Lifting of hands during worship

[ltwin]

Lifting up holy hands may mean something other than raising your hands how I envision people today. Could it mean the orans position?

Well, considering that the orans posture is nothing but praying with hands extended, I’m not sure what the difference is between what people did in antiquity and what people do now except for the fact that secular Westerners probably have in their minds connections to contemporary rock concerts.

I mean one can quibble about what arms configuration is “correct” for it to be the orans posture, but as far as I’m concerned life is too short to worry about whether my arms are situated "just right’ for prayer or praise. I just do what feels natural.

 

[Peter_J]

Today I ended up at a saint’s Shrine in a major city for first Friday Mass. The shrine had a very racially and ethnically diverse bunch of people at the Mass, a number of whom I suspect were Catholics from outside the USA who were on vacation and made a stop at the shrine.

The variety of hand positions during the Our Father was pretty amazing. There were people with their hands out and raised a little, one guy with his hands raised above his shoulders, several people with their hands upraised and cupped in front of their chest, and a few of us old-timey diehards who just fold our hands. Actually I think I saw at least two different ways people were holding folded hands too.

My guess is that every diocese or area has its own gesture that people use, as some of these hand positions I have never seen in the USA but like I said I’m pretty sure many of these people were international tourists.

It doesn’t bother me where others hold their hands, I only noticed in this case because the diversity of positions was about as broad as the diversity of races and ethnicities, and it was interesting to see.

Yes that’s interesting.

I remember times where some in a congregation were holding their hands up or out in one way, and some in another way, but that was during a song not the Our Father.

 

[friardchips]

If this website is not in line with the Vatican then I apologise in advance, but it might well be, and the reason I am putting something forward from this site is because it speaks of the exact topic many here are arguing over:

catholic365.com/article/5408/the-faithful-are-not-to-use-the-orans-posture-during-the-our-father.html

It begins:

'A discussion that is common in Catholic parishes between the more orthodox members of the parish and the more “progressive” members* is whether or not the faithful should use the Orans Posture during the Our Father**. When such a question comes up, the obvious solution is to go to the rubrics…’*

The article continues…

'Unfortunately, in this case, the General Instruction on the Roman Missal (GIRM) is relatively silent on the topic. Because of the GIRM’s silence, many people have taken this to mean that the faithful may do whatever they want. However, this is not the case…

*In the document, Instruction On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priests, put out by the Vatican on August 15, 1997, we read,…

“In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant.** It is a grave abuse for any member of the non-ordained faithful to “quasi preside” at the Mass while leaving only that minimal participation to the priest which is necessary to secure validity” (ICP Practical Provisions 6 §2)."’***

Might be worth reading the rest of that article.

 

[friardchips]

…from the same article, I will just include this part too, as sometimes people don’t read fom links provided:

‘On September 3, 1958 the Sacred Congregation for Rites issued a document titled De musica sacra et sacra liturgia (Instruction on Sacred Music and Sacred Liturgy). This document stated, “Since the Pater Noster is a fitting, and ancient prayer of preparation for Communion, the entire congregation may recite this prayer in unison with the priest in low Masses; the Amen at the end is to be said by all” (DM Prayers and Hymns § 32).’

'It was at this time that the faithful were given permission to pray the Our Father with the priest. However, the faithful maintained the same posture as before - standing, with their hands folded in prayer. Prior to this Instruction, the priest prayed the Our Father on behalf of the faithful. The Orans Posture is representative of praying on behalf of others.'

I like what is written here:

'American journalist Hunter S. Thompson was dead on when he said, “Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.” We are talking about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass here. The Eucharist, “the source and summit of the Christian Life” (LG 11) is consecrated here. Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords makes Himself present during the Mass.* It is of the utmost importance that we treat the Mass with the respect it deserves. This is not the time nor the place to get creative and inject one’s own style and preferences.’***

So, if we take this:

’It is a grave abuse for any member of the non-ordained faithful to “quasi preside” at the Mass while leaving only that minimal participation to the priest which is necessary to secure validity" (ICP Practical Provisions 6 §2)."'

…and put it with this:

The Orans Posture is representative of praying on behalf of others.'

…well, it suggests that the priest is the priest and the laity are the laity, and this kind of stands to reason, doesn’t it.

I would take this to mean that the laity are praying the Our Father with the Church while the priest is praying on behalf of the flock, present.

This means that the priest is to use the Orans position while the laity are to pray normally.

As I said, I take no notice if people stretch their arms out, in that position, or even more extravagantly, up in the air (actually, I would not think that is appropriate), because I am there at Mass for one reason: God.

