Lifeteen

[SacredHeartFan]

Calm down. Re-read the post. I didn’t suggest that at all. I’m referring to the prayers of the Mass, not the validity of the Sacrifice.

So you are saying that your prayers are greater than others prayers??? Now you sound like the pharisees!!! Just be thankful that these teens are going to mass and getting something out of it!

 

[Dauphin]

So you are saying that your prayers are greater than others prayers??? Now you sound like the pharisees!!! Just be thankful that these teens are going to mass and getting something out of it!

I’m saying that some prayers are more humble and more fully expound the doctrine of the Church. I’m not sure what this has to do with the Pharisees. I’m hardly suggesting a legalistic adherence to the Old Law.

This is off topic, anyway.

 

[benedictgal]

Many teens get more out of a lifeteen that a non lifeteen one. I don’t think many of them go there because they are bribed into it. I go to both a normal mass and, if I have time, a lifeteen mass. If a teenager can go to a lifeteen mass that is fully orthodox (within liturgical teachings of the church) and get more out of it than a normal mass, then they should.

and by the way, please show me a church document that forbids drums, keyboards, the other instruments, and the songs that they sing at a lifeteen mass.

Here is your answer from Musicam Sacram:

1. Musical instruments can be very useful in sacred celebrations, whether they accompany the singing or whether they are played as solo instruments.
   "The pipe organ is to be held in high esteem in the Latin Church, since it is its traditional instrument, the sound of which can add a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lift up men’s minds to God and higher things.

"The use of other instruments may also be admitted in divine worship, given the decision and consent of the competent territorial authority, provided that the instruments are suitable for sacred use, or can be adapted to it, that they are in keeping with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful."43

1. In permitting and using musical instruments, the culture and traditions of individual peoples must be taken into account. However, those instruments which are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only, are to be altogether prohibited from every liturgical celebration and from popular devotions.44

In other words, “drums, electric guitars, bass guitars, drums and synthesizers,” anything you would normally here at a Hannah Montana, Jonas Brothers, Maroon 5, Rhianna, Madonna or U2 concert, isn’t allowable.

By the way, Musicam Sacram hasn’t been supplanted, to my knowledge.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I’m saying that some prayers are more humble and more fully expound the doctrine of the Church. I’m not sure what this has to do with the Pharisees. I’m hardly suggesting a legalistic adherence to the Old Law.

This is off topic, anyway.

when i say pharisees I mean you are too caught up in the rules to realize the love of God and the good coming out of this.

 

[Dauphin]

when i say pharisees I mean you are too caught up in the rules to realize the love of God and the good coming out of this.

Rules? I didn’t even mention rules, or imply that anyone was breaking them. I think you’re confused.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Rules? I didn’t even mention rules, or imply that anyone was breaking them. I think you’re confused.

…

 

[stringbeanduck]

Sorry I don’t have a document but like the quote from the poster a few posts above me said. We must keep it sacred. Sorry but drums can not make Mass holy. It makes me sad to here such music whilst receiving the Lord. For the record I love the OF. They are great and enjoyable. What I don’t like is seeing stuff from other denominations like music being brought into the Mass. Last time I checked Catholics never used to do all the mordern worship. It’s a real shame people are forcing the sarcred tradition of Mass to change so it can fit thier lives.

 

[PatrickJT914]

Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath. He also said That the
Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

I’ll leave this alone and let you guys figure out what was said in scripture by Jesus.

 

[benedictgal]

Sorry I don’t have a document but like the quote from the poster a few posts above me said. We must keep it sacred. Sorry but drums can not make Mass holy. It makes me sad to here such music whilst receiving the Lord. For the record I love the OF. They are great and enjoyable. What I don’t like is seeing stuff from other denominations like music being brought into the Mass. Last time I checked Catholics never used to do all the mordern worship. It’s a real shame people are forcing the sarcred tradition of Mass to change so it can fit thier lives.

The point that you made is exactly the same point that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist made. We need to put the sacred back into Sacred Music.

