Life Teen

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the facts:
n May of 2002, Msgr. Dale Fushek disclosed to his congregation, that in 1995, the Catholic Diocese of Phoenix had settled a sexual harassment suit that had been filed against him by a former LIFE TEEN staff member.[4]

In April of 2004, the newly installed Bishop Thomas Olmsted, who replaced Bishop Thomas O’Brien after his conviction and resignation for a fatal hit-and-run accident[5], accepted Msgr. Fushek’s resignation from his position as Vicar General.

In late December of 2004, additional complaints against Monsignor Fushek emerged and the Diocese began to conduct an investigation. Msgr. Fushek was placed on paid administrative leave shortly thereafter.[6]

On January 27, 2005, a lawsuit was filed in Maricopa County Superior Court alleging that then-Fr. Fushek witnessed the sexual assault of another, by a priest, and did nothing.[7]

On April 4, 2005, Msgr. Fushek resigned as a pastor for St. Timothy’s Catholic Church.[8]

On November 21, 2005, Dale Fushek was arrested and charged with 10 criminal misdemeanor counts related to alleged inappropriate sexual contact with teens and young adults.[9] Maricopa County Prosecutors have not ruled out the possibility of more serious charges.[10] On May 22, 2006, three of the 10 misdemeanor counts were dismissed at the request of the prosecution. [11]

On December 5, 2006, the lawsuit filed on January 27, 2005, was settled by the Diocese of Phoenix for $100,000. The settlement does not imply any admission of guilt, according to the Diocesan attorney Mike Haran. [12] The case was dismissed with prejudice, which means it cannot be refiled. [13]
 
Unbelievable…

so according to you, we should say that the church is not good because of sexual abuse of some priests.

This holds no water…

and by the way …did you see the dismissals of the cases?

the lawsuits that were filed named lifeteen, for a time that lifeteen wasn’t even in existence yet. They names EVERYONE, and it was dropped, against everyone.

ANything that is successful will have attacks from satan.
 
If you read my past posts, you will see that they are.

THey are also an official private association of the lay faithful
 
agapewolf said:
Exactly how many lifeteen parishes have you been to to say “many if not most” so much? Do youknow that there are
1080 parishes around the globe? have you been to many/most of those? Hardly.

They’ve stopped gathering around the altar everywhere in my diocese, except one parish, who doesn’t call themselves “lifeteen” (althought they still do subscribe to the curriculum)

In AZ, i’ve heard most if not all have stopped…same as texas, atlanta, and many other areas of the country. How do I know this? I have attended many conferences and talk to the ministers.

Apparently, your attendance is quite limited to a small number of parishes…or even more than one I wonder?

Self communicating is NOT part of lifeteen, don’t label it, same with passing the chalice.

The charismatic movement is a valid part of the church, so labeling that in such a negative way does not prove your point.

and who says reverent has to equal quiet? It doesn’t. Some organs are built to shake the walls of the church. So loud music is an ok thing, AS LONG AS isn’t a performance…but to aid in the prayer and participation of the congregation.

The letter and video DID come out when the new GIRM took affect. We still have it in our library, (its on one of the subscription service DVD’s). Contact the LIFETEEN office yourself if you want such prove…but please do not say “allegedly”
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Over the years, as I am in my golden years right now I would say that I have been to around 100 or so different parishes in both the US and abroad that had Life Teen activities of one sort or another. Since they all seemed to be basically the same, you’ll forgive me if it seems that all are basically the same.🙂

And yes, self communication and passing of the Chalice did seem to be an integral part of these festivities.

I would think that since you don’t know me, you should perhaps refrain from saying where I have been what I have done and more importantly what I have seen. I do not speak about things that I do not have at least a passing knowledge of.

Since you have this alleged document or access to it, and yes, I will call it alleged as no one that I have run into can produce it or even provide a link to where it is, I would assume you can either provide a copy or at least a link to where we may find it. If you can do so, I would appreciate it, and I in turn will copy it and forward it to the approximately 15 parishes I have been to in the past six months that have these little events, and in which things occurred exactly as I have stated.

