Life Teen

[ms_cilantro]

We just started attending the Life Teen Mass with my youngest daughter, who is a late teen.
She prefers this Mass because the homily is longer. She feels that she gets a greater understanding of the topic presented. I enjoy this Mass too becuase there are fewer squirmy distractions.

 

[palmas85]

I’d have to say this is an unfair accusation - LifeTeen is a Catholic Apostolate. I do not know about you, but, I have yet to see a Catholic ministry that is rolling in cash. In order to make sure every guideline was followed by every LifeTeen team member in every State and every Parish, it would take a large team of “inspectors” who would make random visits to each Mass and LifeNight session. I have not done the math, but, it would take a considerable bankroll to support such a staff and travel budget.

**Any program is only as good as the human beings involved in it./**QUOTE]

Exactly. So if a sizeable number of those at the local level are “progressive” minded as seems to be the case, then what would it really matter what Lifeteen itself stands for? If there is no oversight as you seem to suggest then any manner of abuses could and do occur with impunity. As I have been to quite a few Lifeteen functions nationwide I can attest that abuses have occured, still occur and in all liklihood, given your assesment of the situation, will continue to occur.

 

[kage_ar]

Exactly. So if a sizeable number of those at the local level are “progressive” minded as seems to be the case, then what would it really matter what Lifeteen itself stands for? If there is no oversight as you seem to suggest then any manner of abuses could and do occur with impunity. As I have been to quite a few Lifeteen functions nationwide I can attest that abuses have occured, still occur and in all liklihood, given your assesment of the situation, will continue to occur.

Not saying there is no oversight, I do not work in the management of LifeTeen - the point I tried to make is that to expect micromanagemnt be done to assure that no one is playing loosey goosey with LifeTeen would take a huge staff and deep pockets. Not many Catholic ministries have either.

If there are 10 LT groups in each of 50 states, that is 500 groups.

There are 52 weekends in a year. For excellent Quality Control, a random inspection would need to be, what, every quarter?

Since people do need vacation and time home, let’s say one person can travel 40 weekends out of the year for LT compliance inspection. Do you realize that for 500 groups that would take a staff of 50 people? With decent salary, benefits and travel expense, we are around a 5 million dollar anual budget.

My point is that Lifeteen can have the best regulations on earth, it is unfair to blame the program because some do not abide by the rules.

 

[wjj2001]

I don’t think LT is intended to replace religious ed, but to supplement it. We don’t have LT, but do have a youth night that is probably similar in structure. We still have overflowing religious ed almost every day. They compliment each other.

As for music, besides drums, the Bible does mention a few other instruments: harps, strings, and cymbals (actually, “clashing cymbals”). No pipe organs that I could find, not that I don’t enjoy them. If we want tradition, let’s all sing in Aramaic and Greek. Look at the dates our “traditional” hymns were written. Most of them 1600 to 1800 - hardly “tradition” for a “Tradition” over 2,000 years old.

But who cares??? I think we all have more important things to worry about - vocations, abortion, poverty to name a few.

 

[Steeltemplar]

There is no doubt that over time new additions are made to tradition. Yet in order to become truly authentic parts of that timeless tradition these things need to be worthy of such a place in our worship. The traditional hymns, the great sacred works, solemn chant, and breathtaking polyphony all survive in the Catholic life because of their value.

Age is not what I care about when it comes to music for the Mass. Rather, it is the content of the lyrics and the tone of the music which should be considered. Solemnity, reverence, dignity, humility - these things are important for the atmosphere of the Holy Sacrifice. They aid us in worship, for we humans are physical beings after all and music effects us greatly.

 

[palmas85]

Not saying there is no oversight, I do not work in the management of LifeTeen - the point I tried to make is that to expect micromanagemnt be done to assure that no one is playing loosey goosey with LifeTeen would take a huge staff and deep pockets. Not many Catholic ministries have either.

If there are 10 LT groups in each of 50 states, that is 500 groups.

There are 52 weekends in a year. For excellent Quality Control, a random inspection would need to be, what, every quarter?