When he was Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI wrote a book called “The Spirit of the Liturgy”. In one section, he analyzes the issue of Sacred Music, he writes:

Then there are two developments in music itself that have their origins primarily in the West but that for a long time have affected the whole of mankind in the world culture that is being formed. Modern so-called “classical” music has maneuvered itself, with some exceptions, into an elitist ghetto, which only specialists may enter – and even they do so with what may sometimes be mixed feelings. The music of the masses has broken loose from this and treads a very different path.

On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal. “Rock”, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments.

Read this quote carefully, and then, take a hard and honest look (and listen) at the music used at these Youth Masses. This particular music, while great for a youth rally, doesn’t have a place in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. We need to remember that the Mass isn’t just about the warm bodies in the pews. Heaven, earth and purgatory unite, whether you are jammed into St. Peter’s Square or in a small chapel. The entire Church unites: the Church Triumphant, the Church Militant and the Church Suffering. It’s not just us.

The music needs to reflect the solemnity of what we are doing. Pope Benedict, with his comments and his writings, is trying to steer this ship back on course. He’s beginning with the liturgy because the Mass is the most important form of worship we can render to God.

[Edited]

The liturgy of Ancient Israel had its form and it was dictated directly from Yahweh to Moses. God was very direct and very detailed as to how He wanted to be worshipped. He covered everything from the type of vessels to be used to the type of color the vestments for the priests should be. When someone deviated from the norms, they were wiped out, as happened to Aaron’s sons. Thus, form and matter do mean a great deal to the Lord. They meant something to Him then and they meant something to Him now. This is something we need to hand down to the next generation. Unfortunately, the way LifeTeen is handling the Mass isn’t the way to pass on the liturgy.

 

[benedictgal]

Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath. He also said That the
Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

I’ll leave this alone and let you guys figure out what was said in scripture by Jesus.

Of course, Jesus also threw out the money changers and vendors from the Temple area because they were profaning His Father’s House. They were conducting business in sacred space that was reserved for the prostelytes and other Gentiles.

Jesus did not refer to worship when he made the above-referenced commentary. This statement was made because the Pharisees were objecting his actions during the Sabath (the context either involved healing the sick or plucking grain from the heads of wheat); it had nothing whatsoever to do with worship.

Remember, too, that Jesus said that he didn’t come to abolish the law, not one letter, nor even a part of the letter, of the law.

Furthermore, if you were to look at the matter and form of Ancient Israel’s worship, you will find some very familiar things in the form and matter of the worship of the Church, who is the New Israel.

Like I said, though, we need to be very carfeful as to how we hand the faith down to the next generation. While the LifeTeen Movement may have its merits, the manner in which they are handling the Mass is almost as bad as the Neocats.

 

[PatrickJT914]

Let’s see what a resource from Life Teen says about music. The resource I’ll be quoting from is:
“Plug-in to Life” Strategies and Resources for Catholic Youth Ministry from LIFE TEEN Father Dale Fushek, Phil Baniewicz, Tom Booth and the National Staff of the LIFE TEEN Program AVE MARIA PRESS- Notre Dame, Indiana. 1998. FYI: If anybody interested the book has a Nihil Obstat: Reverend Paul Orel-Censor and a Imprimatur: The Most Reverend Thomas J. O’Brien-Bishop of Phoenix)

The Importance of Music- Music at Liturgy- Page 24.

A University of Notre Dame study revealed that there are two components of liturgy that people are most affected by: the homily and the music.

As good overall liturgy can nourish and foster faith, so,too with music.Good music can uplift faith. Poor music can weaken a person’s faith.

