Life Teen

[palmas85]

Actually, I was very much alive and my very first memory is of the beautiful music at Mass! I was raised in a very traditional parish and as children we were not even allowed in the church unless the nuns or our parents were with us. We attended Mass and participated as it was allowed.
I can remember very clearly and still unfortunately see it today when people do not participate in the Mass, mumble the reponses, rush out after communion, etc. I still see today people praying the Rosary during Mass. Yes, I pray the Rosary, but not during Mass.
To get back to the thread, I like the idea of young people being taught that it is their sacred duty to participate in the Mass and my experience with Life Teen is that it does just that. The Life Teen Masses in which I have participated have been reverent and joyful. I fully support anything that draws our youth closer to God.
Nothing against Latin or chant, just prefer music that is more modern.

I think that we can agree then that if people today are still not participating, leaving early, mumbling responses etc., then it is not the Mass but them personally. They choose how actively they participate. Exactly the same as those before them did.

I meant no disrespect when I said I doubted that you had attended the Traditional Mass in years gone by. All too often those who bring up such statements have never been to a Traditional Mass of any type let alone when it was the norm.

I am glad that the Life Teen Masses that you have attended have been reverent. I have attended many of them over the years and that has not been my experience at all nor apparently the experience of many on this forum.

Normally what I have seen has been a senseless hodgepodge of feel good platitudes about love and little if anything else. The music while not bad in some cases was normally not at all conducive to any sort of worship. It seems to me that in our zeal to imitate our separated brethren, which is really all Life Teen is, we have managed to incorporate the worst elements and claim them as our own.

 

[benedictgal]

I was refuting your point that p/w music does not belong in mass because it is a protestant background. That itself does not make it unsuitable for Mass. P/w music does NOT necessarily reduce mass to a “Feel good” experience.

Your accusations ARE unfounded, becasue as I stated before, if you go to a conference you will see just how committed lifeteen is to the program being centerered around the Eucharist and the Mass, and the correct understanding on it.

Your comment about “standing with peter” shows that you don’t understand where “peter” is on this. Card. arinze, and the vatican HAS APPROVED LIFETEEN…and encourages this sort of youth mass. I stand with Peter on this one.

And no, I don’t have any aversion to sacred tradition at all. I’m all for it. In the lifeteen masses I play, I include tradition. I know however, how effective P/w music is with our teens and actually, ALL AGES of people that come. Its not reducing Mass to feel good, its engaging passionate prayer.

Well, then, I would suggest that you read what Peter is now saying about this issue, especially in his book, “The Spirit of the Liturgy”. Even though it was written pre-papal election, he hasn’t changed his mind about “rock music” at Mass. I do not have the book in front of me, but as Cardinal Ratzinger, he notes that this particular type of genre is more reminsicent of the frenzy of the cult of Dionysis, the Greek god of wine and debauchery, instead of appropriate liturgical action.

Now, to say that Cardinal Arinze has approved “Life Teen” is all well and good. Have you read what he has said lately, as far back as last year? He has made several remarks about sacred music. I suspect that while he approved the concept of “Life Teen”, I do not think that the music was part of the package. Furthermore, Cardinal Arinze has said that John Paul II gets “blamed” for many things that, in essence, he would not have approved of and he cites liturgical dance as one such item. He gave Life Teen an inch and they have taken several miles.

Furthermore, those of you who advocate “Praise and Worship” music for the Mass need to carefully study the history of the Holy Sacrifice. The Mass is not a celebration of ourselves, nor is it some sort of “feel good” experience. It is something that reaches beyound ourselves and draws us into active participation by preparing ourselves for the Mass interiorly and uniting ourselves with the Sacrfice of Jesus on the altar. This is a point that is rarely mentioned in any of the threads. We have reduced the Mass to a meal, taking the Protestant point of view. Where is the sacrifice of calvary?

Unfortunately, the Protestant praise pop does not take any of this into account. Agapewolf, you mention that you can change the words and make it Catholic. Putting lipstick and a silk dress on a sow does’nt change the fact that it is still a sow. The Mass has its own rubrics for music. You have yet to cite passages from Church documentation. Now, you don’t have to, but, if you are going to make blanket statements then you need to back them up.