You see since retiring, I have little to do except meander around to different parishes and sample the waters so to speak. Coming from a Law Enforcement background, I really don’t believe what people say as much as what hard evidence proves as people tend to support their own views when they speak.

And since I did not attack you in anyway, merely laughed at the rather naive statement that the offending parties immediately and graciously stopped, I don’t see why you got so hostile.

Uncalled for hostility is quite often a sign of covering something up or of attempting to distract attention from a certain area… That is one of the little things that I learned doing interrogations and interviews over the years…

Besides that I didn’t attack Life Teen specifically. I pointed out the abuses that I have seen, still do see and in all likelihood will continue to see over the years.

As far as loud music goes you are quite right. A booming organ can certainly rattle the walls,. And if in so doing, a singer belts something akin to this gem I heard the other night

"Jesus is my homie oh yeah oh yeah, Jesus is my homie he stand behind me"

I will complain about it as well.

Best wishes.

PS by the way, in several posts you allude to the fact that you know something because you heard about it from someone else who was there. That is what is called heresay. Saying that you know something to be true because you have third or fourth hand testimony from those with a vested interest in a particular outcome is generally considered to be less than convincing.
 
So what’s my point? While I think the so called life-teen masses might draw in young people, I don’t think we should have such masses. I think they generally have a negative effect on the people. I would much more prefer good education and thus making sure that by the time a child grows up, they will understand all about mass, the importance of it and the reason why masses are not a social gathering of people to generally have a good time (well, they should have a good time but for an entirely different reason).

50 years ago we didn’t need life-teen masses, why do we need them now?

In Christ,
~G

In todays world we have young people looking for answers more now then when they had 50 years ago. How do I know this I was a youth leader in my church and we went from 5 to 40 young people by doing youth services and even having a youth lead service where the young people even gave a message. I am proud to say that in my years of service to my Lord Jesus Christ I trust what he has given me and the path that he has showed. I know that young people want to belong to somewhere and that they need someone to count on. A physical person that is where the youth masses and services come in. I know it sounds like a crazy idea but dont question a work that God does to bring His children to Him.
In God I Trust
M
 
I do a lot of work with teenagers.

I think we always have to be careful not to ascribe to all teens the traits of those young people that we associate with.

Here is an example:

Much of the work I do with teens is artistic; I do a lot of accompanying work for various musical venues.

It would be real easy for me to assume that all kids enjoy music, drama, and dance. In reality, many of these kids are the “nerds” in their school and everyone thinks the guys are “gay.”

Along these lines, it is very easy for me to assume that all teenagers like opera, Broadway, classical music, dance music, etc. In reality, many teenagers will not listen to anything except rock.

Here is another example:

My kids attended a private secular prep school, and I have remained involved in that school. Many of the kids in that school are quite brilliant. I have often made the mistake of assuming that all teenagers enjoy deep discussions and are interested in volunteering and helping their world. In reality, many teenagers are quite under-educated and really don’t give a hoot what happens to the poor and the helpless.

Third example:

My kids were figure skaters, very interested in their health and fitness along with all their friends in the rink. In reality, many teenagers don’t care about their bodies and hate exercise other than video gaming.

Fourth example:

My kids were obedient and delightful. Unfortunately, this is not the norm, even in Christian families. Many kids are rebellious, defiant, and involved in drugs, alcohol, and sex. Sad, sad, but true.

Conclusion:

If you are involved with a family/group of teenagers who enjoys tradition and culture, please don’t assume that all teenagers are the same way. I hate to tell you what some kids think of tradition.

We really can’t lump teenagers into a group. Each teenager is different. But they all need love. And that’s why I originally posted that love will bring teenagers back to Mass, and I stand by that post.

I agree about catechesis, but the problem is, How do you get the kids to COME to the catechesis? If they don’t come to Mass, which includes the presence of the dear Lord Jesus Himself, why would teenagers come to a “class” with a “lecture” and “possible homework?”

Perhaps some of you think that if the catechesis started earlier, they would stay. I think you are naive. Many wonderful children undergo a “crisis of faith” and depart from their church, often around 8th grade. Parents can force the kid to come to church, but this doesn’t always work in real life. Eventually the teen is so out of control that Mom and Dad can’t “force” him or her to do anything anymore.

