Lifeteen Discussion (cont.)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris-WA
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Chris-WA

Guest
This is easliy explained in lifeteens motto “leading teens closer to Christ” Lifeteens goal is to serve the underchurched and unchurched. It’s format, discussions and teachings do assume that kids dont know the basics. For 95% of the kids thats true. They dont know basic bible stories, they dont know squat about Mass and they know zero moral teaching. I learned more in 1 year of lifeteen than in the 8years of post 1st communion CCD.
Click to expand...
I think you have made a very good point, and also one that is very telling. I used to be an RE teacher for teenagers, and I can confirm what you said about how most of the teens know next to nothing about the bible, the Church, or anything else about our religion. For example, if I told them to open up their bibles to say Matthew 16:18, most of them would not be able to find it.

I believe this sad state of catechesis is the greatest threat to the Church today, and it’s not just teens either–most Catholic adults are in the same boat as well. We are in the midst of a multi-generational crisis of faith when it comes to catechesis, which I believe is also the root cause of so many other problems, such as people leaving the church, lack of mass attendance, lack of reverence, lack of tithing, liberal interpretation of Catholic teaching, etc. I don’t know how it came to be, but somehow over the last 30 years we have largely abandoned good solid catechesis in favor of a lot of nonsense, and we are now reaping the consequences.

The Church rightly so expects parents to be the primary faith educators of children, but the problem now is that most parents today are not equipped with enough catechesis themselves to fulfill that duty. The ball has been dropped, there is rampant apathy, and we are limping along. So Lifeteen is basically a last-ditch emergency effort to keep teens in the Church who otherwise would be apathetic to religion at all.

To solve this crisis, there are practical things that can be done. First of all, we have got to get Catholic adults properly catechized. Many Protestant churches have Sunday school every week for every age group from the day you join until the day you die. Not only that, but there is a cultural expectation that everyone attends Sunday school. I think we need that kind of culture–one which values RE for adults as much as for youth. How many of you have gone to an adult ed class at your parish that maybe had a dozen or so participants out of thousands of parishioners? That is truly sad, and what does that say about us as Catholics? You cannot love what you do not know.

Secondly, I think there would be a great benefit to some standardization of catechesis if not world-wide, then at least nation-wide. You can go to one parish that has good RE, and another that has terrible RE, even within the same diocese. Should not the teachers have an approved syllabus for each grade level that was either written by Rome or by the USCCB? We are supposed to be the universal Church, but we don’t educate that way. No matter what country you live in or what language you speak, the truths of Catholicism are the same and should be taught. I think right now we leave too much up to the individual RE programs/teachers to decide for themselves what is worth teaching, and there is the additional danger that more “liberal” Catholics tend to skip things they don’t like. I witnessed this myself as an RCIA sponsor.
Society is not the way it is because of Lifeteen, but lifeteen is the way it is because of society. Its one of the only groups that has the ability to keep post-confirmation kids in Church. Many good vocations and marriages have come out of the participants. It also helps the average layman reach teens with its nationwide support and “core” princible centered in prayer.
Click to expand...
I basically agree with you, except I wouldn’t put the onus on society, but would narrow that down to Catholic society. We shouldn’t have to worry about keeping teens in the Church, but we are in that position because we let it get that far in the first place. I think education is the key, especially for our adults.
 
I actually support the phillipano “Couples for Christ” which is a complete family-oreinted ministry.

The beauty of Lifeteen is that teens are old enough to make the decision to go but too young for other distractions like bars and children (most times). The did Lifeteen went to Steubenville for college generation is growing up and entering the world and already starting to change things for post-college ministry.

I clearly remeber one Lifeteen discussion where one girl spoke up, “We are the NEW generation. We wont give up like out grandparents did after the Latin change. We wont stop caring because we dont know anything like our parents. We are going to be the generation of change.”

Lifteen started in '85 and hit critical mass/franchize level in the late 90’s early 2000’s. This means that those who went through 4 years of lifeteen and 4-6yrs of college are just comming into the world. In my dioceses 10 of the 12 american-born seminarians under 30 attended Lifeteen at some point.

So again. Time will tell. So far the fruit looks good!
 
I should clarify that 3 or 4 of the seminarians did not attend as youth. They actually joined the “core” group of adults. Using the materials that lifeteen hq provides they were able to grow their faith and realize their calling wasnt to do their duty and help the LT group but to become a preist.

