Limited Atonement, is it Biblical?

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CHESTERTONRULES

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I say no:

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so **all will be made alive **in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to **justification and life for all. **Rom. 5:18

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for **the sins of the whole world.**1 John 2:1-2

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the **sin of the world!”**John 1:29
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I say no:

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so **all will be made alive **in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to **justification and life for all. **Rom. 5:18

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for **the sins of the whole world.**1 John 2:1-2

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the **sin of the world!”**John 1:29
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Is this question too difficult, or are the Calvinists on lunch break?
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I say no:

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so **all will be made alive **in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to **justification and life for all. **Rom. 5:18

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for **the sins of the whole world.**1 John 2:1-2

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the **sin of the world!”**John 1:29
Click to expand...
Still Waiting for a Calvinist to prove me wrong, or convert!👍
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I say no:

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so **all will be made alive **in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to **justification and life for all. **Rom. 5:18

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for **the sins of the whole world.**1 John 2:1-2

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the **sin of the world!”**John 1:29
Click to expand...
Still waiting, Calvinists.

No brave defenders of the faith?
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Still waiting, Calvinists.

No brave defenders of the faith?
Click to expand...
Everybody believes in a form of limited atonement or particular atonement unless you believe in universalism. Do you think all individuals will be saved from the wrath of God and enter Heaven? If you answer no, you believe in a form of limited atonement.
 
Reformed said:
Everybody believes in a form of limited atonement or particular atonement unless you believe in universalism. Do you think all individuals will be saved from the wrath of God and enter Heaven? If you answer no, you believe in a form of limited atonement.
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I believe the atonement is unlimited, but our response may prohibit our salvation.

The atonment is not limited as Calvinists claim.

Jesus died for all men.

Those who refuse him could have made a better decision. The price was paid for them as well.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I believe the atonement is unlimited, but our response may prohibit our salvation.

The atonment is not limited as Calvinists claim.

Jesus died for all men.

Those who refuse him could have made a better decision. The price was paid for them as well.
Click to expand...
The atonement is universal in one hand, but limited in another. Roman Catholicism does not teach that all mankind will be saved. Therefore, Rome too teaches both this universal and limited concept of atonement.
 
Reformed said:
The atonement is universal in one hand, but limited in another. Roman Catholicism does not teach that all mankind will be saved. Therefore, Rome too teaches both this universal and limited concept of atonement.
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The limitation comes from our refusal of God’s grace, not his decision to condemn some to hell by withholding atonement.

Do you see the difference?
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
The limitation comes from our refusal of God’s grace, not his decision to condemn some to hell by withholding atonement.

Do you see the difference?
Click to expand...
I would say that we all refuse the saving grace of God. We all resist the grace of God to our judgement. So, why are some enabled to believe and most do not? Check out 1 Cor 1 for the answer. There is a reason for the doctrine of election…to the glory of God and the humbling of the pride of men.
 
Reformed said:
I would say that we all refuse the saving grace of God. We all resist the grace of God to our judgement. So, why are some enabled to believe and most do not? Check out 1 Cor 1 for the answer. There is a reason for the doctrine of election…to the glory of God and the humbling of the pride of men.
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Jesus draws all men.

We then accept or refuse God’s grace.

God does not pick certain men through no fault of their own to condemn to eternal torment.
 
You’re talking semantics here.

What is meant by “all men”? Does this mean all men on planet Earth or does it mean all men who are children of God?

What about women? Are they excluded?

You may say that the author is talking about all men (and women) on planet Earth, but this is not 100% clear. Certainly it is not as unambiguous as that last part of John 6.

There’s also the Torah that presents God as being in complete control. This is not to say that God predestinated the events of the world, but He foresaw all things. He created all things including evil. He chose Israel, they did not choose Him. Jesus chose His apostles, they did not choose Him.

It was God who chose His prophets, and God who chose His people.

You can point to some verse that could be interpreted your way, or they could be interpreted another way. There are other verses that disagree with you without leaving as much wiggle room as the verses you have listed.

Actions speak louder than words. Look at the actions of God, and the actions of Christ.

Christ could have started teaching His message, and then waited to see who came to Him, but He didn’t do that. He went out and selected His apostles.
 
StashLazarus said:
You’re talking semantics here.

What is meant by “all men”? Does this mean all men on planet Earth or does it mean all men who are children of God?

What about women? Are they excluded?

You may say that the author is talking about all men (and women) on planet Earth, but this is not 100% clear. Certainly it is not as unambiguous as that last part of John 6.