Since people do need vacation and time home, let’s say one person can travel 40 weekends out of the year for LT compliance inspection. Do you realize that for 500 groups that would take a staff of 50 people? With decent salary, benefits and travel expense, we are around a 5 million dollar anual budget.

My point is that Lifeteen can have the best regulations on earth, it is unfair to blame the program because some do not abide by the rules.

If the program cannot control those who work under its auspices then who can? And if no one can, then isn’t there an inherent danger present that abuse can occur?

Given the fact that the organization has already had to come down pretty hard on its associates, don’t you think it would behoove them to try to maintain oversight oversight the programs?

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

I have been to “teen” Masses before. I absolutely cannot stand them. There is rock music, which is completely inappropriate for the Mass, the kids serving, ushering, and performing as readers and EMsHC did not even attempt to dress up at all, and there was Protestant-like swaying with the music, which was so loud it was hard to pray after Communion. There are always liturgical abuses in these teen Masses.

That being said, I think that LifeTeen itself is a good program, but the way they do their Masses is horrible. The kids come for “fun time” because they have rock music (again, not appropriate for the Catholic Mass), because their friends go to the Mass, and because most teen Masses are in the evening, as opposed to early Sunday morning.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[benedictgal]

As for music, besides drums, the Bible does mention a few other instruments: harps, strings, and cymbals (actually, “clashing cymbals”). No pipe organs that I could find, not that I don’t enjoy them. If we want tradition, let’s all sing in Aramaic and Greek. Look at the dates our “traditional” hymns were written. Most of them 1600 to 1800 - hardly “tradition” for a “Tradition” over 2,000 years old.

But who cares??? I think we all have more important things to worry about - vocations, abortion, poverty to name a few.

I beg to differ, as these comments sound rather flippant when talking about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The most important thing that we do as Catholics is to offer God worship through the Eucharistic Sacrifice. Remember that the Holy Eucharist is the source and summit of our lives. What good is it to worry about vocations, abortion and poverty if we throw the Mass by the wayside.

Your comments regarding instruments bear a response. In this case, the answers come from both the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy and then-Cardinal Ratzinger. The Constitution, approved during the Second Vatican Council, states that the organ holds pride of place in musical instruments used for worship.

As Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope Benedict wanrs against using secular music, especially “the so-called ‘parody Masses’ in which the texts of the Mass are set to a theme or melody that came from secular music, with teh result that anyone hearing it might think he is listening to the latest ‘hit’.” Unfortunately, this type of music employs electric guitars, drums and keyboards.

You say that most of the hymns are written between 1600 and 1800. However, there are some that are older than that. All of these hymns reflect the true Tradition of the Church as they are deeply rooted in deep theological meaning. In fact, some have been written by some of the greatest saints of all time, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Bernard of Clairvoux and others.

If the idea of LifeTeen is to hand down the faith to younger generations, then, at least as far as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass goes, we are, as Ratzinger likes to say, “barking up the wrong tree.” Yes, we do need to present the Truth to young people, but not at the cost of throwing out everything that is beautiful and sacred.

 

[lilnun_77]

I’m a teen - and while I have no problem with life night I wouldn’t recommend a “teen mass”. Instead of praise and worship music, try some tradition. Try getting the choir or maybe just one cantor to sing the Kyrie in Greek, the Sanctus in Latin, and the Agnus Dei in Latin. If it is Sunday a Gloria in Latin as well.

You can view the Kyriale Romanum here.

Catholig

I agree 100%
I love the life nights though:thumbsup:
they are very fun AND informative which is good![SIGN]Laudatis Deum[/SIGN]

 

[VietCatholic83]

as a 24 year old cradle catholic who is active within a parish that includes a “Life teen” liturgy on sundays, I have heard many arguments for and against the program. many good points have been brought up by people on this thread. Regarding the actual liturgy, I believe that churches should follow the rubrics of the mass. simple as that. I understand the desire for a number of people who sincerely feel “closer” to God when they surround the altar at the eucharistic prayer however i propose that if member want to continue this practice, would it not be more appropriate to kneel near the altar? wouldn’t that be a more inspiring sight to see so many young people kneeling in humble adoration at Our Lord in the Eucharist? As far as the music goes, opinions regarding contemporary praise and worship music is merely asthetic and relative. the real issue is it’s appropriateness for the liturgy. the liturgy is about the worship of almighty God and ONLY God. I personally like some of the contemporary music such as “trading my sorrows” “Amazing love” etc, but they were NOT written for Catholic worship. it’s use of the words “me” “I” etc reduce the liturgy into merely a personal, emotional experience.