I know of two women who became sisters this way. Nuns/sisters are so much harder to track since they tend to live out of the public eye (unlike priests)
 
I wish the LifeTeen program that I attended was better in the mid-90s. It was pretty bad, but I think I, my brother and my friends probably were part of the 5% who should have been going to something a bit more deeper spiritually speaking and intellectually stimulating. It unfortunately helped turn my brother off to the faith for years, making Catholicism look like it was a watered-down, dumbed down faith, unfortunately. On top of that the kind of regular masses we were exposed to on Sunday wasn’t that spiritually inspiring for him either. He’s very analytical and I think needed a spiritual mentor who could talk to him at his level. I’ve always been sad he could never overlook it. He did like the paint gun field trips they would sometimes have, though 🤷

Has there ever been something pulled together for kids who are searching for something opposite of what Life Teen offers? Of course, it would probably serve a smaller base, but it seems unfair for those who are searching for something more that they have nothing to help them grow in their faith. I truly wanted something deeper, more intellectual and more serious, but it just always seemed like the teen and young adult stuff catered to one kind of group.
 
hudson said:
Like a lifeteen EF? Now that’s something I could get behind.
Click to expand...
Yes, something like that would be nice. An OF mass that doesn’t have an amplified band or rock-like music and more traditional music would have also been great for me. I also personally loved the Latin and English OF masses I attended and participated as a choir member in while in college. We did mostly music like this (all-volunteer choir, most of whom did not read music):
youtube.com/watch?v=9mdmco61Htk
youtube.com/watch?v=zeKvNxYMDxE
youtube.com/watch?v=iupnv_lpgx8
youtube.com/watch?v=-EJmByc5UBc&feature=related

As a musician, music is an outlet which brings me so much closer to God spiritually, so if we had something like that as a teenager for mass, I would have been spiritual ecstasy. 😃

The after mass activities be more discussion-based and mind challenging, delving deep into apologetics, scripture, faith, spirituality, etc.

This is a young adult mass at St. Patrick’s Cathedral. A mass like this to attend as a teen and as an adult in my early 20s would have been much more attractive to me than what I was exposed to as a teen as well, if there was no church that had choirs or choral music like above. It’s perfect for me as a person in my early 30s now. 🙂

youtube.com/watch?v=lcc1n4L-Tfk
 
As a young person, I would also prefer if Lifeteen had more traditional liturgy, and even the EF. 🙂 I don’t think it’s necessary to have the band, etc. I think it would be inspiring to the teens to see the beauty of the Mass and then for the priest to describe what the Mass truly is and about the Eucharist 🙂

I also think Adoration is great to introduce young people to. This can really change their lives and bring them to Christ. Encouraging them to pray the Rosary is really great also. We don’t really need to invent, we have everything we need in the Church 🙂 many young people just don’t know about it, sadly, because they have not been told about it.
 
Monica4316 said:
As a young person, I would also prefer if Lifeteen had more traditional liturgy, and even the EF. 🙂 I don’t think it’s necessary to have the band, etc. I think it would be inspiring to the teens to see the beauty of the Mass and then for the priest to describe what the Mass truly is and about the Eucharist 🙂

I also think Adoration is great to introduce young people to. This can really change their lives and bring them to Christ. Encouraging them to pray the Rosary is really great also. We don’t really need to invent, we have everything we need in the Church 🙂 many young people just don’t know about it, sadly, because they have not been told about it.
Click to expand...
So the question now becomes which is better in the long run for teens (and all Catholics for that matter)–a reverently done Mass in conformity with all the rubrics, the GIRM, and *Redemptionis Sacramentum, *or a rock-band style mass that is entertaining?
 
Chris-WA said:
So the question now becomes which is better in the long run for teens (and all Catholics for that matter)–a reverently done Mass in conformity with all the rubrics, the GIRM, and *Redemptionis Sacramentum, *or a rock-band style mass that is entertaining?
Click to expand...
I’d say the latter. Once you’re used to something, it’s hard to switch. 🙂
 
Chris-WA said:
So the question now becomes which is better in the long run for teens (and all Catholics for that matter)–a reverently done Mass in conformity with all the rubrics, the GIRM, and *Redemptionis Sacramentum, *or a rock-band style mass that is entertaining?
Click to expand...
I think the reverently done Mass is better in the long run, because it helps to grow spiritually in a way that isn’t reliant on feelings or how entertaining something is. The rock-band style Mass could be an introduction for someone to Christianity, but the problem there is they might not realize from it just how holy the Mass is. With signs of outward (external) reverence, it’s easier to realize that.

