Limits on confession

[Stylteralmaldo]

14er:

Any thoughts on this?

Well, the gospel says as follows:

John 20:23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.

I don’t think the priest is obligated to forgive sins in the confessional. I have heard before of others not being forgiven after going to confession. I won’t say whether the pastoral care given was good or not. I guess that’s between you and your confessor.

Here’s what the catechism says:

1464 Priests must encourage the faithful to come to the sacrament of Penance and must make themselves available to celebrate this sacrament each time Christians reasonably ask for it.

Perhaps the priest thought your request for confession was unreasonable?

 

[CuriousInIL]

find a priest you trust, stick with him for direction and confession, and do not seek third party advice, which can only harm rather than help you.

It is just so interesting to me that we just as often see that sentiment on here as we see the sentiment "Your priest was wrong, find another that can set you straight. How is one to tell which situation is present? Perhaps it deals with this?

you were properly counselled by your priest and spiritual director

But that just shifts the question to: “How do I know if I have been properly counseled?”

 

[whatevergirl]

It is just so interesting to me that we just as often see that sentiment on here as we see the sentiment "Your priest was wrong, find another that can set you straight. How is one to tell which situation is present? Perhaps it deals with this?
But that just shifts the question to: “How do I know if I have been properly counseled?”

I kind of thought that myself…although I understood the sentiment. When people are given advice from priests in the sexual department that go against Church teaching, we have a tendency to suggest the poster finds another priest to confess to.

To the OP: Maybe just try to schedule a time with him to discuss this, because clearly it bothered you, otherwise, you wouldn’t have asked our opinions. We are not experts–but hopefully, we were helpful to a degree. I’d be interested if you could update us again.

 

[Pious_Mat]

Pope Pius XII went to confession daily, and I doubt he abused it. Contrary to popular belief, JP2 didn’t go daily, but once a week. His confessions were generally a grand affair, however, since he often dragged visiting priests into the confessional, probably making them seem more frequent.

Did you tell him you had committed a mortal sin? If he knew that, maybe he would have answered differently.

 

[jmcrae]

It sounds to me like the priest exercised his right to retain the sin because he felt that the penitent was abusing the Sacrament of Penance, by committing a mortal sin less than 24 hours after his last good Confession.

A good Confession gives grace to resist sin, but instead of resisting sin, he resisted the grace that he had received from the Sacrament, and sinned again right away.

It seems to me that his Confessor is making him wait while in a state of mortal sin in order to impress upon him the gravity of this abuse of the grace that he was so freely given the previous day.

(That’s just my take on it.)

In any case, he is right to obey his Confessor.

 

[LilyM]

It sounds to me like the priest exercised his right to retain the sin because he felt that the penitent was abusing the Sacrament of Penance, by committing a mortal sin less than 24 hours after his last good Confession.

A good Confession gives grace to resist sin, but instead of resisting sin, he resisted the grace that he had received from the Sacrament, and sinned again right away.

It seems to me that his Confessor is making him wait while in a state of mortal sin in order to impress upon him the gravity of this abuse of the grace that he was so freely given the previous day.

(That’s just my take on it.)

In any case, he is right to obey his Confessor.

That sounds to me as ludicrous as a doctor making a patient wait while they’re bleeding to death, to ‘teach him a lesson’ about not misusing the knife with which he cut himself. First you deal with the life-threatening emergency (and make no mistake, mortal sin IS such an emergency), THEN teach your lesson in a way that doesn’t endanger physical or spiritual health - so absolution certainly shouldn’t be denied in most cases. Threatening refusal of absolution if the penitent does similar would probably teach the lesson just as well.

The only times a confessor should refuse absolution are

a) if there’s no genuine repentance (and of course you can sin mortally seven times a day, and yet be genuinely sorry each time and each time repent with a genuine resolve to sin no more, which is what is necessary for confession, so the penitent should always be given the benefit of the doubt) or

b) if the person is genuinely scrupulous - mistaking non-existent or venial sins for mortal ones. In which case the priest should make this crystal clear so the penitent isn’t still wrongly believing they’re in mortal sin. And should be encouraging them to take Communion, not discouraging it.

I’m not saying disobey your confessor, but certainly seek the earliest possible opportunity to discuss the reasons behind why he did what he did and don’t leave until you are clear in your understanding.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Hi, OP here.