I have read some comments that the lifeteen curriculum is “watered-down” catechesis and I whole heartedly agree. It does not give the teens enough credit and patronizes them. too much time is wasted playing games and activities that have nothing to do with the lesson or very little to do with the lesson rather than spending that time getting at the heart of the subject. sometimes the games are meant to relate to the lesson however many catechists do a poor job of connecting them. also, a lot of it is just plain cheesey, trying to he “hip” and “cool” which they think teens will relate to. many times i think it is counter productive. Teens and all catholics need and long to hear the truth of the Gospel and the Truths of our faith. we need to do a better job.

AMDG

 

[benedictgal]

as a 24 year old cradle catholic who is active within a parish that includes a “Life teen” liturgy on sundays, I have heard many arguments for and against the program. many good points have been brought up by people on this thread. Regarding the actual liturgy, I believe that churches should follow the rubrics of the mass. simple as that. I understand the desire for a number of people who sincerely feel “closer” to God when they surround the altar at the eucharistic prayer however i propose that if member want to continue this practice, would it not be more appropriate to kneel near the altar? wouldn’t that be a more inspiring sight to see so many young people kneeling in humble adoration at Our Lord in the Eucharist? As far as the music goes, opinions regarding contemporary praise and worship music is merely asthetic and relative. the real issue is it’s appropriateness for the liturgy. the liturgy is about the worship of almighty God and ONLY God. I personally like some of the contemporary music such as “trading my sorrows” “Amazing love” etc, but they were NOT written for Catholic worship. it’s use of the words “me” “I” etc reduce the liturgy into merely a personal, emotional experience.

I have read some comments that the lifeteen curriculum is “watered-down” catechesis and I whole heartedly agree. It does not give the teens enough credit and patronizes them. too much time is wasted playing games and activities that have nothing to do with the lesson or very little to do with the lesson rather than spending that time getting at the heart of the subject. sometimes the games are meant to relate to the lesson however many catechists do a poor job of connecting them. also, a lot of it is just plain cheesey, trying to he “hip” and “cool” which they think teens will relate to. many times i think it is counter productive. Teens and all catholics need and long to hear the truth of the Gospel and the Truths of our faith. we need to do a better job.

AMDG

I think the point that I have been trying to make is that Protestant praise and worship music is not suitable for liturgy, Life Teen or otherwise. As Catholics, we need to use music that is consistent with Catholic teaching.

You are correct regarding the nature of many of these hymns. While we need to have a relationship with Jesus, as Catholics, we don’t do it in a vacuum. Pope Benedict has stressed this important fact in many of his audiences and in many of his homilies. Furthermore, we don’t come together for a simple prayer service. We celebrate the sacred mysteries of the Eucharistic sacrifice with sobriety and solemnity. Something that is missing in “Life Teen.”

We need to teach our youth that there is a “wholly other” that happens during the Mass and that we are in the presence of something beyond ourselves. When you have Protestant pop music (with drums, electric guitars and keyboards), you bring in an element that is foreign to Catholic worship. You bring in something that is contrary to the church’s liturgical practices.

Yes, Life Teen is an apostolate of the Catholic Church. For that matter, so, too, is the Neocatechumenal Movement. However, when Pope Benedict learned that they were celebrating Mass contrary to the norms and rubrics of the Roman Missal, he put a stop to that and told the movement that it needed to adhere to what the Church asks. Quite a few have been defiant. However, Benedict holds his stand.

 

[WakeUpNeighbour]

As for music, besides drums, the Bible does mention a few other instruments: harps, strings, and cymbals (actually, “clashing cymbals”). No pipe organs that I could find, not that I don’t enjoy them. If we want tradition, let’s all sing in Aramaic and Greek. Look at the dates our “traditional” hymns were written. Most of them 1600 to 1800 - hardly “tradition” for a “Tradition” over 2,000 years old.

