Limbo and Elijah

[Mordocai]

If Elijah and Enoch are in the garden, where’s the garden? Perhaps “heaven” and “heavens” was just referring to the limbo of the fathers?
To say that someone went to heaven before Christ eliminates the necessity of Christ’s death is inaccurate.
It proves God’s omnipotence, He has His reasons, that is enough.
Perhaps, like the Immaculate Conception, Christ’s redeeming merits were applied to Elijah and Enoch in advance?

But to say that 'if Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven before Christ came means that Christ didn’t have to die" just does not compute.
Christ didn’t have to do anything, but He does out of love. If He didn’t die, we wouldn’t have the Eucharist! (Although if God wanted to have given it to us some other way, He could have.)

Mordo

 

[Matt16_18]

Mordocai:

If Elijah and Enoch are in the garden, where’s the garden?

The garden of Eden is in its own realm, between earth and Heaven. Genesis 3:23 says that Adam and Eve were “sent him forth from the garden of Eden” - it does not say that the garden of Eden was destroyed by their willful disobedience.

Perhaps “heaven” and “heavens” was just referring to the limbo of the fathers?

No, the limbo of the Fathers cannot be in heaven because Jesus descended the dead, and he ascended into Heaven. scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a5p1.htm]**“HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN” **

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c2a6.htm]**“HE ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN AND IS SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER” **

Perhaps, like the Immaculate Conception, Christ’s redeeming merits were applied to Elijah and Enoch in advance?

Elijah and Enoch could also be mortal men living in the garden of Eden due to the infinite merits of the Cross. The Fathers of the Church taught that Enoch and Elijah will return to earth as the two witnesses of Revelation 11:3 where they will be martyred. I believe that their views carry more weight than Catholics that speculate to the contrary.

 

[twf]

I have always assumed (ever since I was first presented with the theory) that Elijah and Enoch were assumed bodily into the Third Heaven, and avoided the LImbo of the Fathers. But Mordocai makes a very good point. If two men were glorified before Christ, does that not rob Christ of the glory of being the first man to enter heaven and take his seat at the right-hand of the Father? It makes more sense, perhaps, to imagine that all follow in Christ’s footsteps, and not the other way around.

What’s the Eastern Tradition on this matter? Fr. Ambrose or anyone?

 

[Matt16_18]

twf:

If two men were glorified before Christ, does that not rob Christ of the glory of being the first man to enter heaven and take his seat at the right-hand of the Father? It makes more sense, perhaps, to imagine that all follow in Christ’s footsteps, and not the other way around.

Christ the King was the first to enter Heaven with his glorified body, since he is the firstborn of the new creation. The Queen Mother is the second person to enter heaven with a glorified body. The princes and princesses will enter Heaven with their glorified bodies where they will be received by the King and Queen.