Lifting of hands during worship

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tommy999
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I was under the impression the congregation should make no gestures reserved to the celebrant…there are a few in our parish who do the hand raises and waving at various points, mostly during the faster paced hymns. I’ve seen it in baptist services anf feel it’s detracting from the catholic style of worship.
 
friardchips said:
🙂 As another poster as suggested, I don’t think there is such a thing as a Catholic Charismatic Parish and so no Charismatic Holy Mass. Because we go to church for one reason, to receive the Sacraments and to attend Holy Mass. There are get-togethers for this area of Church interest. Mass could not get any more miraculous than it already is!
Click to expand...
My parish is VERY Charismatic. They most definitely exist.

And there is a lot of clapping and lifting of hands. Especially at 12:30 Mass which is a charismatic Mass.

Overall it doesn’t bother me one way or the other. I’ve even seen a lady bust out her phone in the adoration chapel and play Christian music and everybody start singing and clapping in there. Now that I did have a problem with as adoration is supposed to be in silence.
 
Thanks, (name removed by moderator) and Lenten Ashes. I had a feeling there might be a few such parishes out there, although it sounds like they are not numerous.

I agree that lots of noise does not appear to be conducive to the reflective and prayerful nature of what I perceive ‘Adoration’ to be.
 
We have 4 Masses on Sunday, 2 of which are Charismatic.

And a healing Mass at the end of the month, and of course that is Charismatic.

And Charismatic prayer meetings like every week.
 
Tommy999 said:
Thanks, (name removed by moderator) and Lenten Ashes. I had a feeling there might be a few such parishes out there, although it sounds like they are not numerous.

I agree that lots of noise does not appear to be conducive to the reflective and prayerful nature of what I perceive ‘Adoration’ to be.
Click to expand...
One of the Protestant churches i attended was a mega Church you have likely seen on TV. And every Sunday service, after everyone got done singing, people( or person) would scream out something in charismatic tongue. Personally, I did not care for this because it was never translated as the scriptures call for. But yet it went on for years and probably still happens now.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
We have 4 Masses on Sunday, 2 of which are Charismatic.

And a healing Mass at the end of the month, and of course that is Charismatic.

And Charismatic prayer meetings like every week.
Click to expand...
Got it. Thanks for clarifying, everyone.
 
Other. It is not a liturgically approved stance for the congregation. It is even disallowed for the Deacon to do so during the Our Father.
 
pianistclare said:
Other.

It’s not an approved thing, and it bugs me when people hijack the liturgy because something “feels right”.
Making liturgy in one’s own image.
No bueno.
And I’m no rad trad. I just think that we should behave ourselves.
Rant over.

Hi Tommy! Good to see you! Hope you’ll make it over to the new format! God bless you!
Click to expand...
👍
 
Tommy999 said:
I agree that lots of noise does not appear to be conducive to the reflective and prayerful nature of what I perceive ‘Adoration’ to be.
Click to expand...
While it seems that it is the case then, there are still rules that apply. It is not an anything goes-style celebration at Mass. Mass is still to reserve the proper decorum appropriate at Holy Mass…

Abbreviated:

ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur327.htm
*
‘It must be noted that the Brazilian bishops have a generally positive view of the Charismatic Renewal, and a significant number participate in charismatic Masses. The renewal is considered as being especially attuned and appealing to a wide swath of Brazilian society and is credited as helping to stem the hemorrhaging of Catholics toward Pentecostal sects.’*…

*“In the celebration of Holy Mass the words of the institution must not be stressed in an inadequate fashion. Nor must the Eucharistic Prayer be interrupted by moments of praise for Christ’s Eucharistic presence by means of applause, cheers, processions, hymns of Eucharistic praise or any other manifestations that exalt in this way the Real Presence and end up emptying out the various dimensions of the Eucharistic celebration.”

In No. 42 the bishops indicate that music and gestures should be appropriate to the moment of the celebration and follow the liturgical norms. A clear distinction should be made between liturgical hymns and other religious songs that are reserved to prayer meetings. Hymns should preferably be chosen from an official repertoire of liturgical songs.

Finally, the bishops say that Charismatic Renewal meetings should not be scheduled to coincide with regular Masses and other gatherings of the whole ecclesial community.*
 
Out of different Catholic parishes I’ve attended, there have been a handful where some people raised their hands while singing. But the majority of parishes, no.
 
friardchips said:
I voted: disruptive and distracting, and attracts attention to oneself.

If I went to a church in which people did this during the service then I’d not do it, but then if I were in such a church, it would be a confusing time, because being a Catholic, i attend Catholic services only (and we don’t do this). Some people have their arms stretched out lower down but are in the minority. It is a bit off-putting but I don’t let it affect me.

Raising arms places a lot of emphasis on one’s body position rather than simple humble gesture of submission and worship to God: standing and kneeling.

Interesting the question, as to whether, in places where they raise their hands like that, do they also kneel?

All that being the case, in churches other than the Catholic Church, Christians do not celebrate Mass with the True Presence of the Eucharist and therefore it is a different scenario completely. It is okay to praise God however you wish but Holy Mass is a different level altogether.