 

[drac16]

Where I got to church, it isn’t encouraged, but it’s tolerated. During Easter worship, a guy next to me lifted up his hands while we sang hymns. It didn’t bother me. It’s to each his own; I don’t do it, but I feel that God can lead people into doing it.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I don’t mind.
I’ve had priests ask that we all raise our hands.
I’ve had priests ask that we all hold hands.

And I’ve visited non-Catholic churches like Hillsong and Planet Shakers where almost everybody raises their hands spontaneously.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I know we have been over this before and I have seen the same information regarding the orans posture for Our Father posted before. I personally do not use the orans posture because it makes me feel uncomfortable as I always saw it as (a) a priestly gesture only and (b) appropriate for the priest praying on behalf of the group or transmitting somehow our prayers to God or God’s grace to the group, but not appropriate or comfortable for me as an individual praying. I don’t care if others do it but I prefer to fold my hands as I was taught and have been doing for half a century.

However, I did notice this recent article printed in CatholicPhilly.com where a priest is saying USCCB has declared there is no set rule in USA as to how the faithful hold their hands during the Our Father. I further note that Philly is Archbishop Chaput’s jurisdiction and if there was anything amiss with what this article says, Archbishop Chaput is the type who would be issuing a correction to it pronto. I frequently attend Masses in the Philadelphia area because the main office of my employer is located nearby, and virtually everyone there at every OF Mass uses orans position for the Our Father. I am often one of a tiny handful of people in the church not doing it.

catholicphilly.com/2016/12/think-tank/catholic-spirituality/how-should-you-hold-your-hands-at-the-our-father/

Edited to add, here is the direct statement from USCCB on their website.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/posture-during-the-eucharistic-prayer-and-our-father.cfm

 

[Tommy999]

Thanks to all who voted and commented. The reason I started this thread in the first place was because I had mixed emotions about this topic, so your comments were enlightening to me. Thanks again for participating. :tiphat:

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless all of you today and always.

 

[brian_custer]

there is one (person) in my church who moves hands

every time the priest does

if that is not distracting; i don’t know what is

maybe i should try not to pay attention

or maybe i need a new parish

 

[friardchips]

Thanks to all who voted and commented. The reason I started this thread in the first place was because I had mixed emotions about this topic, so your comments were enlightening to me. Thanks again for participating. :tiphat:

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless all of you today and always.

The site I linked to, does in one area, mention things to do with a certain ‘visitation’ site a little too favourably for comfort, so be warned.

 

[Crusaderbear]

there is one (person) in my church who moves hands
every time the priest does
if that is not distracting; i don’t know what is
maybe i should try not to pay attention
or maybe i need a new parish

Nahhh, Just a new seat where they are no longer line of sight!

 

[Vonsalza]

there is one (person) in my church who moves hands

every time the priest does

if that is not distracting; i don’t know what is

maybe i should try not to pay attention

or maybe i need a new parish

I’ve never been wild about putting up the “Jesus Antennae”, but if you’re in a parish were something like that would make you consider parish-swapping then you probably need to get more involved in your parish.

It ain’t a place you go to, people. It’s a place you’re part of.

 

[Peter_J]

It ain’t a place you go to, people. It’s a place you’re part of.

I’m just waiting for someone to respond with something like “Go to church for God, not for anything else!” with three or four emojis.

 

[Eliazer]

Hello,
Just curious what your faith tradition’s position is on lifting of one’s hands during worship service, especially during singing and prayer.

Is it allowed or not, frowned upon or encouraged, or treated with ambivalence? How do you feel about it personally?

When I was attending an Assembly of God congregation for a number of years, it was fairly commonplace and seemed to be accepted, although not everyone did it.

At my more conservative Methodist Church where I currently attend, it is rare for someone to lift their hands during the service, although it is a little more common at the contemporary service where the average age of worshipper is younger and where modern praise song music is played.

At the traditional service, where the average person is older and the music is more traditional hymn-singing, I don’t see people lifting their hands much, if ever.

Orthodox and Catholic worship vs protestants are different.
Orthodox and Catholics traditionally we never lift up our hands while holding others. This is actually a pentecostal thing, somehow some members of the Church do it but it was never proper, it was not in the apostolic times.
We had different ways to pray crossing oneself ( handsvfrom shoulder to shoulder)is for thanks giving.
Holding your own hands(not anyone else’s) is to ask.
And joining hands by facing a palm against another of your hands it is worship.

There is a forth One I believe but I need to review it in the cathechism one more time. (The other three I am very sure but I do not recall if there is a forth way