The problem with this statement, Father, is that it’s reciprocal. You can say that I’m lying when I say I’ve been to a reverent lifeteen mass (and I’ll admit, I’ve only been to one, so I can’t really formulate a statistic based on that… but at least it was reverent, even if I didn’t prefer the music). In return, I can just as easily accuse you of lying when you say you’ve never been to a reverent lifeteen mass… or I can just as easily say the OP was lying to defame an allowed movement within the church… or I can just as easily accuse the OP of being satan possessed and making things up in order to fracture the church.The amazing thing about a “reverent Life Teen Mass” is that it’s a bit like the abominable snowman or flying saucers. Plenty of people claim to have seen them, but no one seems able to provide any evidence that they actually exist.
I hear the same thing all the time “The Life Teen Mass at MY parish is reverent.” But I have yet to see it with my own eyes, no matter how many times I do see a LT Mass.
If you can reference a post where I said that someone was lying, by all means do so.The problem with this statement, Father, is that it’s reciprocal. You can say that I’m lying when I say I’ve been to a reverent lifeteen mass (and I’ll admit, I’ve only been to one, so I can’t really formulate a statistic based on that… but at least it was reverent, even if I didn’t prefer the music). In return, I can just as easily accuse you of lying when you say you’ve never been to a reverent lifeteen mass… or I can just as easily say the OP was lying to defame an allowed movement within the church… or I can just as easily accuse the OP of being satan possessed and making things up in order to fracture the church.
But if we start just telling every person who recounts any personal experience that they’re lying, this is rapidly going to become a very, very pointless section of the forum. I’ve never been to the fabled “clown mass”… in fact I’ve never seen a truly egregious error in person… but you don’t see me running around and saying “you’re lying” to people who claim they have…
I try to avoid Lifeteen Mass on Sunday night if at all possible, but sometimes it’s my only option when my kids have soccer games on Sunday mornings/afternoons. I actually feel embarrassed when I’m at a Lifeteen Mass with my wife and kids. The music is like going to a rock concert–very loud, totally irreverent (my 10 year old twins were covering their ears with their hands during the music it was so loud). Almost all the teens show up dressed as if they are going to the movies or a fast food joint. There was no kneeling during the consecration–everyone stands. During the consecration the priest invites all the teens to stand in front of the altar. I’ve never seen this done at any other Mass.
It appears to me that in some misguided effort to make the Mass more appealing to teens, we have cheapened and scrapped reverence in favor of entertainment. We have a standard in our family that because Mass is important and because we actually encounter Christ there, we treat it as important by dressing up a little–no jeans or flip flops or tennis shoes. My daughters are probably the only girls there wearing dresses. My sons are pretty much the only boys there wearing collared shirts and slacks. My kids actually feel uncomfortable at Lifeteen Mass because they are the only kids dressed like this. Am I going nuts or does nobody care about this kind of stuff anymore?
Overall I would say that Lifeteen takes great liberties that were never intended for the Mass. It feels cheap, dumbed down, and irreverent. I really can’t believe that our Chruch allows this to happen. What is going on?
Why shouldn’t the Church stoop down to our level? God stooped down to our level and became man. We cannot elevate ourselves to God by our own power. God came down to meet us where we are so that He may lift us up to Him. This is the Church extending the great mercy of her groom to the young ones of today.To be completely honest, as someone who is not very detached from his teenage years, I find the fact that the Church feels that they have to “stoop to our level,” so to speak, in order for us to go to mass and participate in the Church, is extremely insulting to my intelligence and that of others near my age. I think Lifeteen is awful for that very reason, that it inherently presumes that we are just young, dumb teenagers and we need a mass to fit that.
Great point.To be completely honest, as someone who is not very detached from his teenage years, I find the fact that the Church feels that they have to “stoop to our level,” so to speak, in order for us to go to mass and participate in the Church, is extremely insulting to my intelligence and that of others near my age. I think Lifeteen is awful for that very reason, that it inherently presumes that we are just young, dumb teenagers and we need a mass to fit that.
You are making a straw-man. I am 17 and from what I have seen on the internet and heard from other posters, LifeTeen Masses seem to fit YoungTradCath’s criteria.Why shouldn’t the Church stoop down to our level? God stooped down to our level and became man. We cannot elevate ourselves to God by our own power. God came down to meet us where we are so that He may lift us up to Him. This is the Church extending the great mercy of her groom to the young ones of today.
Would you be playing that instrument at the foot of Calvary at Christ’s sacrifice for mankind? We are taken back to that timeless moment during the consecration. Think about this when you decide on an instrument, that’s what I would be doing anyway.Is it possible for a Mass to be reverent with music that is other than organ or chant?