Good music at liturgy provides a “holy sound track” to the Mass. In the gathering, the music must draw the people into the worship experience. During the proclaim part of the Mass, the music itself proclaims God’s Word, especially in the responsorial psalm. During the break, themusic must help the participants focus on the central mystery of Christ’s presence in the breaking of the bread.At the sending time, music is crucial. An uplifting, livelysong serves as a “blast-off” to send teens forth.
What kind of music accomplishes these good things in a teen liturgy? **First,**the **music must be relevant to teens.Revelant music does not equate to the latest best-selling hit…“revelant”…good quality music that is appropriate for any liturgy and adapting it for use with teens.**instrumentation…atttractive to teens, like drums,electric bass, keyboard, and the electric guitar. The electric guitar is a symbol of the teen culture…Usually the appeal of a song for a teen has more to do with the arrangement of the song than the lyrics. **music must be exciting and life-filled…it can’t be stoic or boring…something with energy in it…hear a song…performed with joy, sincerity, and with them in mind.**Music at liturgy can and should be reverent and prayerful…without sacrificing passion and appeal. Remember, effective music that reaches teens does not always have to be fast and loud; rather it should work well within the flow of liturgy and fit well within each part of the Mass. The music must have a sense of prayer. Participation is the goal to keep in mind…kind of music chosen for liturgy…singable, scriptural, and simple.What makes good music? A well-written piece of music will most always include quality, rhythm, melody and harmony.

To be continued.

 

[ethelzguy]

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/wuerg/vomit-smiley-001.gif

Repugnant and uncalled for, but not the least bit surprising, considering the source.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Let’s see what a resource from Life Teen says about music. The resource I’ll be quoting from is:
“Plug-in to Life” Strategies and Resources for Catholic Youth Ministry from LIFE TEEN Father Dale Fushek, Phil Baniewicz, Tom Booth and the National Staff of the LIFE TEEN Program AVE MARIA PRESS- Notre Dame, Indiana. 1998. FYI: If anybody interested the book has a Nihil Obstat: Reverend Paul Orel-Censor and a Imprimatur: The Most Reverend Thomas J. O’Brien-Bishop of Phoenix)

The Importance of Music- Music at Liturgy- Page 24.

A University of Notre Dame study revealed that there are two components of liturgy that people are most affected by: the homily and the music.

As good overall liturgy can nourish and foster faith, so,too with music.Good music can uplift faith. Poor music can weaken a person’s faith.

Good music at liturgy provides a “holy sound track” to the Mass. In the gathering, the music must draw the people into the worship experience. During the proclaim part of the Mass, the music itself proclaims God’s Word, especially in the responsorial psalm. During the break, themusic must help the participants focus on the central mystery of Christ’s presence in the breaking of the bread.At the sending time, music is crucial. An uplifting, livelysong serves as a “blast-off” to send teens forth.
What kind of music accomplishes these good things in a teen liturgy? **First,**the **music must be relevant to teens.Revelant music does not equate to the latest best-selling hit…“revelant”…good quality music that is appropriate for any liturgy and adapting it for use with teens.**instrumentation…atttractive to teens, like drums,electric bass, keyboard, and the electric guitar. The electric guitar is a symbol of the teen culture…Usually the appeal of a song for a teen has more to do with the arrangement of the song than the lyrics. **music must be exciting and life-filled…it can’t be stoic or boring…something with energy in it…hear a song…performed with joy, sincerity, and with them in mind.**Music at liturgy can and should be reverent and prayerful…without sacrificing passion and appeal. Remember, effective music that reaches teens does not always have to be fast and loud; rather it should work well within the flow of liturgy and fit well within each part of the Mass. The music must have a sense of prayer. Participation is the goal to keep in mind…kind of music chosen for liturgy…singable, scriptural, and simple.What makes good music? A well-written piece of music will most always include quality, rhythm, melody and harmony.

To be continued.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[stringbeanduck]

As good overall liturgy can nourish and foster faith, so, too with music. Good music can uplift faith. Poor music can weaken a person’s faith.

What do the mean by poor music? God help them if they are referring to traditional hymms and chants. Also what do they mean by good music?.. ahhh, I see, quality, rhythm, melody and harmony. Hmm where can you already find all these? Traditional hymms; they are good music right? They certainly uplift my day and seeing that they were used for many a many years it must have uplifting their day.

