some tradition. Try getting the choir or maybe just one cantor to sing the Kyrie in Greek, the Sanctus in Latin, and the Agnus Dei in Latin. If it is Sunday a Gloria in Latin as well.

You can view the Kyriale Romanum here.

Catholig

I read through your site and blog it is quite impressive! !

I have sent my dh on a search to find that roman 1474 edition of the Roman Missal How interesting. I printed the pages off the site but my color ink is low so will have to do it again later. What a missal, even the directions are in red? I assume. I could even read it a little my Latin is rusty. Your blog is wonderful and informative.
That is interesting what your priest said about private TLM, sort of like an upper room?
Try not to keep such a mix of friends, yes watch out for the games. Try our CAtholic Word ASsociation VII game and since you like to study saints the A -_Z saints game
IMHO
You are an inspiration, go to Marty Barrack site and he is a Hebrew Catholic, he can answer any ? on Hebrew it is an e-mail and since I looked it up last his discussion was still under construction. God Bless Dessert

 

[kage_ar]

And there shouldn’t be only one Catechism night, it should be every meeting night, because the Catechism tells us how we are to live, as good Catholics, not just what we believe. What we believe IS our life.

How often do you refer to the catechism in a meeting? Do you have copies of the Catechism to pull out for meetings? Sadly enough- my youth group did not do much referring to the Catechism, and I have contacted my old youth leaders with that suggestions. I suggested the adult Baltimore Catechism.

In the LifeNight program, each evening has a theme or topic. There is a very complete lesson plan. The night starts with an icebreaker, a skit (it is all scripted with stage directions and lines), and/or a game.

There will be a “speaker”, the program provides a detailed guildline for the talk - this inculdes scripture and CCC referneces quited exactly. The actual talks are good -

There will be small group discussions, maybe an exercise, and a time of prayer or reflection.

Even the music selection suggestions are part of the program lesson plan.

So - yes, what I have seen of LifeNight there are direct CCC links.

 

[palmas85]

Teens around the altar is now moot anyway, however, I would like to clear something up.

The original thought of bringing teens around the altar during the lifeteen mass was not a gimick. The idea was that they were “ministers” at the mass in much the same way as a lay lector, server, or a bride/groom are when they are set apart and closer to the altar. The ministry they did was by their participation, their closeness (visually and hopefully spiritually), their reverence would minister to the folks in the pews…especially their parents. What parent wouldn’t be moved and effected by seeing their teen in close proximity to the altar in prayer?

I’m not defending it to the fact that it was 100% correct, or smart to do, but just trying to put out some understanding. The original act of gathering the teens around the altar was not an attempt to be disobedient or lessening the role of the priest.

When the new GIRM came out, Cardinal Arinze had talks with the lifeteen leaders about this action. He told them that they could apply for an indult to continue the practice, but asked them not to, mostly because of the attitudes of people that don’t understand it. They immediately and graciously agreed and stopped the practice. (Lifeteen sent out a letter and video to all parishes instructing them to stop the practice).

I am heartened to hear that they graciously and immediately agreed to stop the practice.

Of course reality does butt its ugly head into things from time to time and I am here to assure you, ringing the alter is still done, done often and really hasn’t slowed down much. The music is just as loud, just as meaningless as always and the whole thing often resembles nothing more than a mini-rave with slight, very slight liturgical overtones.

I’ve heard often of this letter and video that was allegedly sent out. Unfortunately, no one has either of them, no one knows exactly when they were sent out, at least no one on this forum that I’ve seen, and many if not most Life Teen programs continue on encouraging the ringing of the altar so that all can share in the ministry .

Actually, I went for catechist re-certification last year and we were told by the Pastor, a big Life Teen supporter by the way that we should encourage these things in our classes and not be dissuaded by how did he word it, pre Vatican II ideas and concepts?