Right. I agree the above.
Since the “tradition” in general culture means something given to the next generation we must admit that catholic church TODAY has reached Youth weakly (and often with poor liturgy also) … our Bishop said, that our (Catholic church in our country) inner weakness is in giving tradition of faith to our new generation. Only what IS ALIVE can be given to other (tradition). A living faith can. Perhaps we gave sacraments to many young people (sacramentalism until the confirmation mostly works), but not much more. Anyway, Jesus Christ reached many of them (teens & young adults also) and they started to “sing Him a new song” with “all their heart” and knowledge in “music and instruments”, as Bibble says. Some of that music is “recognized as inspired by God and appropriate for the liturgy” by the Church. So this music forms a contemporary Catholic society and becomes a tradition as much as it is fertile, ie. able to give faith to a new generation of Catholics.
Well, not by itself but by Him, LifeTeen program (I do not claim that for every Parish implementation and staff!) serves Church and Christ in this culture and helps to create an atmosphere and power of the Truth to become a “living tradition”, life giving community arround the altar (not literally of course, according to GIRM).
Pope Benedict enlightened that latin chants & Mass has great importance for it built the Catholic Church until today and especially Gregorian Chants & choral etc. is the highest developed worship that must be kept alive. Sure it “gives life” also since God Himself is behind the liturgy. Anyway modern Youth Ministry liturgy is able to reproduce Gregorian chants and holly atmosphere (!!!) as well - our biggest YM band keeps Gregorian choral as well as Praise&Worship or other. Thanks to our music minister (and Thanks God & Holly Church of course ).

But who cares??? I think we all have more important things to worry about - vocations, abortion, poverty to name a few.

Yet, a decent contemporary Parish (youth) ministry brings vacations, protects life & “chastity with purpose”, stretches a hand of loving help to the poor …
JC rules!

 

[benedictgal]

Right. I agree the above.
Since the “tradition” in general culture means something given to the next generation we must admit that catholic church TODAY has reached Youth weakly (and often with poor liturgy also) … our Bishop said, that our (Catholic church in our country) inner weakness is in giving tradition of faith to our new generation. Only what IS ALIVE can be given to other (tradition). A living faith can. Perhaps we gave sacraments to many young people (sacramentalism until the confirmation mostly works), but not much more. Anyway, Jesus Christ reached many of them (teens & young adults also) and they started to “sing Him a new song” with “all their heart” and knowledge in “music and instruments”, as Bibble says. Some of that music is “recognized as inspired by God and appropriate for the liturgy” by the Church. So this music forms a contemporary Catholic society and becomes a tradition as much as it is fertile, ie. able to give faith to a new generation of Catholics.
Well, not by itself but by Him, LifeTeen program (I do not claim that for every Parish implementation and staff!) serves Church and Christ in this culture and helps to create an atmosphere and power of the Truth to become a “living tradition”, life giving community arround the altar (not literally of course, according to GIRM).
Pope Benedict enlightened that latin chants & Mass has great importance for it built the Catholic Church until today and especially Gregorian Chants & choral etc. is the highest developed worship that must be kept alive. Sure it “gives life” also since God Himself is behind the liturgy. Anyway modern Youth Ministry liturgy is able to reproduce Gregorian chants and holly atmosphere (!!!) as well - our biggest YM band keeps Gregorian choral as well as Praise&Worship or other. Thanks to our music minister (and Thanks God & Holly Church of course ).

Yet, a decent contemporary Parish (youth) ministry brings vacations, protects life & “chastity with purpose”, stretches a hand of loving help to the poor …
JC rules!

The big problem is that contemporary Protestant Praise and Worship music is not suitable for the Mass. It is a genre that might work for a retreat setting (or the Life Night–and, provided that the words are not contrary to Catholic teaching). Furthermore, Pope Benedict XVI was very clear in Sacramentum Caritatis that “we cannot say that one song is as good as another.” Remember that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist found the music at Youth Masses very problematic.

