Lifeteen Mass, building block or misrepresentation

[James0235]

EENS:

I didn’t say all LT Masses are invalid; surely some are, as has been reported: not Consecrating both bread and wine (only bread), going against what the Bishop has commanded in regard to Liturgy (going around altar, worng music, dance, MAKING OUT AT THE SIGN OF PEACE!!???, etc.). There is no way to justify such behaviour.

The things that you mention are liturgical abuses - not Lifeteen specific abuses. And there are plenty of LT Masses that follow that rubrics perfectly. While I do not particularly care for LT Masses myself (even the ones done exactly according to the rubrics) I have been to maybe a couple of dozen different parishes using LT and have rarely witnessed some of the things you mentioned and some things I have never seen.

EENS:

We must, then, adhere to the Mass by the rubrics. We should ahdere to the Mass by the rubrics of all time (the Traditional Mass). God bless.

Amen! I attend the TLM nearly every week. But do you consider the N.O. to be valid at all?

James

 

[EENS]

Why, yes, the NO is valid; however, I think it is very lacking. It, even done in accord with the rubrics, is a disaster. Facing the people, vernacular, hand Communion, destruction of the Offertory and prayers at the foot of the altar, churches that move the Tabernacle to the corner, etc., etc. I am sure you know of NO abuses that are in accord with the newest rubrics. In the end, however, the NO is valid. God bless.

 

[James0235]

I believe I agree with everything you just wrote. The only point I really want to make is that probably a majority of LT Masses are no worse than your average Mass in your average parish. On top of that, there is much good that comes out of many LT programs.

James

 

[Isadore96]

IoA:

Does the program need to be tweaked? Absolutely. But does the fundamental premise of Life Teen need to be scrapped? I hope it never happens.

I agree that there should definately be programs that reach out to our teens.

 

[Isadore96]

EENS:

Transubstantiated?? I am sure that you know that the INTENTION of a Priest can validate or invalidate a Mass… if the Priest does not have the intention to “do what the Church does” the Sacrament is NOT confected. In any event, when the Sacrament IS confected, it is much more of a sin beause of the irreverence shown to the Blessed Sacrament. At least when there is no Consecration, there is only irreverence to a piece of bread. God bless.

SOME of the priests have good intentions and really think that LT can be good and helpful. So I think that although it may be an abomination, God honors the LT masses said by pastors who really think the LT Mass is good, as Masses. So we should pray for LT, that it may come closer to the truth.

 

[Isadore96]

EENS:

Why, yes, the NO is valid; however, I think it is very lacking. It, even done in accord with the rubrics, is a disaster. Facing the people, vernacular, hand Communion, destruction of the Offertory and prayers at the foot of the altar, churches that move the Tabernacle to the corner, etc., etc. I am sure you know of NO abuses that are in accord with the newest rubrics. In the end, however, the NO is valid. God bless.

The N.O Mass we have today is not what Vaican II intended. The modernists (a herisy) put forth their agenda and said, “Oh, although Vatican II says THIS, they really meant THAT, so we will do THAT in the ‘spirit of vatican II’”

 

[EENS]

Isadore96:

The N.O Mass we have today is not what Vaican II intended. The modernists (a herisy) put forth their agenda and said, “Oh, although Vatican II says THIS, they really meant THAT, so we will do THAT in the ‘spirit of vatican II’”

Oh, yes, I know that. Bugnini, a freemason, was the writer of the New Mass with the assistence of 6 protestants (calvinists). However, there are some errors in the documents themselves, both in what it states about the Mass and abotu other things. For example, the Mass should never be said in the vernacular. There is no such thing as “religious freedom” by which we can choose what religion we want based on our conscience, etc. That is, as you said, modernism, a heresy. However, modernism did not only extend to the interpreters but also to the documents of Vatican II themselves, as Paul VI states, “The smoke of Satan has entered the Church.” God bless.

 

[Exalt]

Oh, wow! There are some hot heads here.

LifeTeen’s purpose is to bring teens closer to Christ. They do this through good liturgy, good catechetical sessions, and good relational ministry.

Liketeen ministry started as a direct result of three men attempting to bring the Bishop’s idea of Youth Ministry into reality.