But I will grant that there may very well be reverent Life Teen Masses somewhere or another. In fact, I don’t see how it could be any other way. My question though is this. If a Life Teen Mass does not follow what many if not most Life Teen Masses do, IE: loud music, charismatic clapping and swaying, ringing the altar, self communication and passing the Chalice from person to person, and banal inane skits instead of a homily, then how are they different than any other Mass? AND, more importantly, should they still even be considered Life Teen Masses ?

 

[agapewolf]

I am heartened to hear that they graciously and immediately agreed to stop the practice.

Of course reality does butt its ugly head into things from time to time and I am here to assure you, ringing the alter is still done, done often and really hasn’t slowed down much. The music is just as loud, just as meaningless as always and the whole thing often resembles nothing more than a mini-rave with slight, very slight liturgical overtones.

I’ve heard often of this letter and video that was allegedly sent out. Unfortunately, no one has either of them, no one knows exactly when they were sent out, at least no one on this forum that I’ve seen, and many if not most Life Teen programs continue on encouraging the ringing of the altar so that all can share in the ministry .

Actually, I went for catechist re-certification last year and we were told by the Pastor, a big Life Teen supporter by the way that we should encourage these things in our classes and not be dissuaded by how did he word it, pre Vatican II ideas and concepts?

But I will grant that there may very well be reverent Life Teen Masses somewhere or another. In fact, I don’t see how it could be any other way. My question though is this. If a Life Teen Mass does not follow what many if not most Life Teen Masses do, IE: loud music, charismatic clapping and swaying, ringing the altar, self communication and passing the Chalice from person to person, and banal inane skits instead of a homily, then how are they different than any other Mass? AND, more importantly, should they still even be considered Life Teen Masses ?

Exactly how many lifeteen parishes have you been to to say “many if not most” so much? Do youknow that there are
1080 parishes around the globe? have you been to many/most of those? Hardly.

They’ve stopped gathering around the altar everywhere in my diocese, except one parish, who doesn’t call themselves “lifeteen” (althought they still do subscribe to the curriculum)

In AZ, i’ve heard most if not all have stopped…same as texas, atlanta, and many other areas of the country. How do I know this? I have attended many conferences and talk to the ministers.

Apparently, your attendance is quite limited to a small number of parishes…or even more than one I wonder?

Self communicating is NOT part of lifeteen, don’t label it, same with passing the chalice.

The charismatic movement is a valid part of the church, so labeling that in such a negative way does not prove your point.

and who says reverent has to equal quiet? It doesn’t. Some organs are built to shake the walls of the church. So loud music is an ok thing, AS LONG AS isn’t a performance…but to aid in the prayer and participation of the congregation.

The letter and video DID come out when the new GIRM took affect. We still have it in our library, (its on one of the subscription service DVD’s). Contact the LIFETEEN office yourself if you want such prove…but please do not say “allegedly”

 

[Hegesippus]

Patience and LOve please read my thread in “bringing young people back to mass” (or something like that)

I’ll say it again, who made up the rule they have to connect?
RCIA weekly meetings don’t connect, CCD don’t connect…why should the high school program do that?

Our Lifeteen mass is at noon, with our Lifenight in the evening. Its a completely different atmosphere, with some different teens, etc.

Lifeteen does not serve as a CLOW program.

Agape,

You mentioned that Cardinal Arinze told LT that they could get an indult for their practice of being around the altar. Could you provide documentation because what I remember from that interaction was a stern no go on gathering around the altar

 

[dessert]

I’m a teen - and while I have no problem with life night I wouldn’t recommend a “teen mass”. Instead of praise and worship music, try some tradition. Try getting the choir or maybe just one cantor to sing the Kyrie in Greek, the Sanctus in Latin, and the Agnus Dei in Latin. If it is Sunday a Gloria in Latin as well.

You can view the Kyriale Romanum here.

Catholig

My dh and I looked up the missal and it is a teaching missal but he couldn’t find that exact one.
He thinks the red words are actually italian or spanish?

