If I were a parent I would make sure my children were baptized so they would be able to receive the infusion of grace which comes from baptism. Failure to baptize a child falls on the parent’s head, not the child’s head. If I were a parent I would baptize my child because it would be a personal sin against me if I didn’t.
It didn’t have to be ‘dogma’ to be “in”. For years the church allowed people to believe in it.
Dear Christianley:
And, in what way would they be wrong to say those things?
So aborted babies can’t get into Heaven?
Simple, if aborted babies go to Heaven (full Beatific Vision), then it is better to be aborted, then to live and baptism becomes meaningless.
You don’t know that that’s correct. There might be something one gains by going through life that makes it preferable than being aborted. Life does have meaning.
Why? If Heaven is the ultimate hope and goal of every person, and if baptism is not required to attain Heaven, then why bother living at all? It is not a matter of what I do, or do not know, it is simple logic. If babies go straight to Heaven without being baptized, then baptism is not required and if baptism is not required, then the Church and the Bible are not infallible sources., etc…
I think the reference to his Holiness as ‘possessing magic powers’ is most offencive. Why would he? Where in Church teaching does it say he has magic powers?
Maybe they should get rid of the Bible too eh! That has to be the greatest Catholic invention of them all.
How? Where?
That is a non-Catholic teaching. We believe that a person once converted, who then goes on to reject the Gospel and apostacises into their former ways, are putting themselves at risk of losing eternity. The Catholic Church is true to her Master as that is what He taught!
You have been reading the [Leonardo] Da Vinci Code.
Another invention. I am beginning to recognise from where you are coming. That arguement is one your sect likes to prosecute even though there is absolutely no substance in it. Try reading Enid Blyton.
In what context are you referring to infallibility? Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not infallible?
This is getting absolutely ridiculous. We have transcended Enid Blyton, this is worthy of Hansell and Grettal. Keep writing, there is a novel in there somewhere
I speculate that Catholics open their bibles more than you do
Ha
Ha Ha Ha Salvation is not a zero sum game where someone else’s salvation subtracts from my salvation. There are no doubt experiences in life that are valuable in and of themselves. In fact there may be varying degrees and kinds of salvation based on our life experiences. Perhaps we who have lived experience a quality of salvation which is higher than those who might not have lived beyond childhood. I’m not sure, but I don’t begrudge anyone’s salvation including those of aborted babies. I hope they are saved in God’s kingdom with the Beatific vision.
I agree, it is wrong to begrudge anyone for the salvation they receive. However, that is not at all the point. The point is: what is required to receive salvation? The Catholic Church has always and infallibly held that baptism is an absolute requirement of salvation. The Church has also always held that original sin is a stain that every soul is created with and through baptism we are washed clean of that original sin. Unborn babies not receiving baptism cannot be cleaned of OS, and are therefore not able to reach the Beatific Vision in Heaven witrhout it. Now, that does not mean they are destined to a life that is something like hell, for that is not just either. Rather, another stated, perhaps a place the Bible mentions as Paradise is where those souls will go, and in that place they will experience happiness through eternity, just not the fullness of happiness a soul in Heaven enjoys. That place can be called anything you want, Paradise, Limbo, etc…, but if unborn babies receive the fullness of the Beatific Vision in Heaven, then that means every soul that has ever lived has the exact same hope. Do not forget, a life conceived has the same value as a life born.
Not exactly an outright denial. Denial assumes certainty. The Church simply says it isn’t sure about the final destination of an unbaptized infant’s soul. That is all.
The Church does not claim to have sure knowledge about the final destination of anyone who has died except the Saints. At the same time it says we can entrust the souls of unbaptized chldren to God’s mercy. I’ll take that promise anytime.
If this is the case