An uplifting, livelysong serves as a “blast-off” to send teens forth.

They didn’t in a " “blast off” " for over 1900 years. What changed?

instrumentation…atttractive to teens, like drums,electric bass, keyboard, and the electric guitar.

They didn’t have all those instruments centuries ago and most teens turned out great. The loved and embraced the faith. We even had way more of them become priests.

The electric guitar is a symbol of the teen culture

It’s not the symbol of Mass nor should it be.

music must be exciting and life-filled…it can’t be stoic or boring…something with energy in it…hear a song…performed with joy, sincerity, and with them in mind

Boring and what exactly do they mean by boring? I’ve had teens tell me that the “old” music is boring which by the way means tradtional hymms. To say our Sacred liturgy is boring is to say Christ is boring.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

What do the mean by poor music? God help them if they are referring to traditional hymms and chants. Also what do they mean by good music?.. ahhh, I see, quality, rhythm, melody and harmony. Hmm where can you already find all these? Traditional hymms; they are good music right? They certainly uplift my day and seeing that they were used for many a many years it must have uplifting their day.

To the avarage teen that music is boring. To the religious teen it is not.

They didn’t have all those instruments centuries ago and most teens turned out great. The loved and embraced the faith. We even had way more of them become priests.

That’s because their parents sent them off to bording seminary at 14.

It’s not the symbol of Mass nor should it be.

No it’s not and it won’t be.

Boring and what exactly do they mean by boring? I’ve had teens tell me that the “old” music is boring which by the way means tradtional hymms. To say our Sacred liturgy is boring is to say Christ is boring

Christ is not the music. And yes that music can get pretty boring.

 

[japhy]

Does the LifeTeen approach require contemporary Christian rock music to be played during Mass, either in its statutes or in its practicality? In other words, can there be a Mass in the Extraordinary Form which is simultaneously a LifeTeen Mass? Can there be a Mass in the Ordinary Form, with some Latin, some chant, ad orientem, etc., that is simultaneously a LifeTeen Mass? Or does LifeTeen require a different atmosphere during the Mass?

 

[BSHoop96]

Hi Dauphin,

You know what I think of your disgusting lttle smilie. Which by the way is uncalled for, disrespectful, crude, rude and un-necessary. :nope: :tsktsk: :bigyikes:

Please if you wish to respond,don’t use those kind of responses. Thank you

Good heavens…I guess I better not put a smilie to indicate how I feel.

I don’t think there should be special Masses for teens. It’s not an entertainment. I think it does separate the young from the old. Now something separate in addition to Sunday Mass I think would be fine. And I attend an NO Mass in case anyway thinks I am one of the “strict” EF persons.

 

[benedictgal]

The first red flag is that the document quoted has roots at Notre Dame, a school not necessarily known as the bastion of the faith of late. Second, it contains some very erroneous notions regarding music.

First,the music must be relevant to teens.Revelant music does not equate to the latest best-selling hit…“revelant”…good quality music that is appropriate for any liturgy and adapting it for use with teens.instrumentation…atttractive to teens, like drums,electric bass, keyboard, and the electric guitar. The electric guitar is a symbol of the teen culture…Usually the appeal of a song for a teen has more to do with the arrangement of the song than the lyrics. music must be exciting and life-filled…it can’t be stoic or boring…something with energy in it…hear a song…performed with joy, sincerity, and with them in mind

It seems very apparent that these folks have never read Musicam Sacram, the Consituttion on Sacred Music, let alone what WYD founder Pope John Paul II wrote about music where he notes that:

1. In continuity with the teachings of St Pius X and the Second Vatican Council, it is necessary first of all to emphasize that music destined for sacred rites must have holiness as its reference point: indeed, “sacred music increases in holiness to the degree that it is intimately linked with liturgical action”[11]. For this very reason, “not all without distinction that is outside the temple (profanum) is fit to cross its threshold”, my venerable Predecessor Paul VI wisely said, commenting on a Decree of the Council of Trent[12]. And he explained that “if music - instrumental and vocal - does not possess at the same time the sense of prayer, dignity and beauty, it precludes the entry into the sphere of the sacred and the religious”[13]. Today, moreover, the meaning of the category “sacred music” has been broadened to include repertoires that cannot be part of the celebration without violating the spirit and norms of the Liturgy itself.