What is the Bishop’s idea of Youth Ministry? Well, they have compiled numerous documents on the subject. The most influential one was the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Renewing the Vision, “a blueprint for the continued development of effective ministry with young and older adolescents. (1)”

The Bishops plainly state that there are certain ministries within youth ministry: “ministries of advocacy, catechesis, community life, evangelization, justice and service, leadership development, pastoral care, and prayer and worship. (2)”

Within each ministry, the Church is called to be advocates for youth, “standing with and speaking on behalf of young people and their families. (3)” We are called to Catechize the youth, helping them to “believe that Jesus is the Son of God so that believing they might have life in his name, and to educate and instruct them in this life, thus building up the Body of Christ. (4)” We are called to help develop a vibrant Ministry of Community Life, which “builds an environment of love, support, appreciation for diversity, and judicious acceptance that models Catholic principles; develops meaningful relationships; and nurtures Catholic faith. (5)” We are called to bring the youth into Evangelization (6), Justice and Service (7), and positions of Leadership (8). The Church is also called to Pastoral Care (9) in relation to Adolescents and their families.

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[Exalt]

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Also, the Church is called to bring youth into Prayer and Worship. I will focus on this aspect because this is the issue that is being discussed: I am going to quote it in it’s entirety. READ IT. Then address how you feel about what the Bishop’s say and what you agree or disagree with. Also include how you would change it or how LifeTeen is implementing it incorrectly.
Renewing the Vision:

promotes the authentic participation of youth in liturgy (Parishes and schools can acknowledge adolescent faith issues at all liturgies in ways appropriate to the rites, provide opportunities for young people to be trained as liturgical ministers, schedule periodic youth event liturgies that are prepared with young people’s (name removed by moderator)ut and assistance, and invite young people to help prepare the community liturgies.);

attends to the diversity of cultures and ages in the assembly (All liturgy takes place within a cultural milieu and context. Respect for cultures and inclusion of native art, music, and expressions are visible components of vibrant worship. The rites need to reflect cultural diversity through the use of symbols, traditions, musical styles, and native language. Parishes and schools can provide opportunities for liturgical celebrations in which young people of different ethnic groups express their faith in their own language, symbols, and tradition. Parishes and schools can also provide experiences of other cultural worship styles and multicultural liturgies that bring people from all ethnic backgrounds together to celebrate. Adolescents reflect a distinct age group and “culture” within our society. Their language expressions, musical styles, and ways of life are often quite different from those of older generations. Those who prepare the liturgy need to find appropriate ways to incorporate the world of young people into worship, remembering that the “pastoral effectiveness of a celebration will be heightened if the texts of the readings, prayers, and songs correspond as closely as possible to the needs, religious dispositions, and aptitude of the participants” (GIRM no. 313). Parishes and schools can explore new music and song texts being composed for liturgy, and invite youth to act as cultural resources—letting the individuals or group know about current trends and expressions that may be reflected in the prayers, songs or rituals.);

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[Exalt]

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] provides opportunities for creative prayer with adolescents in peer, family, and intergenerational settings (Ministry with adolescents fosters and promotes the development of a personal prayer life in young people and celebrates the ritual moments of their daily lives in prayer. The symbols and rituals of liturgy become more meaningful for young people when they draw from their experiences of private prayer. Likewise, private prayer is revitalized by meaningful experiences of the liturgy. Ministry with adolescents also promotes opportunities for communal prayer. The liturgy of the hours, liturgies of reconciliation and healing, ethnic rituals and celebrations, and other ritual devotions allow for creativity and adaptation to the life issues and cultural expressions of young people. Communal prayer provides opportunities for young people of different ethnic cultures to express their faith in their own language, symbols, and traditions and for young people to experience multicultural prayer that brings people from all racial and ethnic backgrounds together to celebrate. Parishes and schools can schedule seasonal prayer experiences for and by youth for the parish community, involve young people in the preparation of prayer experiences for their peers, provide prayer resources, include personal prayer time within programs, and provide prayer mentors for young people. Parishes and schools can provide prayer and ritual resources for home settings that address the unique needs of families with adolescents, the calendar and church year celebrations and rituals, and family rituals, rites of passages and milestones.);
promotes effective preaching of the word (Parishes and schools can invite young people to reflect on the seasonal readings and to offer suggestions to the homilist for connections to young peoples’ lives, provide regular opportunities for adolescents to study the Scriptures, encourage those who preach to use current examples and storytelling techniques, and investigate the developments within culture for their impact on the “vernacular.”)