Surely you all know families like this? Surely you all know parents who did everything right, and yet their teenagers are a disaster? Surely you all know families where the kids received excellent catechesis from parents, school, and church, and yet, the kids don’t attend Mass and can’t be made to go to Mass?

And you say that TLM and education classes will bring these kids back to Mass? With all due respect, I believe you are dreaming.

Like I said in an earlier post, this is a war. Whatever it takes, as long as the Vatican is OK with it. If TLM will do it, fine. But in our city, we’ve had TLM for years, and the young people aren’t beating down the door to attend. Some do, but most don’t.

These kids need a lot of prayer and fasting, not just from their parents. These are very hurting families, and I am not surprised that we haven’t heard from any of these parents yet. It hurts to have your kids estranged from the Mass, and I’m sure many of these parents would willingly go to hell and back if it would help their kids to return to God.
 
“Modern” music, as in the current Praise and Worship, clap your hands and rock on! type music is totally inappropriate for Mass. Many of the songs are actually downright heretical. It has no place in a Catholic Mass. Besides which, music in Mass is meant to be played on an organ, not a 5-piece drum set and electric guitar!

Life Teen Mass - a weekly concert held to make other people feel good that at least the kids are there! I can’t believe that these children will continue coming to “real” Mass once they outgrow LT. They will not have learned about the quiet, holy, sacred, and reverential posture expected at Mass. If I am wrong, I would like to be directed to some statistics (not opinion, please.)
 
Palmas,
I was not hostile in anyway, not trying to hide anything, and it was NOT a naive statement to say that people have stopped these practices. They have…all around me, as I stated before. In my diocese, I play piano for the masses. I know a few bishops in other locations, its not heresay, its truth,. Because you see people not stopping them, do not blame lifeteen for it. If you do, go to the source and ask them what they say.

As I said, CALL lifeteen, and they will give you the info you need. I’m giving you the source itself. There are no links, this video is not online. www.lifeteen.com will give you the contact info you need.

If you don’t call, then you really don’t want the info, you just want to accuse me of making it up.

I did not say where you have been, I merely ASKED where you have been.

I’m sorry you heard that song…if it was at Mass (actually, anywhere)

IF youhave such a problem with lifeteen, why have you been to 15 different ones in 6 months?

You are misunderstanding me, I’m not stating that you haven’t seen these abuses, I’m saying, that under the Lifeteen name, they are not allowed, so reporting it as a Lifeteen practice is slander, GO TO THE SOURCE.

Just as you wouldn’t want people to form opinions of the catholic church from scandalous priests, people who preach heresy, or others that don’t live out the teaching, the same applies here.
 
Agapewolf -

The LT Mass issues aside, for Life Nights - do your teens participate there? Have you modified the “cheesy” skits? If not, what is the age range that is coming and how do you get highschoolers not to be turned off by the games and skits?
 
agapewolf said:
Palmas,
I was not hostile in anyway, not trying to hide anything, and it was NOT a naive statement to say that people have stopped these practices. They have…all around me, as I stated before. In my diocese, I play piano for the masses. I know a few bishops in other locations, its not heresay, its truth,. Because you see people not stopping them, do not blame lifeteen for it. If you do, go to the source and ask them what they say.

As I said, CALL lifeteen, and they will give you the info you need. I’m giving you the source itself. There are no links, this video is not online. www.lifeteen.com will give you the contact info you need.

If you don’t call, then you really don’t want the info, you just want to accuse me of making it up.

I did not say where you have been, I merely ASKED where you have been.

I’m sorry you heard that song…if it was at Mass (actually, anywhere)

IF youhave such a problem with lifeteen, why have you been to 15 different ones in 6 months?

You are misunderstanding me, I’m not stating that you haven’t seen these abuses, I’m saying, that under the Lifeteen name, they are not allowed, so reporting it as a Lifeteen practice is slander, GO TO THE SOURCE.

Just as you wouldn’t want people to form opinions of the catholic church from scandalous priests, people who preach heresy, or others that don’t live out the teaching, the same applies here.
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Since the functions are indeed Life Teen functions who am I supposed to blame if not Life Teen? They or people acting in their name put these things on. They must be held accountable for them. Who else could be?