St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations

Hymns like the Attende Domine, O Come, O Come Emmanuel, O Sun of Justice and Let All Mortal Fleshk Keep Silence aren’t stale, dull nor boring. In fact, in simple, easy to sing notes and words, they contain treasures of the Faith that are easy to understand. “Our God is an Awesome God” is just about noise, as is “Lord, I Lift Your Name On High” and “Shine, Jesus, Shine.” It seems like the adults who have made this stiuff up are the same ones who were probably swaying at Woodstuck. It may have worked then, but, it has no place in the liturgy.

 

[japhy]

Good music at liturgy provides a “holy sound track” to the Mass. In the gathering, the music must draw the people into the worship experience. During the proclaim part of the Mass, the music itself proclaims God’s Word, especially in the responsorial psalm. During the break, the music must help the participants focus on the central mystery of Christ’s presence in the breaking of the bread. At the sending time, music is crucial. An uplifting, lively song serves as a “blast-off” to send teens forth.

What is “the break”? I don’t know that part of Mass.

What kind of music accomplishes these good things in a teen liturgy? First, the music must be relevant to teens. Revelant music does not equate to the latest best-selling hit…

And yet, why does it seem like the latest CCM is the music of choice?

“revelant”… good quality music that is appropriate for any liturgy and adapting it for use with teens. instrumentation… attractive to teens, like drums, electric bass, keyboard, and the electric guitar. The electric guitar is a symbol of the teen culture…

In the same generic way that an electric guitar is a symbol of teen culture, a bong is, or a condom is. Is an electric guitar necessarily a positive (or liturgically appropriate) symbol? Also, certain “good quality music that is appropriate for any liturgy” cannot be “adapt[ed] … for use with teens” by means of drums, bass, etc.

Usually the appeal of a song for a teen has more to do with the arrangement of the song than the lyrics. music must be exciting and life-filled… it can’t be stoic or boring… something with energy in it… hear a song… performed with joy, sincerity, and with them in mind.

What are examples of “stoic or boring” music? What necessarily is “energy”? Is that sort of “energy” really desired during Lent? Is a hymn like Attende, Domine simply too stoic and boring, and not energetic enough, for teens during Lent? Is a traditional setting of the Kyrie just not “exciting” enough?

And what, exactly, is meant by “performing [the music] with them in mind”?

Music at liturgy can and should be reverent and prayerful… without sacrificing passion and appeal. Remember, effective music that reaches teens does not always have to be fast and loud; rather it should work well within the flow of liturgy and fit well within each part of the Mass. The music must have a sense of prayer. Participation is the goal to keep in mind… kind of music chosen for liturgy… singable, scriptural, and simple. What makes good music? A well-written piece of music will most always include quality, rhythm, melody and harmony.

Is this goal of participation done to the exclusion of what the Church teaches about the role of the choir at Mass? Must everything be sung by the congregation? Or, is something not sung by the congregation an example of not participating?

 

[b_justb]

When DW and I were house shopping about 3 years ago we were out late on a Sunday. So, we stopping in for evening Mass in the town we were in. It was their LifeTeen Mass. It was so amazing we made sure to go again the following week just to see if it was a fluke. Amazing, again. We chose our house in order to be part of that Church.

It was one of the most reverent Mass’ I had ever been to. The music was soft and contemplative. They sang the Agnus Dei in Latin. At the end of Mass, there was adoration for about 20 minutes. Not a single young soul moved or stirred or made a sound. They were all in prayer, some on their faces. I was astonished.

Last week we had a young man accepted into Seminary. This is the 4th one since I started attending this parish about 3 years ago. I think our LifeTeen program is pretty good. So, I am a fan.