I don’t think any religious order is in favour of raising arms at Holy Mass.
Click to expand...
In our Diocese, we have been instructed by the Bishop to raise our hands during the Our Father…this has been the practice here for many years.
 
Pentecostal here, and it’s normal part of worship and prayer for us. It’s as natural as breathing. We find it in Scripture. For the early Christians and even Jews and pagans in the ancient Mediterranean world, it was a standard prayer posture. Like I said, it’s like breathing to us. You come into God’s presence “lifting holy hands” as 1 Timothy 2:8 says.
exnihilo said:
I’ve never been very comfortable with that. When I was a Protestant the churches I went to were very traditional and lifting hands would have been out of place. I’d say it makes me feel like I’m at a Dead show. So it makes sense that this is more commonly associated with a particular style or music. For me getting lost in the music isn’t the highest form of worship.
Click to expand...
While lifting hands is today associated with contemporary Christian worship, evangelical Protestants were lifting hands in church before the advent of the new style of worship music. It’s also not really about “getting lost in the music.” In Scripture, it’s associated with prayer, worship and blessing God (Psalm 63:4).
friardchips said:
Interesting the question, as to whether, in places where they raise their hands like that, do they also kneel?
Click to expand...
In Pentecostal churches you will find people kneeling at the altar or in their pews for prayer, and sometimes people will spontaneously prostrate themselves on the ground.
 
This kind of thing comes from these backwoods primitive denominations. It makes my skin crawl. I am sure they would feel uncomfortable with what I like. This kind of thing is in the same basket as talking in tongues. I really don’t mean to offend anyone, and I am sorry if I have but I feel strongly about it. Being from the south, I am much more aware of this kind of thing then people elsewhere are.

I’m a city boy. :DThat’s rural stuff. That’s not me. Not ever! I love driving through the country side, but I don’t stop!:o

[But I still love my rural friends!;)]

PS:

I once had a job that took me out to some of these small Georgia towns. Once this lady said to me, “You live in Atlanta? I couldn’t stand that. I never go there unless I absolutely have too.” I assured her we felt the very same way!
 
Today I ended up at a saint’s Shrine in a major city for first Friday Mass. The shrine had a very racially and ethnically diverse bunch of people at the Mass, a number of whom I suspect were Catholics from outside the USA who were on vacation and made a stop at the shrine.

The variety of hand positions during the Our Father was pretty amazing. There were people with their hands out and raised a little, one guy with his hands raised above his shoulders, several people with their hands upraised and cupped in front of their chest, and a few of us old-timey diehards who just fold our hands. Actually I think I saw at least two different ways people were holding folded hands too.

My guess is that every diocese or area has its own gesture that people use, as some of these hand positions I have never seen in the USA but like I said I’m pretty sure many of these people were international tourists.

It doesn’t bother me where others hold their hands, I only noticed in this case because the diversity of positions was about as broad as the diversity of races and ethnicities, and it was interesting to see.
 
I am sure you are right. But there are some rules for gestures. For instance in my diocese the bishop has a document detailing how Mass should be celebrated. One statement says the congregation should not make the sign of the cross after the general absolution. I doubt most people in the diocese have read the document. I don’t know if this would be considered a rule or a request.
 
ltwin said:
Pentecostal here, and it’s normal part of worship and prayer for us. It’s as natural as breathing. We find it in Scripture. For the early Christians and even Jews and pagans in the ancient Mediterranean world, it was a standard prayer posture. Like I said, it’s like breathing to us. You come into God’s presence “lifting holy hands” as 1 Timothy 2:8 says.

While lifting hands is today associated with contemporary Christian worship, evangelical Protestants were lifting hands in church before the advent of the new style of worship music. It’s also not really about “getting lost in the music.” In Scripture, it’s associated with prayer, worship and blessing God (Psalm 63:4).
Click to expand...
Lifting up holy hands may mean something other than raising your hands how I envision people today. Could it mean the orans position?
 
As well as EWTN stating that some things are suitably reverent and some aren’t, in terms of this subject (Holy Mass), Scripture tends to point to prayer as something gentle:

*'Matthew 6:5 -

"And when you pray, do not imitate the hypocrites; they love to say their prayers standing up in the synagogues and at the street corners for people to see them. I tell you solemnly, they have had their reward. “But when you pray, go to your private room and, when you have shut the door, pray to your Father who is in that secret place, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you.”*

*'Matthew 6:7 -

“In your prayers do not babble like the pagans do, for they think that by using many words they will make themselves heard. Do not be like them; your Father knows what you need before you ask Him…”*.

So, from this, I would put forward that if we are to behave like this in private, how much more ought we to conduct ourselves appropriately, when together as a community, at Holy Mass, where resides The True Presence in the Eucharist. Nothing should distract from this Miracle.

Again, what I have stated here is not any different to that of the EWTN post #35, in which Bishops stated that some things are suitable at Mass, and some not.

Here is a document from the CCC, which will serve as a good reminder for people, as to the holiness of exactly what is taking place at Mass (the whole page is worth reading):

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm

As far as the Charismatic Renewal itself goes, here is an official document that speaks about it:

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2015/july/documents/papa-francesco_20150703_movimento-rinnovamento-spirito.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top