allows music and song to express the vitality of young people (The music of the young brings freshness and variety to our current musical genres and can perform the same infusion of energy and vitality to sacred music. Music is a significant part of personal expression for young people and that desire carries over to their participation in liturgy. Parishes and schools can invite adolescents to participate in the choirs and musical assemblies, explore contemporary accompaniments and focus on the song and pace of the music, expand the local repertoire of hymns and songs to include songs that young people would select, and encourage singing by the whole assembly so that adolescents feel more comfortable in adding their voices.)Post continued below because of space requirements.

 

[Exalt]

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Renewing the Vision:

prepares the symbols and ritual actions with particular care for their visual dimensions (Today’s young people have been educated through multimedia. Their visual sense is one of their primary ways of learning and responding to the environment. Parishes and schools can invite adolescents to assess the visual dynamics of the rituals and symbols prepared for liturgy, provide visual aids to encourage young people’s participation, and explore the appropriate use of multimedia at liturgy.);
develops the interpersonal and communal dimensions of the liturgy. (Parishes and schools can focus on the hospitality provided at liturgy, encourage young people to attend liturgy with their friends, build a sense of community among young people prior to liturgy, minister in a personal way, and affirm the presence of young people whenever possible.);

provides adolescents with effective and intentional catechesis for liturgy, worship, and sacraments (Young people are catechized by their participation in the liturgy; therefore, care must be taken to ensure that their experiences lead them to greater faith. Adolescents need catechesis for liturgy and the sacraments, but are also catechized by their experiences of liturgy. Through immersion in the symbols, stories, and rituals of the communal prayer life, adolescents gain not only a knowledge but an appreciation of the power of the sacraments. A specific objective of intentional catechesis for liturgy is to assist adolescents in exploring how liturgical symbols and rituals celebrate their experiences of God and life events. Parishes and schools can provide opportunities for intergenerational and family-centered catechesis for liturgy and can offer experiential, liturgical catechesis for young people.);

apprentices adolescents in liturgical ministries (Ministry with adolescents can advocate for youth involvement in liturgical ministries and connect young people with established liturgical ministers for training and experience of actually performing liturgical ministry.). (10)

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[Exalt]

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Lifeteen at most parishes do all these things very well. Are there some that over-do it and end up being less effective? Sure. However, that is nothing compared to the state of most parishes where none of these points are being met.
Lifeteen Masses are NOT principally about gathering around the altar. They are principally about including youth in the planning process, creating good homilies that speak to them, preparing a high-quality music practice, apprenticing youth in certain liturgical tasks, allowing teens to bring friends, et cetera.

(1) “Renewing the Vision” Introduction, Paragraph 3
(2) “Renewing the Vision” Part One, Signs of Hope, Paragraph 3
(3) “Renewing the Vision” Part Three, Ministry of Advocacy, Paragraph 7
(4) Catechism of the Catholic Church no. 4
(5) “Renewing the Vision” Part Three, Ministry of Community Life, Paragraph 1
(6) “Renewing the Vision” Part Three, Ministry of Evangelization
(7) “Renewing the Vision” Part Three, Ministry of Justice and Service
(8) “Renewing the Vision” Part Three, Ministry of Leadership Development
(9) “Renewing the Vision” Part Three, Ministry of Pastoral Care
(10) “Renewing the Vision” Part Three, Ministry of Prayer and Worship

 

[Exalt]

That is, as you said, modernism, a heresy. However, modernism did not only extend to the interpreters but also to the documents of Vatican II themselves

You know as well as I do that Vatican II was an Ecumenical Council, thus it is infalliable.

