Life Teen

[Philothea53]

Unless we are on the hired staff of the Catholic church…

I have such a problem with this statement. I have read it as part of responses on other threads also. Since when does the Church belong only to those who are paid to run the day to day? If the Church belongs to us all, and I believe She does, does that mean that we just accept whatever is said always? Do we not have a right, an obligation, as members, to voice opinion, point out abuse and ask for changes to be made when we see wrong? Even our blessed Priests, Bishops and religious are capable of bad decisions at times. With utmost respect we must point out errors. And where better to figure out if a bad decision has been made before speaking to our Priests, than on an anonymous, safe Forum, such as Catholic Answers?

 

[Cat]

Philothea53, I agree that if our own beloved parish is manifesting abuses during the Mass, yes, it is right bring it up to the proper authority (the parish pastor to begin with). I have seen it in writing that the faithful have a “right” to a proper Mass, free of abuse.

What I object to is someone who travels from parish to parish and deliberately seeks out and attends Masses that he/she knows he/she does not like. That seems like something that should be the job of the hired staff of the diocese.

I realize that there are people who travel extensively and have no choice but to attend a different parish every week for Mass. Well, then why can’t these people look for a Mass that says, “Traditional NO” or even better, TLM?

Mass times are online, along with phone numbers of the parishes in all the cities. Why not take a few minutes during the week to call the parishes you wish to visit and ask, “Do you offer a Mass that has hymns and more traditional settings, rather than a contemporary Mass?”

 

[palmas85]

Palmas, I did not attack you. You said I haven’t seen the video and I have. You would have no idea about the truth of the matter, so that is a statement that you cannot back up. I was talking about the way you were talking to me, not you personally.

My defense is the fact that the memo and video exist, and as you see here, now you have proof of the memo. I Do have a defense, so your attack is unfounded.

I’m sure the observations you say you have made are true. There are abuses everywhere.

But I can tell you as I have before, we stopped the respective practices, around me…joyfully.I know of many locations for a fact, that they have. I just went to one in another state last month.

If that is the case, I am glad. As I said in my initial post I am sure there are reverent Life Teen events. That however does not change the fact that the overwhelming majority of these things continue on their merry way in defiance of the memo sent out by the founder.

It also troubles me that reining in the abuses as the memo sought to do, would be viewed as a hardship for the parishes and for the teens involved. If that is indeed the case it proves my point about these things completely.

Many people involved come primarily for the novelty of the event and not for the celebration of the Mass itself. The Mass itself becomes secondary to the staging and performance of the event

To answer those who feel that it is somehow wrong to travel from Mass to Mass to see what happens at them, I can say only this. I saw what happened to the Church after Vatican II when people by and large sat back and let things go whichever direction the winds blew. It resulted in confusion, discord and a traumatization from which the Church has yet to recover. Unless someone comes forward to report on the abuses, factually, then the only ones who will know are those who commit them , approve of them, are afraid to do anything about them or think the abuses are what the Church actually teaches.

The apparent prevailing belief that as long as something calls itself Catholic everything is fine, is I feel, just plain wrong.

The fact that in the case of Life Teen the abuses were so great, so ingrained and so common that its founder had to take the highly unusual step of sending out correspondence on them speaks volumes. You will note that the memo was not written willingly, but came about after meetings with Cardinal Arinze and it merely requested that the offending groups conform to Liturgical guidelines and stop their rampant abuses. Overall, it was not successful.

Believe me, the abuses continue, are prevalent and worse than ever, in complete and open defiance of what the organizational offices of Life Teen requested

 

[agapewolf]

If that is the case, I am glad. As I said in my initial post I am sure there are reverent Life Teen events. That however does not change the fact that the overwhelming majority of these things continue on their merry way in defiance of the memo sent out by the founder.

It also troubles me that reining in the abuses as the memo sought to do, would be viewed as a hardship for the parishes and for the teens involved. If that is indeed the case it proves my point about these things completely.