I go to these Masses in order to see for myself what is actually happening, so as not to rely on second or third hand information as many apparently do. If I see something at a Life Teen function, then it is not slander to report it. as long as I report it factually. Also, why shouldn’t I go? I am a life long Catholic. I should be able to hear Mass whenever one is celebrated. In fact. I have an absolute right to do so. More than that, I also have the absolute and unquestionable right to expect that such Masses will follow the rules and guidelines as laid down by the Church.

I somehow did not think you would provide me with either a copy of this** alleged** letter or video, in much the same way no one else has been able to. However, I figured that since you seemed so positive they do exist that you might actually have access to them.🙂

I’m sorry I heard the song also. It is not the only one, but one of the more blatant that gets sung at these things.

Hey, no hard feelings. You support this program based on your experience.👍 Fine. Based on my experience I cannot. 👍

I will continue to seek the **alleged **memorandum and video that you and others loudly proclaim is there.

You are quite correct. I do not want people to form opinions based on things that are not true, Unfortunately, the abuses at Life Teen that I report are true, have happened, still happen and if history is any indication of behavior, will continue to happen.
 
You missed my point about opinions. Even though we do have scandals in the Church, that ARE true, you wouldn’t want someone’s opinion of the WHOLE church based on that. Same thing with Lifeteen. There are abuses, sometimes involved with lifeteen, but largely elsewhere as well. DOn’t blame lifeteen for them, go to the source. Its not just at Lifeteen you will see abuses…you can read about them all over this forum.

I told you before, there is no online link to this video or letter. Just because of this fact does not make it a non-existent “piece of evidence”. I have no way of putting it online. It is not my responsibility to either. If you want the info, go get it yourself from the source. At lifeteen.

Your posts are extremely patronizing, with the bolding of the “alleged” word that you know bothers me, as well as saying “i somehow did not think you would provide…”

I ALREADY provided the way to get access to the video. Go get it yourself
 
kage_ar said:
Agapewolf -

The LT Mass issues aside, for Life Nights - do your teens participate there? Have you modified the “cheesy” skits? If not, what is the age range that is coming and how do you get highschoolers not to be turned off by the games and skits?
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Yes our teens come to lifenights. All ages of high school teens come. We have up to 50 at the lifenights. about 150 involved in all different aspects of our ministry.

A neighboring parish has 100-150 at their lifenights.

Some of the skits are juvenile, agreed. But some are meant to be cheesy for the satire. THese skits are not just made up and sent out, they have been used successfully at one location or another before sent out.
If you follow a lifenight word for word, that’s not the best way to go about it, (and even lifeteen says don’t do that).
It’s merely a springboard for brainstorming ideas…add/delete stuff from the skits, make it your own to fit the skills of your core team. The CCC numbers and scripture references are all there to make the teaching more substantial.
 
agapewolf said:
You missed my point about opinions. Even though we do have scandals in the Church, that ARE true, you wouldn’t want someone’s opinion of the WHOLE church based on that. Same thing with Lifeteen. There are abuses, sometimes involved with lifeteen, but largely elsewhere as well. DOn’t blame lifeteen for them, go to the source. Its not just at Lifeteen you will see abuses…you can read about them all over this forum.

I told you before, there is no online link to this video or letter. Just because of this fact does not make it a non-existent “piece of evidence”. I have no way of putting it online. It is not my responsibility to either. If you want the info, go get it yourself from the source. At lifeteen.

Your posts are extremely patronizing, with the bolding of the “alleged” word that you know bothers me, as well as saying “i somehow did not think you would provide…”

I ALREADY provided the way to get access to the video. Go get it yourself
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I didn’t think you would and you did not. So I am not at all surprised. It remains an alleged thing, this mysterious letter and video that so many here have spoken of but seemingly always in a third hand way, why I know someone who has a friend who has seen it.

Patronizing:eek: , not at all my friend, just secure in the belief that not only would you not produce anything of value but also in your very defensive reaction and hostility towards me because I don’t happen to share your love for the thing called Life Teen.👍 Besides, why would the use of the word alleged bother you at all. You obviously haven’t seen the video either and I doubt that you have read the memo as well, if either of them actually exist that is.