If you note on some of the posts in this thread, teens are more attracted to a real sense of the majesty of God. And, they have come to experience this when the Mass is celebrated according to the rubrics and norms of the church, inclusive of music.

 

[benedictgal]

Actually, I was very much alive and my very first memory is of the beautiful music at Mass! I was raised in a very traditional parish and as children we were not even allowed in the church unless the nuns or our parents were with us. We attended Mass and participated as it was allowed.
I can remember very clearly and still unfortunately see it today when people do not participate in the Mass, mumble the reponses, rush out after communion, etc. I still see today people praying the Rosary during Mass. Yes, I pray the Rosary, but not during Mass.
To get back to the thread, I like the idea of young people being taught that it is their sacred duty to participate in the Mass and my experience with Life Teen is that it does just that. The Life Teen Masses in which I have participated have been reverent and joyful. I fully support anything that draws our youth closer to God.
Nothing against Latin or chant, just prefer music that is more modern.

To say that one did not quite participate during the Traditional Latin Mass is a big mistake. You get out of something what you put in and, if people were to take the time to read the prayers and to follow them along with the priest, there is your active participation.

Which begs me to ask, why has church attendance dwindled in the last 40 years? Is it because we have forgotten that during the Mass, the veil between heaven and earth is lifted and we are united as a complete church with those in heaven and those in purgatory? Have we completely forgotten the eschatological element of the Mass?

If Life Teen is an experimentation (which is what indult means), then perhaps it is time to seriously re-think and evaluate how this is helping the Church. Young people hunger for stability in their faith. I know, I used to be young and I was 11 when John Paul II was elected.

 

[agapewolf]

Which begs me to ask, why has church attendance dwindled in the last 40 years?
If Life Teen is an experimentation (which is what indult means), then perhaps it is time to seriously re-think and evaluate how this is helping the Church. Young people hunger for stability in their faith. I know, I used to be young and I was 11 when John Paul II was elected.

THe lack of church attendance can be a result from many things…such as loss of society;'s need for God, and acceptance of relativism…but this is a different thread. I would have left the church by now if all I had were chant masses to go on (yes, at the time, it was a lack of understanding of the one true faith, but then so it is for those that leave for any reason…please read on)

I can give you an honest observation of how lifeteen is helping young people in the church, I posted this in a previous thread:

I am a 33 year old music director of a parish. Before this job, I was a youth minister for 5 years. I became an orthodox devout practicing Catholic through LifeTeen AS AN ADULT YOUTH MINISTER.

Fruits from LifeTeen I have seen first hand:
I have seen this program keep teens from not only leaving the church, but the same teen enter the seminary and become a priest. I have seen MANY sisters in different (conservative) orders take vows who were once in LT programs, and discerned their vocation in a LT program.Teens bring their parents back to church. The Lifeteen Mass at our parish has all ages…. Not just teens and their parents, but our biggest fan, a 90 year old man.

At the lifenights, we teach chastity, catechesis, OBJECTIVE morality, modesty, a healthy prayer life (sub prayer groups study saints, in depth bible studies, ministerial life, evangelization in schools, and doctors of the church).

LT stresses IMMEDIATE obedience. The training brings in professors and has a working releationship with FRANCISCAN UNIVERSITY OF STEUBENVILLE

JPII the great said that the youth were their own separate culture. It’s not about “dumbing” down the liturgy. Opposite that, it requires HIGH QUALITY in everyting.

Unfortunately, there will be musicians that think it’s a performance. The Musicians at my parish pray hard, and all they want is to get the people to sing louder. The drums are done tastefully (by the way, the only instrument we have today mentioned in the bible is the drums), and the utilization of them creates tension in the music that pulls the people’s voices to be louder. I plan music from ALL time periods. Please remember at one time, chant was new. Harmony was scandalous. Before that, the singing that took place at the wedding at canaa was more guttural and dissonant. Tradition is important, however, we shouldn’t exclude that musicians today have very valuable additions to Catholic repertoire. You may not prefer that style of music….thats ok. But that doesn’t discredit it.