Many people involved come primarily for the novelty of the event and not for the celebration of the Mass itself. The Mass itself becomes secondary to the staging and performance of the event

To answer those who feel that it is somehow wrong to travel from Mass to Mass to see what happens at them, I can say only this. I saw what happened to the Church after Vatican II when people by and large sat back and let things go whichever direction the winds blew. It resulted in confusion, discord and a traumatization from which the Church has yet to recover. Unless someone comes forward to report on the abuses, factually, then the only ones who will know are those who commit them , approve of them, are afraid to do anything about them or think the abuses are what the Church actually teaches.

The apparent prevailing belief that as long as something calls itself Catholic everything is fine, is I feel, just plain wrong.

The fact that in the case of Life Teen the abuses were so great, so ingrained and so common that its founder had to take the highly unusual step of sending out correspondence on them speaks volumes. You will note that the memo was not written willingly, but came about after meetings with Cardinal Arinze and it merely requested that the offending groups conform to Liturgical guidelines and stop their rampant abuses. Overall, it was not successful.

Believe me, the abuses continue, are prevalent and worse than ever, in complete and open defiance of what the organizational offices of Life Teen requested

OK, first of all, its for teenagers. TEENAGERS. Yes, teens will go somewhere to find a boyfriend/girlfried. They will go because of the leader, they will come to take very personally some practices they find that accepts them. Is this our ultimate goal? of course not, but these are teenagers. Yes, it will be hard for teenagers who have been invited to the altar for years, to not be. It does not prove your point that a bunch of teenagers would have a hard time with it. But at my parish, and in my diocese, when it was taught well, things were fine. Teenagers are why this program exists…to help bring them into the Mass because they are not going. It is not a perfect world where teenagers love going to Mass with their families who catechize them well. Thats why it exists in the first place. Once we get them there, then catechize, evangelize, and then (as it happened to me) ANY Mass (TLM, Lifeteen, or silent daily mass) will be a Mass. I never would have been able to go to quiet adoration if it wasn’t for Lifeteen.

The founder went to Rome to ask what Rome wanted them to do, not the other way around. It was a joyful task, not one that they were forced to do.

I find it interesting that you have appointed yourself liturgy police.

As I have mentioned before, I know bishops in other diocese (one on the board for Lifeteen), I know for a fact, that these abuses are not happening in lots of places…seeing as how you have been only to 10%, your experience is quite limited.

 

[Philothea53]

I find it interesting that you have appointed yourself liturgy police.

I get so tired of reading this kind of response. You know, no one here is talking about whether or not its okay to wear white shoes after Labor Day. We are all members of the Church. We all have rights AND responsibilities to the Church and to one another to ensure that abuses don’t occur.

 

[agapewolf]

Philothea,

Please understand, I am not talking about a person that just attends a Mass, sees some problems, and reports or addresses them…I’m talking about someone who *self admittedly *travels from Mass to Mass trying to find them…seeking them out. One has to wonder if the person is disappointed if he doesn’t find anything.

here is the quote: from palmas:

…to travel from Mass to Mass to see what happens at them, I can say only this. I saw what happened to the Church after Vatican II when people by and large sat back and let things go whichever direction the winds blew. It resulted in confusion, discord and a traumatization from which the Church has yet to recover. Unless someone comes forward to report on the abuses, factually, then the only ones who will know are those who commit them , approve of them, are afraid to do anything about them or think the abuses are what the Church actually teaches.

While this may be a true statement…taking up action when needed, the traveling around is a patrol. As Cat stated before, not really up to a lay person, but more of a diocesan staff maybe?

I also just found the warning by the administrator. I apologize for my tone, this is just a topic (LIFETEEN) that I am extremely passionate about, as it has changed my life and countless around me. Someone goating, or saying incorrect things of which they have no base (the memos not existing, etc) raises these passions. Not an excuse I know, but a reason at least.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

for you AG :hug1:
We all get excited if we are passionate about something.
Sorry if I offended you, I didn’t mean to attack LT completely, just what I had encountered.