I will continue to view this video and memo as alleged. You brought the issue up, not me. You placed a great deal of importance on this issue, not me. You should not bring up things that you cannot back up.

The truth is, I really don’t care if there is a memo or 100 memos, a video or a major league full blown theatrical production. The people at the local level in Life Teen are going to do as they darn well please regardless of what the “official” position of the organization is.

And that my friend is the real problem with the whole thing.
 
HOW DARE YOU say that I haven’t viewed the video. I can tell you it came out the fall that the GIRM changed. I watched it at the hub parish in my city, as well as my parish. It is of the founder speaking about it, for about 5 min.

It exists. Yours is the most absolute arrogant post I have ever seen.

I have absolutely NO WAY of providing it for you.I work fort the church, I’m sorry I don’t have the money to buy the technology to post it online, I’m sure its copyrighted anyway so it would be illegal.
If you want it so bad…as you said before that you would continue to seek for it, then go to the source. It is there. Call lifeteen. Don’t you dare accuse me of not having seen it, when you won’t even go to the place that can provide it for you. This is your responsibility to do this, not mine. I told you how you can get it. You shouldn’t want to get it 3rd hand anyway. I HAVE seen it myself, along with hundreds that were in the parish that day, along with the staff at my own parish,.

It is so obvious that you are the hostile one by saying such things.

How dare you…thats all i have to say. its pretty pathetic. You are patronizing, not becuase you don’t like lifeteen…that is a fair opinion, but I said before the statements that were patronizing, yet you are not backing your statements up as not being patronizing…you switched the subject to opinion about lifeteen.

Yes, it is a problem with abuses, ANYWHERE…but do not blame lifeten for them. As I said before, our Church has people that are acting in scandalous ways, yet we don’t blame the whole church for them. I will not continue such a discussion with someone such as this.
 
ONE TIME NOTICE:

The poster(s) who continues to engage in the personalization of responses - who cannot keep their discussion to one of civility and courtesy may well have a late summer vacation in their future.

Please address content not other posters.
 
agapewolf said:
HOW DARE YOU say that I haven’t viewed the video. I can tell you it came out the fall that the GIRM changed. I watched it at the hub parish in my city, as well as my parish. It is of the founder speaking about it, for about 5 min.

It exists. Yours is the most absolute arrogant post I have ever seen.

I have absolutely NO WAY of providing it for you.I work fort the church, I’m sorry I don’t have the money to buy the technology to post it online, I’m sure its copyrighted anyway so it would be illegal.
If you want it so bad…as you said before that you would continue to seek for it, then go to the source. It is there. Call lifeteen. Don’t you dare accuse me of not having seen it, when you won’t even go to the place that can provide it for you. This is your responsibility to do this, not mine. I told you how you can get it. You shouldn’t want to get it 3rd hand anyway. I HAVE seen it myself, along with hundreds that were in the parish that day, along with the staff at my own parish,.

It is so obvious that you are the hostile one by saying such things.

How dare you…thats all i have to say. its pretty pathetic. You are patronizing, not becuase you don’t like lifeteen…that is a fair opinion, but I said before the statements that were patronizing, yet you are not backing your statements up as not being patronizing…you switched the subject to opinion about lifeteen.

Yes, it is a problem with abuses, ANYWHERE…but do not blame lifeten for them. As I said before, our Church has people that are acting in scandalous ways, yet we don’t blame the whole church for them. I will not continue such a discussion with someone such as this.
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As I said, you should not bring things up that you cannot back up.

As far as Life Teen, maybe it started off as a good idea, who knows. Somewhere along the line though it morphed into something entirely different

Hey if you saw the video great. As far as I can determine you are just about the only one that actually has, or at least who admits to it.

We don’t agree, but I never attacked you personally as you have attacked me. Funny about that. I bring up things that many people have noticed, many people have commented on and you attack me personally instead of addressing those issues.

Of course, many react the same way when they really have no defense.

Its not only that I don’t like Life Teen, I can live with it, but I see no need for it and less for those who use it as a vehicle of some sort to promote their own agendas, which many do.