My participation in LifeTeen as an adult has helped me to love the Mass for itself. I love a quiet daily Mass. I am not afraid of silence and go to holy hours in our quiet adoration chapel because of experiences like the Steubenville youth conference and LifeTeen retreats with adoration and music. Before, adoration used to be something I dreaded cause you just knelt a really long time and got bored. (in grade school). Now it’s an amazing experience of the Lord. This is not only my experience, but many.

We had adoration and praise and worship music at our parish one night… 3 6th graders came up to me after that one night and asked to sign up for a slot of our perpetual adoration chapel.
PRAISE GOD!!!

All of this is to create an atmosphere that is practicing what we preach. If we love the Lord like we say we do, let’s be passionate. Let’s put forth our best in everything.ifferent thread.

 

[THurifer2]

what is life teen going to do if the holy father drops the hammer on Liturgical music? I

 

[Steeltemplar]

I think that it is not at all surprising that most teens have little appreciation for classical music, chant, and polyphony. You could probably get many to appreciate the more exciting sacred works, such as Mozart’s Requiem in D. Whatever you say about it, there is no way you could call the Dies Irae in that boring I know that there are a lot of young folk who love O Fortuna from Orff’s Carmina Burana (which is definitely not sacred music) - though I am sure they tend to associate it more with the movie Excalibur. However, other works require exposure to begin to understand and enjoy them. I did not start loving to opera, for instance, on the first day I listened to it. It took some time before I was able to love Puccini and then Mozart’s Le nozze di Figaro.

Classical music, chant, and polyphony are beautiful, edifying forms of music and worship. They are worthwhile things for young people and anyone else to learn to enjoy properly. For me, I did not initially understand them all that well, but there was a sort of threshold that I reached past which these complex musical forms became a pure joy.

So my thought is, why not help teens to understand and enjoy such musical genres? Whatever else is done, it would be a pity to resign them to popular music as if they could never enjoy the older forms. Sometimes developing a depth of taste requires time. The reward is incredible, however.

Also, I do not think that singing loudly is required for a fullness of worship. Some of the most worshipful moments of my life I have been quiet. Worship is in the heart. And simply because one is not singing does not mean they do not participate in the Mass. If I am lifted into worship, prayer, and humble supplication through a chant or a performance of Schubert’s Ave Maria, then I am participating in great depth.

And neither must joy be loud and garish. One of the most joyful things I have ever heard is Mozart’s Exsultate, Jubilate. It is dignified and tranquil. And utterly joyful.

 

[palmas85]

what is life teen going to do if the holy father drops the hammer on Liturgical music? I

They’ll do what they have always done. Give lip service to the announcement and continue doing whatever they want. After all it is their Mass.

 

[agapewolf]

They’ll do what they have always done. Give lip service to the announcement and continue doing whatever they want. After all it is their Mass.

This is incorrect. They have never just given “lip service”…and they will obey whatever is directed.

 

[palmas85]

This is incorrect. They have never just given “lip service”…and they will obey whatever is directed.

If I remember correctly, they were specifically told no more gathering around the altar were they not? Yet, they still do. Don’t say they don’t, as I saw one just last week Please don’t let your love for this group get in the way of the truth, OK?

While there may be good people involved in running this group, and I know there must be, there is a sizeable group that in no way wants to conform with Liturgical guidelines. They never have and honestly, I doubt that they ever will.

I may l be wrong on this one, but I don’t think so.

 

[agapewolf]

If I remember correctly, they were specifically told no more gathering around the altar were they not? Yet, they still do. Don’t say they don’t, as I saw one just last week Please don’t let your love for this group get in the way of the truth, OK?

While there may be good people involved in running this group, and I know there must be, there is a sizeable group that in no way wants to conform with Liturgical guidelines. They never have and honestly, I doubt that they ever will.

I may l be wrong on this one, but I don’t think so.

Palmas, as I’ve said before…you don’t want people making a complete judgement about the church because of particular members.

The organization, as you know, as told the parishes to STOP gathering around the altar. The fact that some continue is not the position of LifeTeen, so do not blame lifeteen for it.