I used to be non denominational Protestant, and went to a very contemporary style church with a rock band… it helped to introduce me to God, but I got attached to some aspects of it and it was difficult to ‘let go’ when it became obvious I need to be where the Sacraments are. At first, I couldn’t really appreciate Catholic worship. After a while though, I began liking traditional worship much more than the contemporary type, because it is more spiritually fulfilling. What I thought was spiritually fulfilling before was more about emotions, though it did help me to open up to God more.
 
There seems to be a focus on the externals, and people are projecting their view on how things “should look like” onto the organization.

People hear a kind of music, they see the Priest facing a certain way, speaking a certain language, standing/sitting, wearing certain clothes, and they automatically assume the worse. I’ve heard a lot of people say “those kids are wearing flipflops at Mass!”. What isn’t said is those teens who are wearing flipflops, it’s possibly the first time they’ve been in a Church in their entire lives, or the first time in several years. They don’t know the proper dress, they don’t know when to stand or sit.

I had a conversation with hudson the other day where he said that I had a “hatred for traditionalism”. Upon myself listing some of the traditionalist practices I do in my life, he said “well I didn’t know you did all of that. I judged you based on what I read”. This is a critical point; some people don’t advertise their piety or devotional practices, because they prefer austerity or humility. Or perhaps it’s a personal thing and they’d rather share those devotional practices 1vs1 in a less public setting.

We don’t know what’s on their hearts, we don’t know what brings them to the Mass. Like I said, some of these kids don’t know, and it’s up to us to let them know. This is one of my jobs at the Life Teen at my parish - I teach and I preach. For eight years I’ve seen all manner of kids come into the program, and I’ve talked to every one of them. I’ve taught several of them about the Faith. Some fell away, others don’t. We have two gentlemen who are in the seminary, one woman now runs the diocesan youth program in another diocese. We’ve had several members join an organization who does campus ministry. We’ve had SEVERAL (I lost track) teens and Core members go on a tour with NET Ministries (some of them did it twice). And of course, several young adults who get get into good Catholic relationships and find themselves married and being open to life. Oh, and someone’s joining a third order (but you all knew that one already).

Life Teen fills a role within the Church. It does take on a one-size fits all approach at times, but that is when you need to look outside the box and try to reach some of the teens where they are at. If some of them need more spiritual food, facilitate that while not alienating the new folks. This is difficult, but not impossible, and would have to be done at any parish.

There’s a lot of fruit that has been yielded. It’s a shame that people are getting caught up on what is visible versus what isn’t readily seen. Don’t get caught up on the music. Don’t get caught up on a video on youtube. Do not assume just because a Mass is said in Latin or uses chant that it is free from abuse.
 
Melchior said:
Life Teen fills a role within the Church. It does take on a one-size fits all approach at times, but that is when you need to look outside the box and try to reach some of the teens where they are at. If some of them need more spiritual food, facilitate that while not alienating the new folks. This is difficult, but not impossible, and would have to be done at any parish.

There’s a lot of fruit that has been yielded. It’s a shame that people are getting caught up on what is visible versus what isn’t readily seen. Don’t get caught up on the music. Don’t get caught up on a video on youtube. Do not assume just because a Mass is said in Latin or uses chant that it is free from abuse.
Click to expand...
I don’t negate the fact that there are teens (maybe most) who need this, but for teens who were like myself… we were definitely isolated and ignored because we are probably in the minority. I needed more spiritual depth. LifeTeen did not provide that depth. To me it was shallow. At that point in my life, I didn’t even know that there was Latin masses or traditional music at mass. I was told that no one did masses like that anymore. That it wasn’t allowed, that no one likes that old stuff anymore. So, I accepted that and it really wasn’t until a number of years later in college that I realized what I was told was wrong. It was still allowed and still done. What I did know at that time as a high school kid was that what I experienced at those teen masses and especially with the activities afterwards were shallow for me.

Believe me, I was so excited about going to these masses at first and really tried to make it work, because I was happy that there was something for young Catholics. I kept trying to make myself believe how great it was, but it was all a lie for me. I really wanted to expand my spiritual life and was so determined to make that program wonderful in my head. But I’m not one who can just ignore the truth for long. I had to come to terms that it was a failed program for me. I stress “for me”. It could have been that particular program at that parish or maybe not. The people involved running it were passionate and I think truly thought were doing their best and I’m sure they were doing their best. I hope that they made connections for other kids.