I tend to agree with the italian, instructions and all the rest are a mix about what to do for the mass. Interesting to say the least.
maybe someone else can go on your blog and let us know.
Dessert

 

[agapewolf]

Agape,

You mentioned that Cardinal Arinze told LT that they could get an indult for their practice of being around the altar. Could you provide documentation because what I remember from that interaction was a stern no go on gathering around the altar

There were many meetings the LT leaders had with Card Arinze at the time of the new GIRM. Of course there wouldn’t be documentation of the preliminary discussion.

I know this story because of the conferences I have attended and been given by multiple leaders of LT on how the decisions were made. I’m sure someone here will accuse them now of lying, but I hardly think so. They have no reason to.

The 3 things they told LT to do was this:
-Teens not to gather around the altar (after discussions)
-Keep the text of the end of the Mass the same as written in the Missal
-have at least a moment of silence before Mass begins

What interaction are you refering to? what you heard from someone else who just like about everyone here hates LT so much they will paint it in the most negative light?

 

[Hegesippus]

There were many meetings the LT leaders had with Card Arinze at the time of the new GIRM. Of course there wouldn’t be documentation of the preliminary discussion.

I know this story because of the conferences I have attended and been given by multiple leaders of LT on how the decisions were made. I’m sure someone here will accuse them now of lying, but I hardly think so. They have no reason to.

The 3 things they told LT to do was this:
-Teens not to gather around the altar (after discussions)
-Keep the text of the end of the Mass the same as written in the Missal
-have at least a moment of silence before Mass begins

What interaction are you refering to? what you heard from someone else who just like about everyone here hates LT so much they will paint it in the most negative light?

I read the documents that forbid gathering around the altar as well as some of his own words. Ill try to find it, but going on a retreat in a few hours I will not have access to a comp for a few days.

 

[agapewolf]

I read the documents that forbid gathering around the altar as well as some of his own words. Ill try to find it, but going on a retreat in a few hours I will not have access to a comp for a few days.

I’m not debating that the altar gathering was stopped as an end result. I’m talking about amidst the discussions regarding it.
It is no longer an open indult issue, this all happened way back when the new GIRM was coming out.

 

[Cat]

agapewolf and I must live in the same city!

Our Life Teen Mass is wonderful. I don’t usually attend, but when I do, it is absolutely packed (around 700 people or so), with standing room only. Many of the attendees are the middle aged and elderly.

We actually have a surplus of vocations in our diocese. One of the teens that was playing keyboards at LT a few years ago is in a cloistered contemplative convent today. While she was growing up, she was such an example of reverence and holiness to all of us.

I attend Adoration several times a week, and almost always, a teenager is prostrate before Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. IMO, some of the most reverent people in our parish are our LT kids.

Hundreds of kids are involved in LT in our parish, and what’s really special is that this program attracts non-Catholics, including many Protestants, who end up learning about the True Church of Jesus Christ and the Sacraments.

One of the things that makes a difference in our city is the presence of two other non-ecclesial Christian communities that offer gigantic and very attractive youth ministries:

1. Cross Current is sponsored by the large Assemblies of God church in our city, and attracts over a thousand teenagers every Wednesday night. Many of those who attend are Catholic. Music (rock), fellowship, and dynamic teaching from various youth ministers are offered.
2. A large megachurch, a church-plant of nearby Willowcreek. This megachurch attracts several thousand visitors and inquirers every weekend, including many teenagers.

So our Catholic parishes have some major honkin’ “competition!” I think that the Life Teen program has met the competition headon and is helping to keep our Catholic teenagers in the Church and is also reaching out and evangelizing non-Catholic teenagers.

When it comes to tradition, I don’t think LT discourages tradition. There is a TLM in our city, and there are teenagers who attend. Not as many attend TLM as attend LT. But the choice is there, and the LT sponsors don’t cut down or belittle tradition of the Church, but instead, they honor it.

The Lord said that if it is not against us, it’s for us. LT may not be right for you or for your children, but it’s right for a lot of Catholic families.

 

[agapewolf]

just a little south of you, CAT…I’m in St. Louis

but we have a music leader here that came from your neck of the woods.