It is unfortunate that these particular people are not obedient. It is not right, but that is absolutely not the postion of lifeteen. Give them a call yourself. …and THAT IS THE TRUTH.

 

[kage_ar]

agapewolf -

I’ve been watching from the sidelines - I can understand how passionate you are about LifeTeen. Since it brought you in to practice with the Church it is no wonder you feel such a strong attachment.

For some of us, we have seen LifeTeen range from goofy to bad. No program will be a success everywhere with every group of teens.

Our Sr. High group languished with LifeTeen programs, but, is growing and vibrant with Scriptural Apologetics (no program, just the Bible, the CCC and teaching).

 

[Sarabande]

Agapewolf - It sounds like you have a very successful Life Teen program where you are at, especially in terms of the activities after the mass. Perhaps some of your people could come up to the northern parts of the U.S. and help reestablish or “reinvigorate” a better form of Life Teen up here. I know my experience of it is narrow, but I also know from other people who come from parishes up north that their experiences with Life Teen were similar to mine. There is apparently a huge disconnect with what Life Teen is trying to establish and what the leaders of these various parishes are actually doing. Maybe LifeTeen needs to go back out there to reinvigorate the program where it is languishing. It’s obviously not where you are, but it appears that it is in other parts of the country.

 

[Sarabande]

I think that it is not at all surprising that most teens have little appreciation for classical music, chant, and polyphony…However, other works require exposure to begin to understand and enjoy them. I did not start loving to opera, for instance, on the first day I listened to it. It took some time before I was able to love Puccini and then Mozart’s Le nozze di Figaro.

Classical music, chant, and polyphony are beautiful, edifying forms of music and worship. They are worthwhile things for young people and anyone else to learn to enjoy properly. For me, I did not initially understand them all that well, but there was a sort of threshold that I reached past which these complex musical forms became a pure joy.

So my thought is, why not help teens to understand and enjoy such musical genres? Whatever else is done, it would be a pity to resign them to popular music as if they could never enjoy the older forms. Sometimes developing a depth of taste requires time. The reward is incredible, however.

I would agree. I’ve come to believe it is a societal thing. Many are raised to believe that classical music is stuffy and too “high brow”, when in reality it is not. I used to teach music to children. I found that the younger the child, the more open they were to all forms of music. They will love classical as equally as popular music. As they get older and have developed biases or ideas of where certain genres of music belong, that’s when the equality ends. It’s also the peer pressure. They don’t want to look like a nerd if they like opera or classical. (I was one of those who loved watching it on tv - first for the costuming, then for the music and now I am an opera singer. Go figure.) It’s amazing to see a teen’s face express total surprise when they’ve truly heard an incredible symphonic work. This one 14 year old boy I had literally had a revelation when he heard Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture. It was an incredible, yet very funny moment. And this was a boy who rarely heard classical music.

It’s also the way a teacher will present this music. I’ve always been a proponant of never dumbing things down. Children know and expect much more than what we tend to give them credit for. I always pushed them to go further past the box, but I also made sure to never present this music in an “elitist” way. True, I didn’t get to everyone, but I do know that many of them came to appreciate and like many of the works I brought to them.

I really believe that it is important to teach them from an early age our vast history of church music. And it shouldn’t be taught like history, but actually be living it with a music teacher or director who is passionate and enlivened by it. That certainly does make a world of difference. They learn much better and will like it just as equally if they have a teacher who really does take the time to figure out ways to make it equal to what they hear every day.

And neither must joy be loud and garish. One of the most joyful things I have ever heard is Mozart’s Exsultate, Jubilate. It is dignified and tranquil. And utterly joyful.

Oh, my goodness!!! That is one of my most favorite pieces to sing. If you get joy from hearing it, imagine what it’s like singing it. Pure ecstasy!!! Also try the “Laudate Dominum” from Mozart’s Vespers mass for soprano and choir, if you haven’t heard it already. Sublime.

P.S. And opera is sometimes an acquired taste. Always start the children with lighter opera from earlier periods. They tend to not like the very heavy, dramatic voices when they’re younger, unless it’s something they recognize like the Habanera or La Donna e Mobile.