Oh, by the way, I did find at least a summary of the letter written in 2005. It was sent by Msgr. Dale Fushek, founder and director of Life Teen, regarding a June meeting that Bishop Olmsted of Phoenix had with Cardinal Arinze [head of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments] specifically about the program.

, the letter states:

As the founder of this youth movement, I am writing to confirm our adherence to the new GIRM, and as always, our obedience to our own local Bishops. In this spirit of obedience, we are asking all parishes that implement the LIFE TEEN model to make the following changes:
NOTE THE WORD ASKING NOT DIRECTING
Code: 
    1. In accordance with the new GIRM, teens are no longer to enter the sanctuary for the Eucharistic prayer. Being in the sanctuary is to be reserved for the priest celebrant, concelebrants, and those performing a specific ministry.
STILL BEING DONE AND DONE OFTEN
  1. The GIRM very specifically offers three options for the end of the Mass. We are to cease using the phrase “The Mass Never Ends, It Must Be Lived” and begin using one of the three prescribed endings found in the Missal.
    DONE AT EVERY LIFETEEN MASS I’VE SEEN
  2. After music practice or welcoming, please make sure there is a period of silence to begin the liturgical celebration.
    NEVER SAW THIS ONE TAKE PLACE AT ALL
  3. As we have always taught, please make sure the music does not in any way detract from the action at the altar, ambo, or chair.
    :rotfl: NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS ONE
  4. Please make sure that full implementation of the GIRM is done in accordance with your Diocese and accomplished with a spirit of joy.
    **
    THE FOLLOWING IS THE PART THAT GOT ME**
I am sure these issues will be hard on some parishes and teens. But, let me assure you, our cooperation with Rome and the BCL will only enhance our liturgical celebrations and our mission in the Church. It will be essential that we catechize our teens and their families on what we are doing, and why we are doing it.

This perfectly illustrates the problem that is created when individuals diverge from Church law and or teaching as Life Teen apparently did and continues to do, especially when the decision whether or not to abide by the GIRM is apparently being left to the discretion of the local ministers.
 
Palmas, I did not attack you. You said I haven’t seen the video and I have. You would have no idea about the truth of the matter, so that is a statement that you cannot back up. I was talking about the way you were talking to me, not you personally.

My defense is the fact that the memo and video exist, and as you see here, now you have proof of the memo. I Do have a defense, so your attack is unfounded.

I’m sure the observations you say you have made are true. There are abuses everywhere.

But I can tell you as I have before, we stopped the respective practices, around me…joyfully.I know of many locations for a fact, that they have. I just went to one in another state last month.
 
What I don’t understand is why people go to Masses they know in advance they won’t like, even if Jesus Himself appears–wait, He does appear.

:confused:

The Catholic Church has approved of Life Teen in many dioceses. Isn’t that enough? Why are people taking it upon themselves to try to prove the Catholic Church wrong?

Unless we are on the hired staff of the Catholic church, it is not the place of laypeople like us to go touring and look for reasons that the Church made the wrong decision about Life Teen.

And isn’t the basic purpose of going to Mass to receive Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament? Why deliberately search for Masses that will diminish your joy in the Eucharist?

I find this need to “witch hunt” disturbing and pathetic and just plain evil because it doesn’t seem to flow from a love for others, which Jesus said is one of the greatest commandments.

Why not use a compulsive desire to right wrongs to do something truly good? e.g. Fight against your local abortion mill, or ensure that the poor and hungry in your city have enough food and other basic needs.

A city divided against itself will fall. I don’t think it is good for the Catholic Church for its members to keep up a campaign of seeking out abuses and then bringing them to a public online forum. If you have legitimate complaints about Life Teen (other than “I don’t like the loud rock music!” which is just your opinion), keep your complaints to yourself and don’t gossip, especially in an Open Forum frequented by thousands of readers who probably don’t have your spiritual insight. Instead, appeal to those in authority (the diocese) who do have the power to stop any genuine abuses in your local Life Teen Mass.

I would be curious to know if people who believe that Life Teen is abusive have appealed to their Bishop, and what the results of the complaint were. Did the Bishop vindicate the complaint and put a stop to the abuse? Or did the Bishop advise you to “back off?” Thanks.
 
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