 

[luswife]

Well God Bless You! I have done some traveling around the eastern part of the U.S for the last three years and first encountered a Life Teen Mass in the Columbus, OH area. The devotion of the teens involved and the full and active participation of the congregation has caused me to search out Life Teen Masses wherever I can when I am on the road. I am over 50 and can very clearly remember the old days when participation in the “work of the people” was actively discouraged- no wonder so many fell away in my age group.
Please, please, please, continue to bring our young people to the Lord and encourage their full and active participation in the liturgy!

 

[benedictgal]

First of all, how do you know that GOd isn’t inspiring people today to write music for Mass? Why does everyone blanket “modern” music as bad? All modern music isn’t bad, and there is some very exceptional music out there written in contemporary style, and yes, approved for Mass.

Second of all, the gathering around the altar was not an abuse at the time, if you will read my past post. They were not told to “cease this practice” as you say. The story unfolds in a much different way.

Patience and Love, I’m sorry you had that experience…however, in MY experience, as a youth minister, in the 1 1/2 years I had lifeteen at a parish, I had 3 vocations come out of there. THe neighboring parish had 12 in 3 1/2 years.

Its the way it was done, it wasn’t lifeteen itself

Pope Benedict XVI has already issued stern warnings to the Neocatechumanal Way that they cease and desist liturgical abusese in the Mass. While I have not been to a “Life Teen” Mass, I have been exposed to some of the music that they use during the Holy Sacrifice.

First of all, liturgical music has its guidelines and these must be respected. In other threads, we have discussed what is appropriate for musical instrumentation. Cardinal Arinze, whom you have quoted, issued various statements indicating that if instruments are secular in nature (and electric guitars and drums are such), then these are not to be used during the Mass.

Furthermore, praise and worship music is not suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass because these come from the Protestant tradition, which does not recognize the Eucharistic Sacrifice and only sees “communion” as symbolic.

Pope Benedict XVI has repeatedly said that no song is as good as another when it comes to the Mass. This is certainly true for Life Teen. Furthermore, generations of the faithful have passed down the Faith and have died for the Faith and none of them needed Life Teen, especially martyrs such as St. Maria Goretti (who died just shy of becoming a teenager) and certainly St. Therese.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not against young people. I used to be one myself. I was 11 years old when John Paul II was elected to the Chair of Peter. While John Paul was all about encouraging the youth, I certainly don’t think that he was all for throwing out the Church’s sacred Traditions. Truth is eternal. It does not change nor is it decided by a majority. It is also not subject to novelty. I believe that we are doing young people a strong disservice (as well as to the sacred Traditions of our Faith) to discard everything after 1965 and exert excessive creativity in the Mass.

The Mass is about the Holy Sacrifice. It is not about being creative.

By the way, having anybody around the altar of sacrifice is very bad way at looking at actual participation. Furthermore, we, as the faithful, may have a common priesthood, but it is the ministerial priesthood that confects the sacrament. Rome has already issed statements regarding the participation of the laity in the Mass. Just because lectors are in the sanctuary that does not mean that they are at the altar with the priest. Furthermore, according to Redemptionis Sacramentum, the EMHC should not approach the altar as though they were concelebrants at the Mass.

We have concentrated so much on the horizontal aspect of the Mass that we have nearly abandoned the vertical. The Mass is not a celebration of the community. It is not about ourselves. It is about worshipping God through the Holy Sacrifice. Life Teen does not take any of this into account.

I am also having a hard time inserting quotes. It’s one of those days.

 

[agapewolf]

.

Furthermore, praise and worship music is not suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass because these come from the Protestant tradition, which does not recognize the Eucharistic Sacrifice and only sees “communion” as symbolic.

The Mass is not a celebration of the community. It is not about ourselves. It is about worshipping God through the Holy Sacrifice. Life Teen does not take any of this into account.
.