 

[Cat]

When I read through this thread, the question that kept popping into my head is, “How many of you actually know any teenagers other than those in your own family?!”

It is a lovely thought–teens who love classical music. And these teens do exist. My kids like it (my younger daughter is into opera at age 21 and is a member of an opera workshop).

But my kids attended an exclusive private college prep school where all of the “rich kids” in our city go. (We got scholarships, and we went into debt to send them there.) Needless to say, many of these kids are raised in exemplary homes, and they like all kinds of music.

If you know “regular” kids, i.e., NON-Christian kids, which is the majority of kids in the U.S. today–I’m tellin’ you, they usually don’t like classical music.

I don’t think they really care for Lifeteen music, either.

I think before we make all kinds of conclusions about what kind of Mass and music kids will like or not like, it would be worthwhile to become a “missionary” and go where they are and get to know them first.

And like I said in my first post, the main thing that brings kids to church is love, the love of God as demonstrated through His people here on earth. When I was Protestant, I worked with teenaged girls in a weeknight church club setting. We did some pretty hokey things–e.g., coloring and pizza, bike olympics, cooking, clay masks, etc. (and sometimes we did some cool things!)–but I had a huge group of girls in my club. They came because they knew that I and the other leaders loved them. They didn’t care about the trappings, they were seeking love and acceptance.

 

[Sarabande]

When I read through this thread, the question that kept popping into my head is, “How many of you actually know any teenagers other than those in your own family?!”

I taught music to teens and knew quite a few from teaching, including those in my family.

But my kids attended an exclusive private college prep school where all of the “rich kids” in our city go. (We got scholarships, and we went into debt to send them there.) Needless to say, many of these kids are raised in exemplary homes, and they like all kinds of music.

There you go… As I said in my post. It is a societal thing. If they’re raised to think it’s elitist and bad, of course they’ll have an preconceived notion about it unless someone truly knows how to open their ears to it. My students came from lower middle class to middle class families. They definitely weren’t rich kids and most didn’t have the experience of appreciating or liking all kinds of music. It was my job to help them equalize their experience with music.

Another example is my grandmother. She was from a blue collar family - grew up with hardly any classical music exposure except for what she had in Catholic school. She liked classical music, but thought she didn’t like opera. It was because she had a preconceived notion about it. She never even really listened to an opera singer or saw an opera. She just thought she didn’t like it because that was supposed to be for “high class people”. Her best friend, though, loved opera and came from the same background as her, but my grandmother never went to see an opera with her because of her notions about it. The rest of my family were the same way… until I began to become very serious about opera and am now an opera singer. They started coming to my concerts and operas and now my grandmother loves it. She never realized that she would like it and wants to come to everything I do. My family also will come to almost all of my performances. Not all of them love it, but they have developed a better appreciation for it.

It’s defintely a cultural and societal thing. Kids will like any music that is “good” - they don’t differentiate between classical and popular. If it’s good, they’ll like it. As they get older and get those preconceived notions, suddenly the music that is not supposed to be liked will be thrown aside - unless they have adults who will show them a better path.

If you know “regular” kids, i.e., NON-Christian kids, which is the majority of kids in the U.S. today–I’m tellin’ you, they usually don’t like classical music.

I don’t think they really care for Lifeteen music, either.

That is true - until you get someone who knows how to introduce them to a part of art and music world without it seeming too hard. (Although, I don’t want to assume that the majority of kids are non-Christian. How do we really know that?) It does work, but there is a lot of hard work and climbing mountains - definitely wasn’t easy, but if you’re dedicated you will see success - not with everyone, but with many. When music programs were important in all schools - public and parochial - you saw much more children grow up with a better appreciation for different kinds of music. You don’t see that today because we don’t have the kinds of music programs that were once in the schools.

I think before we make all kinds of conclusions about what kind of Mass and music kids will like or not like, it would be worthwhile to become a “missionary” and go where they are and get to know them first.

This is true as well, but I don’t think most of the people here are making conclusions. I’m just speaking for myself, but I believe it is important to expose them to this music and other forms of music with a lot of zeal. Some will get spiritual inspiration out of it, some won’t. I wish that we had someone like that when I was growing up instead of, as you said, making a conclusion that since I’m a teen, I will like a certain kind of music. The purity and truth of mass and our faith comes first, though.