 

[rnartia]

A lot of interesting comments. I have been a part of the LIFE TEEN program since 1999 and so I speak with experience. The first thing I would like to point out is teens and adults have literally been transformed by this program. Many teens grow up to become priests or nuns or some lay minister. Second, the Pope himself has personally approved of LIFE TEEN during World Youth Day in Denver. Thirdly, Monsignor Dale Fushek the founder of LIFE TEEN and Vicar General for the diocese of Phoenix has instructed all parishes with LIFE TEEN to follow whatever their bishop tells them to. That means if a bishop does not want teens around the altar in his diocese than of course we have to listen. Finally, LIFE TEEN has been brought before the US Bishops and is currently under review in light of the new GIRM which will not take full effect till the next Church liturgical year.

Parishes that have done LIFE TEEN correctly have had a flood of graces pour out from the program which is evident in not just the teens but the parishioners themselves. Yes abuses have occured and there are programs that should be stopped for one reason or another. That is no different from other programs/movements out there such as the Charismatic movements or Opus Dei or even the Neo-Catechumenate. Remember the Church is human and it is only through the Holy Spirit which Jesus has promised that it still stands today. Like all programs, movements, and orders within the Church…it is prone to human error. LIFE TEEN works for some and doesn’t work for others. The question is preference because clearly the Vatican has not said anything about LIFE TEEN despite the fact that it is found in parishes around the world. The Pope said its ok at WYD Denver and Mother Teresa herself was hosted by LIFE TEEN parishes in the US. That’s two awesome people who clearly saw the Holy Spirit moving teens in LIFE TEEN parishes.

 

[pnewton]

I made my first LifeTeen Mass this past weekend to elcome my daughter home from a retreat. I will not return unless circumstances again make it appropriate for me to attend. The music (4 guitars and a drum set) was unbearably loud and the applause distracting. I would, however, never discourage those young people who receive so much grace from these Masses.

I only found one indisputably illicit practice. The words of the Creed were changed, shortened and simplified, to make them fit the music. There were also many other problematic areas (like the clapping).

However, I discovered that this type of Mass can be celebrated with reverence. When Christ was present on the altar, there was a reverential silence that was profound and all young peolpe there all treated His body with the utmost of respect. I was extremely impressed.

Next time I have to go, I’ll just wear ear protection.
May God bless our young people.

 

[James0235]

Exalt:

You know as well as I do that Vatican II was an Ecumenical Council, thus it is infalliable.

Not every document of every Council is infallible. A Council only speaks infallibly when it is defining a dogma. Vatican II is a little unique in that it did not actually define dogma. In many places throughout the 16 documents previously defined dogmas were restated. But that is it. Therefore, the Council did not invoke infallibility.
And just to clarify things - I don’t believe that there are any errors in the documents of Vatican II. Some things were written a bit ambiguoulsy but everything the Council said has an orthodox interpretation.

James

 

[Exalt]

And just to clarify things - I don’t believe that there are any errors in the documents of Vatican II.

I don’t think that’s what EENS thinks. =)

 

[Catholic_Girl_9]

I think it is a great idea to have a mass targeted to teenagers. I don’t think anyone has a problem with that. But why not introduce them to the beauty of our Latin liturgical traditions? Why do we always assume teens couldn’t relate or appreciate it? Would it be appropirate to change the music and the words of the mass to suit people of different age groups? The church is here to lift people up, not hold them down. I don’t think rock music is not well suited for the sacrafice of the mass and it generally is pretty cheesy.

 

[system]

Catholic_Girl 9:

I think it is a great idea to have a mass targeted to teenagers. I don’t think anyone has a problem with that.

Actually that is perhaps the biggest problem I have, it seems to be at the core of the Lifeteen program. I don’t think Mass should ever be “targeted” at anyone. We don’t have “retiree” masses, “single mom” masses, etc.

But LT creates this notion among teens that they are entitled to special treatment. What happens when they “graduate”? Many fall away. More than if LT hadn’t existed at all? I don’t know. But I do know that many parishes are responding to this by starting “Young Adult Ministry” programs, which seek to continue the social aspects of LT (“movie night”, “mini golf night”, etc.). Which continues to drive the “you are a special group” nail, rather than promote integration into the more general parish family.

If half the energy of LT programs was put into parish-wide activities, I think we’d all be better for it.

 

[Catholic_Girl_9]

Adolescence is a stressful time and teenagers are looking for acceptance and can easily get involved with the wrong crowd. I think you can treat them differently because they aren’t adults and they aren’t children. It is an impressionable time.