As far as instruments, Musica Sacram is very clear on what is allowed and what is not.

Lastly, there are some very serious concerns that I have with the way that LifeTeen program sees the Mass. This exerpt from their Liturgical Planning Guide is most troubling:

In the days before the Vatican Council, the Church was so concerned that mystery be preserved that it cloaked the mysteries Jesus revealed to us. When man-made mysteries
were eliminated by the Liturgical reforms of the Second
Vatican Council, many people still complain that the mystery
was being eliminated. This is incorrect. The mystery is
more intense than ever because it is directly in front of us.

This is a very problematic statement that really goes against what the Second Vatican Council did. No where in the documents did it say that VII referred to “man-made mysteries.” If this is what LifeTeen is trying to instill in its Masses, then it is in grave error.

 

[jc-servant]

If the program cannot control those who work under its auspices then who can? And if no one can, then isn’t there an inherent danger present that abuse can occur?

Given the fact that the organization has already had to come down pretty hard on its associates, don’t you think it would behoove them to try to maintain oversight oversight the programs?

Each pastor must approve having LT in his parish. If the pastor is doing his job, then any problems with LT or any other ministry will be corrected. The same thing goes for the bishop of each diocese. If there is a problem at a particular parish with LT or anything else, then a complaint to the bishop should get some action at that level or else why have the “oversight” function of a bishop. It is far more practical to address any local problems in the manner I described than expecting one national office to send inspectors to 100’s of parishes.

 

[benedictgal]

Each pastor must approve having LT in his parish. If the pastor is doing his job, then any problems with LT or any other ministry will be corrected. The same thing goes for the bishop of each diocese. If there is a problem at a particular parish with LT or anything else, then a complaint to the bishop should get some action at that level or else why have the “oversight” function of a bishop. It is far more practical to address any local problems in the manner I described than expecting one national office to send inspectors to 100’s of parishes.

Unfortunately, many local Ordinaries don’t even respond to complaints of liturgical abuse in non-LifeTeen Masses, much less those committed by the movement.

Inasmuch as each pastor must approve LT for use in his parish, he would do well to fully investigate the movement (as should be done for all movements that want to set up shop in the parish).

 

[jc-servant]

The big problem is that contemporary Protestant Praise and Worship music is not suitable for the Mass. It is a genre that might work for a retreat setting (or the Life Night–and, provided that the words are not contrary to Catholic teaching). Furthermore, Pope Benedict XVI was very clear in Sacramentum Caritatis that “we cannot say that one song is as good as another.” Remember that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist found the music at Youth Masses very problematic.

As far as instruments, Musica Sacram is very clear on what is allowed and what is not.

Lastly, there are some very serious concerns that I have with the way that LifeTeen program sees the Mass. This exerpt from their Liturgical Planning Guide is most troubling:

This is a very problematic statement that really goes against what the Second Vatican Council did. No where in the documents did it say that VII referred to “man-made mysteries.” If this is what LifeTeen is trying to instill in its Masses, then it is in grave error.

You appear to have misread the statement regarding man-made mysteries in your eager condemnation of what you believe LT does and is. The point was that with some of the later man-made additions being eliminated there were complaints about the mass that LT is saying are not valid. The idea that the manual is emphasizing is that the sacred mystery is still there after Vatican II and in fact it is more easily seen by people in the NO mass. The LT statement quoted is not endorsing making up new “man-made mysteries” which is how you seem to be interpreting the statement. The statement does not “go against” Vatican II by stating that the sacred mystery remains in the mass in the NO.

Additionally, your statements regarding the music used are overbroad generalizations because quite frankly you don’t know what music is used in every LT mass. My parish happens to use a mix of contemporary Catholic music (not all contemporary music is P&W or Protestant BTW), Catholic hymns from various centuries in English, some Protestant music that has lyrics consistent with Catholic teaching and more old Latin music than the other masses which use an “adult choir.”

If there is an up tempo P&W type of song, it is most always the last thing after the closing prayer of dismissal which ends the liturgy. Therefore, technically that song is not within the mass itself but directly afterward. The music also changes with the appropriate seasons of the church including a very scaled back period during Lent with minimal instrumentation (perhaps just piano or voices) and no closing hymn at all. Everyone leaves in silence at all of our masses including LT. I don’t assume that all LT masses use the same discretion in choosing their music or anything else because there is no one comprehensive source that I’ve found that monitors such things.