Absolutely incorrect. Praise and worship CAN be appropriate…picking appropriate songs with theologically sound lyrics, just because a “protestant” wrote it does not mean that it cannot be used at Mass. Some are questionable theology, most are not. Also,just by changing one word, a song can be made very Catholic. I do it often.

Since you have never been to a lifeteen mass, you do not have the authority to say this about lifeteen. Go to the website. go to a training, you will learn EXACTLY about lifeteen and that it knows exactly who we are worshipping at Mass …through the Holy Sacrifice.

Your accusations are unfounded.

 

[Steeltemplar]

As a youth minister running Life Teen in a parish… i wish to hear from you as to what your thoughts are if you have experienced a Teen mass or life nights? What about the idea of modern praise and worship music in a mass and during the Eucharistic Prayer having youth around the altar?

Let me be honest and say that I have never actually attended a LifeTeen function. I have, however, been to numerous Masses which include pop praise music. This includes Mass at Georgetown University.

Rather than debate here, as there is already much of that, I am simply going to speak for myself. At this posting, I am 26. I do recall pretty well what it was like to be in my teens. Ten years ago I was a Protestant and the music I listened to was primarily metal and rock. I can say with certainty that I would not have been interested in LifeTeen even if I had been Catholic. What I wanted out of a faith service was a serious atmosphere. I could listen to pop music on my own. And pretty much all modern “praise” music I have heard is stuff that I would never listen to of my own choosing.

My conversion to Catholicism when I was around 20 was in part inspired by beautiful old churches, reverent Mass, and the timeless nature of traditions which have been passed down through the ages.

When I found the traditional worship of Catholicism, it was the first time in my life that I felt truly at home in a church. It was different and separate from the world around us. The reverence and solemnity, the humbling of self, served as a deep reminder of the presence of the Lord.

There you have my own feelings and my reflections of what I was like when I was younger. I suspect that I am not alone.

 

[Sarabande]

As a youth minister running Life Teen in a parish… i wish to hear from you as to what your thoughts are if you have experienced a Teen mass or life nights? What about the idea of modern praise and worship music in a mass and during the Eucharistic Prayer having youth around the altar?

I didn’t read through all of the posts. As I’ve only been to a couple of parishes that provided it, I can’t say what it’s like around the rest of the country, but in these two parishes, this is how I experienced it. I’m relaying this to give you ideas of things you probably shouldn’t do or should do with your Life Teen masses.

My friends and I attended the Life Teen masses on Sunday nights at two parishes in our area. I was always longing for something deeper and meaningful in my prayer life and during the mass. The LifeTeen was talked up a lot and so I hoped that this would provide the depth I longed for. I also had great hope that maybe this would be something to spiritually inspire more people my age. I attended these masses on and off for about two years while in the latter part of my high school career.

The young priest who ran the one I attended more had a lot of charisma, which helped in drawing the crowds. There was a rock band that played music like P&W and some traditional hymns. These guys and gals were mostly in their 20s and they also helped lead the after mass activities. I guess the band would be good outside of the mass, but during mass, it left much to be desired. The masses were kind of hokie, but my friends and I went because it was a safe place to be together and we really were looking for some deeper spiritual inspiration. This was also during the time when the priest was always having all of us around the altar singing and raising our hands and telling us that we should be up there at the table. (But as I understand from a couple of the posts, this is thankfully no longer done.)

The after mass activities were similar to activities for kids in gradeschool or middle school. Nothing with real depth or meat. Some of the activities were fun, but nothing that truly got you to explore the depths of your faith life.

Eventually, my friends and I stopped going. I know that there were some people who got something out of it, but we just didn’t. At that time, almost all masses I grew up and attended at my own parish were not as rock band-like or hokie as Life Teen, but they were pretty similar in terms of music choices, etc. We had lots of folk masses and masses with organ using many of the newer hymns of the time. There wasn’t much traditional music (chant, polyphony, etc.) at that time, save for a few hymns and chanting the Our Father and some of the responses in English, so I wasn’t going into Life Teen with an idea in my head already. (I didn’t start experiencing the more traditional masses until I went to college and studied abroad and saw that all the sacred music I’ve ever learned was actually used during mass present day and not during the past.) I actually thought that what I experienced in my parish and at Life Teen was the norm.