In other words, could a LifeTeen Mass be considered reverent if all aspects of the liturgy were perfect, but the music was provided from musical instruments (i.e., guitar, trumpet, drums, etc)?
Considering several Lifteen bands played for the Pope last time benedict 16 visited NYC including Mass I’d say yep. Besides the Bible does say that music will be played on trumpets and SIX string liar. A liar is a anchient predessor to the guitar.Would you be playing that instrument at the foot of Calvary at Christ’s sacrifice for mankind? We are taken back to that timeless moment during the consecration. Think about this when you decide on an instrument, that’s what I would be doing anyway.
I hope you mean “lyre”…Considering several Lifteen bands played for the Pope last time benedict 16 visited NYC including Mass I’d say yep. Besides the Bible does say that music will be played on trumpets and SIX string liar. A liar is a anchient predessor to the guitar.
No where in the Bible is organ mentioned nor chant. Singing with a guitar-like instrument is.
I agree.To be completely honest, as someone who is not very detached from his teenage years, I find the fact that the Church feels that they have to “stoop to our level,” so to speak, in order for us to go to mass and participate in the Church, is extremely insulting to my intelligence and that of others near my age. I think Lifeteen is awful for that very reason, that it inherently presumes that we are just young, dumb teenagers and we need a mass to fit that.
This is easliy explained in lifeteens motto “leading teens closer to Christ” Lifeteens goal is to serve the underchurched and unchurched. It’s format, discussions and teachings do assume that kids dont know the basics. For 95% of the kids thats true. They dont know basic bible stories, they dont know squat about Mass and they know zero moral teaching. I learned more in 1 year of lifeteen than in the 8years of post 1st communion CCD.You are making a straw-man. I am 17 and from what I have seen on the internet and heard from other posters, LifeTeen Masses seem to fit YoungTradCath’s criteria.
You say pander. Another poster said stoop to our level. St. Paul put it this way.* “I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.”* The Catholic Church’s tradition is use this criteria for inculturation and evangelization.Can you blame the teens when they’re being pandered to?
spelled liar in my bible with a footnote to the greek.I hope you mean “lyre”…
I think no proof will exist for such a tenet. While one can say that reverence is not relative, the fact that one person’s proof is not another’s indicates that there is at least some element of opinion. I have been to one LifeTeen Mass. I do not care for the music or the volume. However, the reverence of the kids involved was quite striking.. So I want proof a reverent Life Teen Mass exists.
So much truth. Same with Church music, they insist that younger generations like having somewhat corny hymns that are more like ‘Jesus is a divine version of Barney the Dinosaur’ rather than nice traditional solemn ones, that I think most people enjoy.I agree.
When middle-aged people try to create “cool” programs, what they create is corny, programs that middle-aged people find cool.
I know a lot of young people who detest that with a passion.
The way to attract young people is to continue to have reverent masses. Show them what it means to worship God. Teach them about the sacrifice of the mass.
Then have programs outside of mass that will keep them engaged in the parish.
Ummmm. While i agree that there are some corny hyms myself and most of my friends between 13 and 35 like upbeat music far more that solemn music. Especally solemen music in a language we dont understand.So much truth. Same with Church music, they insist that younger generations like having somewhat corny hymns that are more like ‘Jesus is a divine version of Barney the Dinosaur’ rather than nice traditional solemn ones, that I think most people enjoy.
Well, everyone has there preferences.Ummmm. While i agree that there are some corny hyms myself and most of my friends between 13 and 35 like upbeat music far more that solemn music. Especally solemen music in a language we dont understand.
To a point I would agree with you. It just seems that almost everyone here has their “pet” abuses which they do not define as an abuse but are quick to jump on anything they see as an abuse.Some people live on these forums to defend abuses in the Liturgy. If you read enough on these forums, it becomes obvious who these people are. Every time there is anything said to criticize abuses in the liturgy, these same people come out of the wood work to misrepresent things you say and make you prove everything you claim. Do not fall into their trap people. The best thing to do is ignore them and continue on with the discussion.
Fr David,Good point.
It’s like the Supreme Court said a few years back: “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.”
We also know irreverence when we see it.
The amazing thing about a “reverent Life Teen Mass” is that it’s a bit like the abominable snowman or flying saucers. Plenty of people claim to have seen them, but no one seems able to provide any evidence that they actually exist.
I hear the same thing all the time “The Life Teen Mass at MY parish is reverent.” But I have yet to see it with my own eyes, no matter how many times I do see a LT Mass.