 

[agapewolf]

Seeing as how there was no link provided to the “manual” and its just taken word for it that it exists, also, without any context and why it was put it I find that problematic that it is consistently being quoted.

I have liturgy guides that go back about 8 years and have not seen it anyway.

 

[benedictgal]

Seeing as how there was no link provided to the “manual” and its just taken word for it that it exists, also, without any context and why it was put it I find that problematic that it is consistently being quoted.

I have liturgy guides that go back about 8 years and have not seen it anyway.

Agapewolf and jc-servant, how can you, then, explain this? Is this what is being promoted at LifeTeen? If it is, then there are some serious errors. For example, one doesn’t have to see the Consecration in order for it to take place. Furthermore, these “mand-made” mysteries are not such things becasue they come to us directly from Jesus, himself.

Jc-servant, I have read the texts of many of these so-called contemporary Catholic songs, especially the ones that OCP continuously plugs. Many place more of an emphasis on the community or on the individual person rather than on the worship of God. Some of them also have dubiuos items that aren’t necessarily consistent with Catholic Faith, such as I Myself, am the Bread of Life. Unfortunately, the LT Mass guide for 2007 advocates singing this type of music during Easter Sunday as a way of creating fellowship. What about worship and adoration of God? Is that second place?

The bottom line is that these so-called Youth Liturgies are no more than bread and circus, a lot of celebration but very little in the way of solid Tradition. Now, this is taken from the St. Thomas Moore (Houston, Texas) LifeTeen page:

Life Teen works for many reasons. Mainly, it transforms something that may have seemed so foreign, boring, and antiquated to the eyes of an adolescent - the mass- into a joyful and rejoicing festival of thanksgiving, praise, and love. Many teens, and in fact all of us, need to feel loved and comforted in group gatherings for growth to occur. Life Teen is a way of unlocking the incredible power of God’s Love so that the Eucharist is a life changing experience every week. We accomplish this in a few ways: 1) alternative contemporary hymns during the mass; 2) The youth gathering around the altar during the celebration of the Eucharist; 3) Teen participation as ministers, be it extraordinary Eucharistic, lector, or offertory; 4) Dynamic and engaging teen programming throughout the week, and especially on Sundays after mass - Life Nights -; 5) Retreats. Life Teen asks that each LT youth group take its teens on at least two retreats per year, and these trips often are the most real and formative experiences of the entire year; 6) Young adult volunteers. Core Members, an elite group of usually college age adults willing to assist the youth minister, critically perform functions such as planning skits and life nights, leading small group discussions, and just being friends to the teens. Their help is one of the main ways that we are able to show God’s Love to teens. Click here for more information on how to be a core member. For more on our programming, please visit our programs page. For more on our music, visit out music page.

I certainly hope #2 is no longer the case in Houston, although the website does make a big fuss about it. All in all, from what I could read of the Houston example, it really doesn’t have much substance to it. They even refer to one of the lay ministers as a “youth pastor”. That sounds very Protestant. Of course, the young man could very well be a priest, but, you couldn’t tell from the vague description.

 

[lilnun_77]

I am part of a LT parish and yes I don’t enjoy the LT Mass as much as the regular Mass, BUT when I do go the songs are always very God oriented . I think you have to be very careful about not over stereotyping the “youth Mass” because they can be very nice and worshipful.

 

[AquinaSavio]

As for music, besides drums, the Bible does mention a few other instruments: harps, strings, and cymbals (actually, “clashing cymbals”).

I know this was written over two months ago…but I had to respond. You will note that the term “clashing cymbals” is used in conjunction with a “noisy gong” and used to describe someone who acts without love. St. Paul seems to think of them with contempt.

But who cares??? I think we all have more important things to worry about - vocations, abortion, poverty to name a few.

None of those things are more important than the profanation of the Eucharist…and when the liturgy is performed improperly, that’s exactly what it is.