So, I guess what I’m trying to say is that it would be nice to have a good mixture that would inspire teens who were like myself and teens who go more with other stuff. Someone suggested doing the P&W music prior to mass, then do the music that would be more appropriate for mass to demonstrate that there is a place for everything. Since the organ is something that is trying to be encouraged to be used more, perhaps sometimes have that instrument used during the Life Teen mass to show that there is an importance with it. Encourage a young person who already plays the piano to meet the challenge of learning that instrument. If they see that it is not just an “old persons” instrument, then the attitudes towards it will change and we might actually start getting more people who would want to learn it.

In terms of the after mass activities, many teens are looking to go deeper than what is presented. They need intellectual and spiritual stimulation. Try to devise activities that really get them to think and discuss, tempered with mindless fun activities, so that it won’t get too “heady”. The question is how can that be achieved. I don’t know myself. But I do know that with my friends and I, that program seemed to not care much about what we needed spiritually. Although, perhaps it’s not made for people like us. Our faith lives were pretty much grounded, so perhaps we needed something more “adult” and less superficial than what was offered at Life Teen.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I’m not trying to offend anyone who has had different experiences with it, but thought I’d give a perspective and group of teens to consider when planning the Life Teen events.

 

[luswife]

Absolutely incorrect. Praise and worship CAN be appropriate…picking appropriate songs with theologically sound lyrics, just because a “protestant” wrote it does not mean that it cannot be used at Mass. Some are questionable theology, most are not. Also,just by changing one word, a song can be made very Catholic. I do it often.

Since you have never been to a lifeteen mass, you do not have the authority to say this about lifeteen. Go to the website. go to a training, you will learn EXACTLY about lifeteen and that it knows exactly who we are worshipping at Mass …through the Holy Sacrifice.

Your accusations are unfounded.

Yea! I believe the Mass is about worshipping and praising God, so praise and worship music is appropriate. My experience with Life Teen has been very positive, they are teaching the youth that the liturgy is the work of the people and our sacred obligation to participate fully and actively. Is it not wonderful when our young people are active participants in the Mass? We have many wonderful “modern” composers- John Michael Talbot, Haugen, Haas, the list goes on and on-- music that enables the people to lift their voices in praise as Scripture commands us. I have been to too many Masses where the people sit like lumps and do not participate- off in their own little spheres, separate from the community, with no indication that they are expected to contribute.

 

[VociMike]

Yea! I believe the Mass is about worshipping and praising God, so praise and worship music is appropriate.

Just to be very clear, “praise and worship music” does not own the market on praising and worshiping God. Music that praises and worships God is appropriate, but that describes all 2000 years of Catholic music, not just the last 25 years or so of P&W.

 

[luswife]

Just to be very clear, “praise and worship music” does not own the market on praising and worshiping God. Music that praises and worships God is appropriate, but that describes all 2000 years of Catholic music, not just the last 25 years or so of P&W.

I agree! although I can sing in Latin and like to listen to chant, I prefer to be part of a community when at Mass, worhipping and praising with my sisters and brothers in Christ. I fear a return to the days when the people were spectators.

 

[palmas85]

I agree! although I can sing in Latin and like to listen to chant, I prefer to be part of a community when at Mass, worhipping and praising with my sisters and brothers in Christ. I fear a return to the days when the people were spectators.

If you were alive then, which I tend to doubt, and you were a spectator as you so elequently put it, it is because you chose to be a spectator. I attended the Traditional Mass throughout my youth, into my teen years and then when the indult was made available from then until now.

I have never been a spectator at Mass. As I said if you were or are, that is completely on you and is your choice, no one elses,.

 

[luswife]

If you were alive then, which I tend to doubt, and you were a spectator as you so elequently put it, it is because you chose to be a spectator. I attended the Traditional Mass throughout my youth, into my teen years and then when the indult was made available from then until now.