 

[palmas85]

Palmas, as I’ve said before…you don’t want people making a complete judgement about the church because of particular members.

The organization, as you know, as told the parishes to STOP gathering around the altar. The fact that some continue is not the position of LifeTeen, so do not blame lifeteen for it.

It is unfortunate that these particular people are not obedient. It is not right, but that is absolutely not the postion of lifeteen. Give them a call yourself. …and THAT IS THE TRUTH.

Agape, I appreciate your position and I’m sorry, truly sorry that abuses do exist in this organization that you love so much. But I will pose a question to you. The organization has said the abuses must stop, yet they continue unabated in many areas, so what steps will the organization take to clamp down on the disobedient areas? Censure them? Cut off funding? Pull accreditation? Nope, I will tell you what they will do. Nothing.

They will send out memos to show that they will comply and if nobody does, they can say Hey, we told them to stop, its not our fault.

What they need to do is send their people out to the disobedient parishes and programs, and believe me they know exactly who they are and take action to correct things.

If they don’t then they are just as guilty as the offending programs.

And the truth is they really don’t want to comply. How did they word it in their letter, they realized how much pain would be caused by having to comply? They are playing the same game the Jesuits did years ago with Rome. You remember that don’t you?. The Vatican explicitly told the Jesuits their behavior was unacceptable and needed to change. The Jesuits said they would and then continued on their merry way doing exactly as they wanted. Yet they could produce reams of documents showing that they were in fact complying when they were not. The Holy Father eventually had enough, stepped in and took over, removing their head and replacing him with his own man.

So maybe the leaders at Lifeteen need to do the same thing.

 

[agapewolf]

Agape, I appreciate your position and I’m sorry, truly sorry that abuses do exist in this organization that you love so much. But I will pose a question to you. The organization has said the abuses must stop, yet they continue unabated in many areas, so what steps will the organization take to clamp down on the disobedient areas? Censure them? Cut off funding? Pull accreditation? Nope, I will tell you what they will do. Nothing.

.

Again, you are way off. Why don’t you call them yourself as I’ve suggested before? You obviously do not know how things are run, and are just going off without any information.

There was a parish that had a female “deaconess” who read the gospel and preached…they asked to be in lifeteen and were denied.

Parish by parish, THEY DO work on things. If you wll go to the website to find out exactly how many parishes subscribe to their service, you will see. Some of these parishes “subscribe” to the service, but yet don’t call themsleves a lifeteen program, and get away with doing stuff like this.

Just like you see abuses in many catholic churches…you cannot blame rome for not “containing” them. Rome sets the rules, and they do not follow.

 

[palmas85]

Again, you are way off. Why don’t you call them yourself as I’ve suggested before? You obviously do not know how things are run, and are just going off without any information.

There was a parish that had a female “deaconess” who read the gospel and preached…they asked to be in lifeteen and were denied.

Parish by parish, THEY DO work on things. If you wll go to the website to find out exactly how many parishes subscribe to their service, you will see. Some of these parishes “subscribe” to the service, but yet don’t call themsleves a lifeteen program, and get away with doing stuff like this.

Just like you see abuses in many catholic churches…you cannot blame rome for not “containing” them. Rome sets the rules, and they do not follow.

Agape, just because the organization says something doesn’t mean that is what they do. I’m positive that if I call them they will swear up and down that they are 100% orthodox and would never do anything outside of liturgical guidelines. What else could they say? Why yes, Palmas, as a matter of fact we don’t follow the rules. When abuses occur on the magnitude that they occur with this organization it is either the result of extremely poor management or outright complicity.

I will be charitable here and say poor management. Very very poor management.

Your last statement however is telling. Lifeteen sets the rules and the parishes don’t follow them. Why?