I’m not saying or insisting that all kids should be required to attend the masses or the after mass activities that I would have been spiritually fulfilled by (I even said that I was probably part of that 5% who would not have needed LifeTeen), but it would have been nice if there was another teen program for more introverted kids who do not respond well to that kind of mass format or kids who were a little further along on their spiritual journeys and need more depth. But it seems like there is rarely an outlet for the minority, which I don’t think is right. It’s as if our spiritual needs aren’t as important. Maybe they aren’t. Perhaps it’s assumed that we’ll stay faithful and are not as critical of losing our faith.

I’m not so blind and stupid that I don’t think that a mass said in Latin or a mass with traditional music is free of abuse. I’ve worked long enough behind the scenes at many different parishes to see the hypocrisy and cruelty that goes on as well as some of the abuses that can creep up, and some of them either by the priests themselves, the religious or the lay people. Humans can be disappointments. I rely on God and that which is neutral (sacred art, sacred music, etc. - things used by the Church for centuries to help all of us to become closer to God and His truths) and truly spiritual men and women to keep me focused on the truth of our faith.
 
There IS a program called “dead theologians society”. It is for teens who want to go deeper. However, it is only see where the number of knowlegable teens reaches 6 or 7.

It is not by lifeteen but ive seen it run parallel most often.

I also find it humorus that people complain that lifeteen caters to the “me” generation and in the same breath complain theres nothing for them/their kid. Really?
 
I grew up in the 1980’s, and did not participate in a program like Life Teen. Then again, my mother made sure I attended catechism classes, bible study, participated in various ministries/works of mercy, Mass attendance, and received the sacraments. But not all parents are as conscious about their kids spiritual life like my mother was and still is to this day. Not all parents can convince their kids to do what I did as a teen and young adult either.

To be honest, Life Teen can teach the young people to have the proper reverence and respect for Mass & the Sacraments. The musical settings I’ve heard about from other posts regarding LifeTeen Masses, don’t really bother me as long as they are not using songs not found in hymnals. I’d much rather they attend Mass, and get instruction in their faith, start to read the Bible/study it, and be taught the basics of Mass behavior/etiquette.
 
purplesunshine said:
There IS a program called “dead theologians society”. It is for teens who want to go deeper. However, it is only see where the number of knowlegable teens reaches 6 or 7.

It is not by lifeteen but ive seen it run parallel most often.

I also find it humorus that people complain that lifeteen caters to the “me” generation and in the same breath complain theres nothing for them/their kid. Really?
Click to expand...
That is nice to know there is now something out there. In the 90s there was nothing like that, at least in my diocese. I probably would have benefited from that. That said, I also don’t think it should just be for “knowlegeable” teens. There are introverted teens, who may not be as knowledgeable, but are looking for something deeper, who I think would also benefit.

I personally think that if LifeTeen works for certain kids, that’s great. I just don’t want people to falsely assume that just because there are/were some teens who did not get anything out of it, it meant that we were only “into the externals”. Ok, I have to get to my church job. Have a great Sunday everyone.
 
Chris-WA said:
So the question now becomes which is better in the long run for teens (and all Catholics for that matter)–a reverently done Mass in conformity with all the rubrics, the GIRM, and *Redemptionis Sacramentum, *or a rock-band style mass that is entertaining?
Click to expand...
The way this is worded, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. If I was in charge of Lifeteen and had the music associated with it, I still think it would be an easy sell to pitch a special no-instument Mass where the use would lead with chant as a one-time thing, as long as it was not set up as the advisarial situation we too often see here. As a kid, every summer we went on mission trips. Sometimes, we would learn all the songs in Spanish to be able to lead the church that was hosting us. No one thought it an imposition.

This is something Lifeteen people might think about, as an introduction for young people to this tradition, a way of giving back to the Church that supports them and as a bridge of peace within the community. Yes, I think this can be sold.
 
pnewton said:
The way this is worded, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. If I was in charge of Lifeteen and had the music associated with it, I still think it would be an easy sell to pitch a special no-instument Mass where the use would lead with chant as a one-time thing, as long as it was not set up as the advisarial situation we too often see here. As a kid, every summer we went on mission trips. Sometimes, we would learn all the songs in Spanish to be able to lead the church that was hosting us. No one thought it an imposition.

This is something Lifeteen people might think about, as an introduction for young people to this tradition, a way of giving back to the Church that supports them and as a bridge of peace within the community. Yes, I think this can be sold.
Click to expand...
Could you please clarify what you’re saying starting with the “If I was in charge?”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top