I have never been a spectator at Mass. As I said if you were or are, that is completely on you and is your choice, no one elses,.

Actually, I was very much alive and my very first memory is of the beautiful music at Mass! I was raised in a very traditional parish and as children we were not even allowed in the church unless the nuns or our parents were with us. We attended Mass and participated as it was allowed.
I can remember very clearly and still unfortunately see it today when people do not participate in the Mass, mumble the reponses, rush out after communion, etc. I still see today people praying the Rosary during Mass. Yes, I pray the Rosary, but not during Mass.
To get back to the thread, I like the idea of young people being taught that it is their sacred duty to participate in the Mass and my experience with Life Teen is that it does just that. The Life Teen Masses in which I have participated have been reverent and joyful. I fully support anything that draws our youth closer to God.
Nothing against Latin or chant, just prefer music that is more modern.

 

[VociMike]

I agree! although I can sing in Latin and like to listen to chant, I prefer to be part of a community when at Mass, worhipping and praising with my sisters and brothers in Christ. I fear a return to the days when the people were spectators.

Actually, the strongest singing I have ever heard in my decades of Mass attendance has been at a Latin Novus Ordo Mass. No organ, no amplification, but those people (that community, if you like) sang the roof off.

And as for your fears, it is always best not to fear imaginary things, or swallow whole the propaganda of those who would oppose our Holy Father.

 

[benedictgal]

Absolutely incorrect. Praise and worship CAN be appropriate…picking appropriate songs with theologically sound lyrics, just because a “protestant” wrote it does not mean that it cannot be used at Mass. Some are questionable theology, most are not. Also,just by changing one word, a song can be made very Catholic. I do it often.

Since you have never been to a lifeteen mass, you do not have the authority to say this about lifeteen. Go to the website. go to a training, you will learn EXACTLY about lifeteen and that it knows exactly who we are worshipping at Mass …through the Holy Sacrifice.

Your accusations are unfounded.

I would like for you to cite authoritative documentation that states that such praise and worship music is suitable. Do you have an aversion to sacred tradition? You seem to carry this same thread in many of your responses to my posts.

You need only to read the documents as well as rulings that have come from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. I am not saying that modernity is completely bad; however, when such music reduces the Mass to a feel good experience, then there is a problem.

My accusations are not unfounded. Just look at the Bishops Committee on Liturgy powerpoint on sacred music. Read Pope Benedict’s many statements on music pre and post papal election. I prefer to stand with Peter on this one.

 

[agapewolf]

I would like for you to cite authoritative documentation that states that such praise and worship music is suitable. Do you have an aversion to sacred tradition? You seem to carry this same thread in many of your responses to my posts.

You need only to read the documents as well as rulings that have come from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. I am not saying that modernity is completely bad; however, when such music reduces the Mass to a feel good experience, then there is a problem.

My accusations are not unfounded. Just look at the Bishops Committee on Liturgy powerpoint on sacred music. Read Pope Benedict’s many statements on music pre and post papal election. I prefer to stand with Peter on this one.

I was refuting your point that p/w music does not belong in mass because it is a protestant background. That itself does not make it unsuitable for Mass. P/w music does NOT necessarily reduce mass to a “Feel good” experience.

Your accusations ARE unfounded, becasue as I stated before, if you go to a conference you will see just how committed lifeteen is to the program being centerered around the Eucharist and the Mass, and the correct understanding on it.

Your comment about “standing with peter” shows that you don’t understand where “peter” is on this. Card. arinze, and the vatican HAS APPROVED LIFETEEN…and encourages this sort of youth mass. I stand with Peter on this one.

And no, I don’t have any aversion to sacred tradition at all. I’m all for it. In the lifeteen masses I play, I include tradition. I know however, how effective P/w music is with our teens and actually, ALL AGES of people that come. Its not reducing Mass to feel good, its engaging passionate prayer.