There’s also the Torah that presents God as being in complete control. This is not to say that God predestinated the events of the world, but He foresaw all things. He created all things including evil. He chose Israel, they did not choose Him. Jesus chose His apostles, they did not choose Him.

It was God who chose His prophets, and God who chose His people.

You can point to some verse that could be interpreted your way, or they could be interpreted another way. There are other verses that disagree with you without leaving as much wiggle room as the verses you have listed.

Actions speak louder than words. Look at the actions of God, and the actions of Christ.

Christ could have started teaching His message, and then waited to see who came to Him, but He didn’t do that. He went out and selected His apostles.
Click to expand...
We are not apostles.

This is only semantics if you are attempting to change the crystal clear words of scripture.

Calvinists must ignore or change the meaning of words like:

the world
every man
all men
the whole world

Jesus died for the whole world, but some will refuse to accept him.

This is the fault of the individual, not God.
 
I don’t think you are really talking about limited atonement. Don’t even Calvinists believe that Christ’s death was enough to atone for the sins of all?

I think Calvinists teach that God in his sovereignty predestines some people to heaven and others to hell, not that Christ’s death was ineffective.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I’ve read it. (John 6)

Do you believe this?

1 Tim 2

3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
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Absoultely… God’s desire is different than His will. For instance, God desires that all men obey Him. God’s will is divine judgement for their disobedience against Him. Roman Catholicism teaches a form of limited atonement, does it not? I requested that you study John 6 and you said you did without a comment on it. Well, here’s a commentary of John chapter 6. I think you will find it interesting and biblical.

Was Jesus a Calvinist?

enjoyinggodministries.com/article/was-jesus-a-calvinist/
 
Claire_from_DE said:
I don’t think you are really talking about limited atonement. Don’t even Calvinists believe that Christ’s death was enough to atone for the sins of all?

I think Calvinists teach that God in his sovereignty predestines some people to heaven and others to hell, not that Christ’s death was ineffective.
Click to expand...
Very good point. The Bible speaks of some sinners are predestined to Heaven. The Bible never speaks of sinners being predestined to Hell. The person and work of Christ is sufficient enough to save all mankind and all fallen angels. The atonement is of inifinite value and powerful enough to redeem all fallen creatures…even fallen aliens that we may not even know that exsist. However, the atonement of Christ was not designed to save the fallen angels and ___? A better word for limited atonement is particular atonement. Predestination is a biblical doctrine to the glory of God.

Acts 4:28
to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Romans 8:30
And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5
he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
We are not apostles.

This is only semantics if you are attempting to change the crystal clear words of scripture.

Calvinists must ignore or change the meaning of words like:

the world
every man
all men
the whole world

Jesus died for the whole world, but some will refuse to accept him.

This is the fault of the individual, not God.
Click to expand...
The word all or the world has to be understood in context. Otherwise, you would be a universalist (everyone will be saved). It appears you qouted Romans 5 as a universalist application (post 1). Romans 5 needs to be understood in the light of 1 Cor 15. The word all is qualified in two groups of humanity.

1 Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
 
The Riddle

God imposed his wrath due unto, and Christ underwent the pains of hell for,
  1. either all the sins of all men,
  2. or all the sins of some men,
  3. or some sins of all men.
If the LAST, some sins of all men, then have all men some sins to answer for, and so shall no man be saved; for if God entered into judgment with us, though it were with all mankind for one sin, no flesh should be justified in his sight: “If the LORD should mark iniquities, who should stand?” [Ps. cxxx.2] We might all go to cast all that we have “to the moles and to the bats, to go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty.” [Isa. ii. 20, 21]

If the SECOND, that is it which we affirm, that Christ in their stead and room suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the world.

If the FIRST, why then, are not all freed from the punishment of all their sins? You will say, “Because of their unbelief; they will not believe.”

But this unbelief, is it a sin, or not?
If not, why should they be punished for it? If it be, then Christ underwent the punishment due to it, or not. If so, then why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which he died from partaking of the fruit of his death? If he did not, then did he not die for all their sins.

Let them choose which part they will.
An extract from John Owen’s – The Death Of Death In The Death Of Christ, Book I, Chapter III –
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Calvinists must ignore or change the meaning of words like:

the world
every man
all men
the whole world
Click to expand...
I just can’t help but noting the irony that this quote comes from someone who either

(a) Does not believe in the immaculate conception
(b) Or has changed the meaning of all (using his own standard of measure) in Romans 3:23 to exclude Mary.

Just observing the irony here.
 
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