"Lift up your heart" in Mass Liturgy

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The wife and I drive the 80 miles to an EF Mass each Sunday. Its only a low Mass for now so we have the Leonine prayers at the end of Mass. We use the prayers issued by the FSSP. Although they are not exactly what I learned they are close enough so that it is easy to re-learn. Here again, the issue of translation rears its ugly head. :eek:

We just deal with it. 🤷
 
Here again, the issue of translation rears its ugly head.
We just deal with it.
Certainly not faulting the FSSP for it, but you could say that. Considering that “Sursum corda/Habemus et Dominum” is virtually untranslatable into English literally, there’s a lot to deal with right there. And what first year Latin student would translate that into “Lift up your hearts/We have lifted them up to the Lord.”? They used to burn some of those English translators at the stake for such translations.
 
You are wrong Aramis. Perhaps you have never seen a Roman altar missal according to the 1960 book. Pick up the Missale Romanum and you will find no rubrics pertaining to what the faithful must do during the Mass. Rubrics are not recommendations, they are instructions for the priest in the offering of the sacrifice. There are no rubrics in the EF missale for the deacon at a Mass, with the exception of the administration of Holy Orders. General instructions are not rubrics. Rubrics pertain only to the priest at Mass, not the servers nor anyone else. I wouldn’t know if it were different for the Novus Ordo Missae. Rubrics are not the red print in the Missal used by the faithful.
They are in the section of general instructions, as are the postural directives for the servers, the deacon, the subdeacon. Some of the Altar missals also note when the people are to stand, sit, or kneel within the text; all approved include the deacon’s instructions.

Note that many altar missals do not include the GIRM; the approved typical edition does.
 
Some people do. I find these unusual gestures extremely distracting, I get annoyed which then causes my mind to wander from my focusing on God. If I sit near someone that is doing this, I wind up closing my eyes during most of the Mass so I do not get distracted. The problem with closing my eyes is that I have ADHD and an auditory processing problem so I need to follow along in the missal to get the most understanding from the Mass. If I decide to leave my eyes open so I can read along, I find I leave Mass with feelings of anger. My daughter also has similar issues and also gets distracted by these people, but she whispers in my ear to ask why they are doing it which causes a further distraction because I then have to discipline her to stop whispering (she is generally a very good child in Mass.)

At our church we also say the St. Michael prayer at the end of Mass. The choir director always announces that it is on the back cover of the hymnal. There are so many people that refuse to use this version and say their own version that at one part of the prayer I don’t even know what I am saying. It all just sonds like a jumbled mess with everyone saying something different.

I get so stressed out some days that I can’t wait for Mass to end and I leave feeling the need to cry. I wish everyone would just do what they are supposed to do, it would make Mass much easier for people like me and my daughter.
Sounds like a good opportunity to offer your sufferings to God. I don’t say this flippantly. As a mother of 5 young children, I haven’t been able to completely focus on the Divine Liturgy/Mass in years. I would much prefer a Mass in which I don’t have to take a child out to the bathroom, moderate children talking, continuously remind my 10 year old daughter to keep her body oriented toward the front, etc. I’m sure you would prefer a Mass in which I didn’t have to do that sort of thing, too. 🙂 The reality is that life is full of distractions, and those among us who are more easily distracted have got to learn to deal with them. With your ADHD, you have likely struggled with this your whole life, more than most. I can understand why you want your time in Mass to be a refuge from the world, but perhaps ADHD and the consequent stress and frustration at mass is your cross to bear. Some people are gifted with the ability to completely tune things out. My husband, God bless him, is one of them. He can be sitting, deep in prayer and completely focused on God, while the children chatter and do handstands around him. :mad: I get so angry with him because of this sometimes; mostly it is because it leaves me all alone to deal with the kids, but I’m also jealous that he gets to pray and I don’t. He doesn’t get this cross, but he has others.

Will you join my prayer that, rather than focus our frustration and anger at others’ behavior, we can pray for the grace to have fortitude and perseverance in carrying our own cross.
 
Sounds like a good opportunity to offer your sufferings to God. I don’t say this flippantly. As a mother of 5 young children, I haven’t been able to completely focus on the Divine Liturgy/Mass in years. I would much prefer a Mass in which I don’t have to take a child out to the bathroom, moderate children talking, continuously remind my 10 year old daughter to keep her body oriented toward the front, etc. I’m sure you would prefer a Mass in which I didn’t have to do that sort of thing, too. 🙂 The reality is that life is full of distractions, and those among us who are more easily distracted have got to learn to deal with them. With your ADHD, you have likely struggled with this your whole life, more than most. I can understand why you want your time in Mass to be a refuge from the world, but perhaps ADHD and the consequent stress and frustration at mass is your cross to bear. Some people are gifted with the ability to completely tune things out. My husband, God bless him, is one of them. He can be sitting, deep in prayer and completely focused on God, while the children chatter and do handstands around him. :mad: I get so angry with him because of this sometimes; mostly it is because it leaves me all alone to deal with the kids, but I’m also jealous that he gets to pray and I don’t. He doesn’t get this cross, but he has others.