 

[benedictgal]

Unfortunately, there will be musicians that think it’s a performance. The Musicians at my parish pray hard, and all they want is to get the people to sing louder. The drums are done tastefully (by the way, the only instrument we have today mentioned in the bible is the drums), and the utilization of them creates tension in the music that pulls the people’s voices to be louder. I plan music from ALL time periods. Please remember at one time, chant was new. Harmony was scandalous. Before that, the singing that took place at the wedding at canaa was more guttural and dissonant. Tradition is important, however, we shouldn’t exclude that musicians today have very valuable additions to Catholic repertoire. You may not prefer that style of music….thats ok. But that doesn’t discredit it.

We had adoration and praise and worship music at our parish one night… 3 6th graders came up to me after that one night and asked to sign up for a slot of our perpetual adoration chapel.
PRAISE GOD!!!

I can understand some of your points. Please bear with me as I am still having trouble with the “quote” button on these threads.

I still stand my ground on the praise and worship music. Please know that I am also not talking off the top of my head, as the quote below comes directly from “The Spirit of the Liturgy”:

“Three developments in recent music epitomize the problems that the Church has to face when she is considering liturgical music. First of all, there is the cultural universalization that the Church has to undertake if she wants to get beyond the boundaries of the European mind”. Here, the Church sees “culture” as it pertains to indigenous peoples (i.e. Native Americans, African tribes, etc). While John Paul II said that the youth had their “culture”, he was not speaking in terms of the incultration that the Church seeks.

Ratzinger continues, "This is the question of what incultration should look like in the realm of sacred music if, on the one hand, the identity of Christianity is to be preserved and, on the other, its universality is to be expressed in local forms…

“The music of the masses has broken loose from this (classical setting) and treads a very different path. On the other hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenom of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately, has to be described as a cult of the banal. ‘Rock’, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals, it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, opposed to Christian worship.”

The Protestant praise and worship music falls into this category, especially those espoused in Life Teen Masses.

Please understand that no one is against the concept of “Life Teen” (at least, as far as I can tell). It’s the expression of the music that does set it at odds with what the Holy Father is saying, especially when, as Ratzinger, he writes, “The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few minutes.”

He makes one final observation in his chapter regarding music. "The writings of Plato and Aristotle on music show that the Greek world in their time was faced with a choice between two kinds of worship, two different images of God and man. Now what this choice came down to concretely was a choice between two fundamental types of music. On the one hand, there is the music that Plato ascribes, in line with mythology, to Apollo, the god of light and reason. This is the music that draws senses into the spirit and so brings man to wholeness. It does not abolish the senses, but inserts them into unityof the creature that is man. It elevates the spirit precisely by wedding it to the senses, and it elevates the senses by uniting them with the spirit. This kind of music is an expression of man’s special place in the general structure of being.

“But, then there is the music that Plato ascribes to Marsyas, which we might describe, in terms of cultic history as “Dionysian”. It drags man into the intoxication of the senses, crushes rationality and sjbuects the spirit to the senses. The way Plato (and more moderately, Aristotle) allows instruments and keys to one or other of these two kinds of music is now obselete and may in many respects surprise us. But the Apollonian/Dionysian alternative runs through the whole historry of religion and confronts us again today. Not every kind of music can have a place in Christian worship.”

He makes this same point, now as Pope, in Sacramentum Caritatis, where he writes, “Not every song is as good as another”, when he discusses sacred music.

 

[kage_ar]

Agape, just because the organization says something doesn’t mean that is what they do. I’m positive that if I call them they will swear up and down that they are 100% orthodox and would never do anything outside of liturgical guidelines. What else could they say? Why yes, Palmas, as a matter of fact we don’t follow the rules. When abuses occur on the magnitude that they occur with this organization it is either the result of extremely poor management or outright complicity.

I will be charitable here and say poor management. Very very poor management.

Your last statement however is telling. Lifeteen sets the rules and the parishes don’t follow them. Why?

I’d have to say this is an unfair accusation - LifeTeen is a Catholic Apostolate. I do not know about you, but, I have yet to see a Catholic ministry that is rolling in cash. In order to make sure every guideline was followed by every LifeTeen team member in every State and every Parish, it would take a large team of “inspectors” who would make random visits to each Mass and LifeNight session. I have not done the math, but, it would take a considerable bankroll to support such a staff and travel budget.

Any program is only as good as the human beings involved in it.