Cat:
No you asked it because you wanted to add it into the thread, you already know I’m from Scotland hence there was no point in the question except to record it on this thread.
Spending time with teenagers does not equate to being one, nor does it mean that what you think they like/want necessarily bears any resemblance to what they do.
You try to minimise others contribution by finding fault with them, probably because you either can’t or won’t do so with their argument, apart from anything else it’s not a very Christian thing to be doing. For example you raised the point of how on earth children would learn chant when they don’t have Catholic schools to teach them it, instead of responding to Patienceandlove’s post where she says in her experience how much easier someone found it to pick up chant as opposed to modern hymns you start telling us about how different 13 year olds and 24 year olds are.
I’m doing a Maths degree, those concepts were introduced well before the teenage years in our schools and in other countries they are introduced still earlier, the ability to think abstractly is not innate, most of the time it must be taught. If a country decides not to put a lot of effort into teaching it until they’re teenagers then it shouldn’t be all that surprising if they don’t all pick up complex numbers on a whim.
Yet the first comment you felt it worth writing in your last response to her was “You’re making some huge generalizations about teenagers and young people (and boomers, too–a lot people my age do not enjoy “traditional” music)”? And despite the fact you quote her post at the top you almost completely ignored the substantive point, as you’ve done almost every other time I’ve seen you post. And you certainly didn’t seem to take much account of what the quote provided from the Pope said, in which he explicitly mentions the rock genre which you are apparently so in favour of having at Mass.
Yet earlier you were telling us your opinion that teenagers don’t think abstractly was based on studies your husband has read? Does that count as real life? If it does perhaps you could have a go at explaining the study presented on a previous thread where teenagers of almost all faiths and none favoured traditional hymns and Chant ahead of other genres, including P&W and rock, for Mass. I can tell you which is more reliable mathematically when it comes down to Cat’s real life and a study of a few hundred teenagers.
You are still missing the point. Teenagers growing up today are in a completely different situation to that which their parents and grandparents grew up in. For their parents it was often the swinging 60s, the time of VII with the changes that it caused for many people, for their grandparents it was the TLM and traditional practices at least some of which vanished from many Parishes after VII. Coming from those different backgrounds unless you actually comprehend what teenagers are saying and are willing to listen to them then you are almost certainly going to come out with the wrong answer. Falling back on what you like or what you wanted when you were a teenager, either in the Catholic Church or Protestant, is not going to work. And it is far too complex an issue to just say ‘teenagers go to this Mass, hurrah the rock music gets them to Church’.
What you have read? So you read the quote Benedictgal provided from Pope Benedict earlier, right? Perhaps you can give us your view on it, especially the part where he writes "On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal. “
Rock", on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. …the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments.”
Instead of responding to the first parts of this post most of which have resulted from side issues you’ve brought up perhaps you could try responding to something substantive, either from this or previous posts.
In particular I think you’ve said previously that you don’t attend the TLM, how do you know how many teenagers attend? In addition is it likely to be at a time when most teenagers will be able to get there, do you have any evidence that they go to that Mass for the music rather than any other factor? Furthermore if you have time to actually respond to something other than a direct question your response to the following would be appreciated:
“And please stop being so patronising, the faith which Catholic teenagers have is the same Catholic Faith which has been handed down since the time of the Apostles. If we are going to Mass it is to participate in our Catholic Faith, it would be nice if we could have Catholic music, and hear about the example from Scripture of how to lead a Catholic life rather than whatever music was written back in the 60s, which was also probably the last time it was popular to mainstream teenagers, if it ever was, and some homily which is often low on substance. Look at the reaction Pope Benedict got at WYD, Homilies should be challenging, the Mass, and every part of it, should be an invitation to grow and deepen involvement in the Faith, superficial music and liturgy doesn’t do that do that.”