Will you join my prayer that, rather than focus our frustration and anger at others’ behavior, we can pray for the grace to have fortitude and perseverance in carrying our own cross.
 
Sounds like a good opportunity to offer your sufferings to God. I don’t say this flippantly. As a mother of 5 young children, I haven’t been able to completely focus on the Divine Liturgy/Mass in years. I would much prefer a Mass in which I don’t have to take a child out to the bathroom, moderate children talking, continuously remind my 10 year old daughter to keep her body oriented toward the front, etc. I’m sure you would prefer a Mass in which I didn’t have to do that sort of thing, too. 🙂 The reality is that life is full of distractions, and those among us who are more easily distracted have got to learn to deal with them. With your ADHD, you have likely struggled with this your whole life, more than most. I can understand why you want your time in Mass to be a refuge from the world, but perhaps ADHD and the consequent stress and frustration at mass is your cross to bear. Some people are gifted with the ability to completely tune things out. My husband, God bless him, is one of them. He can be sitting, deep in prayer and completely focused on God, while the children chatter and do handstands around him. :mad: I get so angry with him because of this sometimes; mostly it is because it leaves me all alone to deal with the kids, but I’m also jealous that he gets to pray and I don’t. He doesn’t get this cross, but he has others.

Will you join my prayer that, rather than focus our frustration and anger at others’ behavior, we can pray for the grace to have fortitude and perseverance in carrying our own cross.
I never heard that explanation for “lift up your heart”. A preparatory moment when we can release our personal concerns or sufferings in the Mass. When we free our “heart” we are better prepared for communion.
 
The Latin, however, is not “sursum corda” in Lamentations. “Sursum corda” is literally “Upwards hearts” and is translated that way in the Polish “W górę serca.” I think the Anglophones got this one wrong. There is no “lift” or “our” in the Latin.

That’s not to say Lamentations is wrong in the translation. There is a “Levemus corda nostra” (Let us lift our hearts) there but it is not “sursum corda” which must come from somewhere else.
The French translation is no more accurate:*
Élevons notre cœur.* (First person plural imperative “Let us raise our heart.”)
Nous le tournons vers le Seigneur. (We turn it toward the Lord.)
 
The French translation is no more accurate:*
Élevons notre cœur.* (First person plural imperative “Let us raise our heart.”)
Nous le tournons vers le Seigneur. (We turn it toward the Lord.)
Thanks for that. As is the Spanish first-person plural “Levantemos el corazon/Lo tenemos levantado hacia el Senor.” (basically the same thing as the French.) Seems to me the English was used in these cases as a basis for the translation, not Latin. I thought they were going to fix that, though I have to admit “Sursum corda/Habemus ad Dominum” is hard to translate literally in some languages and make grammatical sense.
I never heard that explanation for “lift up your heart”. A preparatory moment when we can release our personal concerns or sufferings in the Mass. When we free our “heart” we are better prepared for communion.
In the Polish and Latin the sense is the direction of the heart, not the physical removal of it.

.
 
Thanks for that. As is the Spanish first-person plural “Levantemos el corazon/Lo tenemos levantado hacia el Senor.” (basically the same thing as the French.) Seems to me the English was used in these cases as a basis for the translation, not Latin. I thought they were going to fix that, though I have to admit “Sursum corda/Habemus ad Dominum” is hard to translate literally in some languages and make grammatical sense.

In the Polish and Latin the sense is the direction of the heart, not the physical removal of it.

.
Sursum corda is a Latin translation of the Greek. Cor in Latin means the physical organ but Kardia in Greek means mind, character, intention. The Syriac Orthodox based on the St. James Anaphora translate kardia as thoughts, minds, and hearts. see Wiki Sursum corda.
 
Sursum corda is a Latin translation of the Greek. Cor in Latin means the physical organ but Kardia in Greek means mind, character, intention. The Syriac Orthodox based on the St. James Anaphora translate kardia as thoughts, minds, and hearts. see Wiki Sursum corda.
The classical (Ciceronian?) meaning of “cor” is similar, as it’s the “heart as the seat of the feelings” or “heart as the seat of thought, the mind, judgement.” Either way, Greek or Latin, a lot is lost in the translation into English.
 
The Syriac Orthodox based on the St. James Anaphora translate kardia as thoughts, minds, and hearts. see Wiki Sursum corda.
Depending on which anaphora, the wording is completely different. In Anaphorae Syriacae for the Anaphora of St. Cyril of Jerusalem, the Latin translation of the Syriac is “…cogitationes et mentes nostrae,” just as an example of difference. I have the Anaphora of St. James here as well but I don’t have time to flip through it - the Syriac Orthodox, though, have a habit of adding things because it “sounds nice,” and then their sources differ from all the other Syriac redactions. This is not mere conjecture but I know an SO bishops who have made “hamburger anaphoras” of their favorite parts of anaphoras.

But I’m glad God has granted me the growing ability of not paying attention to other people at liturgy. It’s for the best of everyone :p.
 
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