Thanks for the replies. Just what I had expected, there is a variety of opinions here. To clarify a few things:

“I trust him with my soul.” That means I trust he will never give me bad advice. My soul is my own.

About not receiving the Eucharist at daily mass: I asked him about this, he didn’t tell me until I asked. Even then, he said that if I met the 3 conditions for mortal sin, it would be prudent not to receive.

Sacraments should not be “used.” Sorry, but that was my summation of what we talked about. “Abused” would be a better word.

I’m not questioning or monday morning QB’ing. I am totally obedient to what he tells me in all things because he is so faithful. I am just curious as to what others think.

This priest always makes as much time for me as I need with things, and I know he has my best interests in mind. When we were talking about this, I could hear Christ speaking through him, because he seemed to know me better than I know myself. I need this time to reflect on my sacramental life and the mercy of God. This has been one heck of a week, and it’s not over yet. Please pray for me.

I hope you are going to tell him you posted this here.

I am concerned that you did it and that you are ‘just curious’ about the feedback on the job your spiritual director is doing.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

We most certainly can and SHOULD worry about dying in the state of mortal sin. There is no greater worry in the world than that.

.

Then the OP should have thought of THAT long enough to avoid the mortal sin he committed.

If not the worry of developing a dose of scruples then one has to be worried of a flippant version of ‘oh well if I sin I can just go to confession and it is ok again’ .

 

[whatevergirl]

Then the OP should have thought of THAT long enough to avoid the mortal sin he committed.

If not the worry of developing a dose of scruples then one has to be worried of a flippant version of ‘oh well if I sin I can just go to confession and it is ok again’ .

We don’t know if that is the OP’s mindset at all…confession is there for us to confess our sins, period. Not to have a priest determine if I’m “worthy” of confession, that is not right. Again, unless the penitent is telling the priest that he/she is not willing to repent, then I can see it being a different situation. There could be a variety of things going on here:

1. the OP thought he commited another mortal sin and needed to go to confession again (not for a priest to judge – God forgives us over and over–and some people take longer to get past certain sins)
2. the OP thought he committed a venial sin, and perhaps was being too scrupulous

Either way…I don’t believe the clergy should be determining if our sins are worthy of confessing…

 

[jmcrae]

Either way…I don’t believe the clergy should be determining if our sins are worthy of confessing…

I don’t think that was the issue at all, since he did tell him not to receive Holy Communion until after making a good Confession on Saturday.

I think he is exercising his right to “retain the sin” for a short period of time, so that the OP can learn to exercise some self control.

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t think that was the issue at all, since he did tell him not to receive Holy Communion until after making a good Confession on Saturday.

I think he is exercising his right to “retain the sin” for a short period of time, so that the OP can learn to exercise some self control.

I see…you know, when you think about it…God is all merciful, and if the OP is genuinely heading for confession, and not of his own accord, is turned away…if he were to lose his life in the interim, (God forbid–just using this as an example of what someone in this thread was speaking about) then, I can’t imagine it would be the same as having mortal sin on our soul, and not having the willingness to confess it…

Ok…are we confused yet? haha

 

[Eilish_Maura]

We don’t know if that is the OP’s mindset at all…confession is there for us to confess our sins, period. Not to have a priest determine if I’m “worthy” of confession, that is not right. Again, unless the penitent is telling the priest that he/she is not willing to repent, then I can see it being a different situation. There could be a variety of things going on here:

1. the OP thought he commited another mortal sin and needed to go to confession again (not for a priest to judge – God forgives us over and over–and some people take longer to get past certain sins)
2. the OP thought he committed a venial sin, and perhaps was being too scrupulous

Either way…I don’t believe the clergy should be determining if our sins are worthy of confessing…

The OP told his director something, something we are not privy to, that generated this response.

We have no business 2nd guessing the director as we are getting what could be a very edited account of things.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I don’t think that was the issue at all, since he did tell him not to receive Holy Communion until after making a good Confession on Saturday.

I think he is exercising his right to “retain the sin” for a short period of time, so that the OP can learn to exercise some self control.

What seemed to be forgotten is this is the OP’s spiritual director who he has entered a very special and specific relationship with.

It is not like the OP turned up somewhere for confession and was sent out of the confessional/reconciliation room with a ‘come back another day’.

 

[whatevergirl]

The OP told his director something, something we are not privy to, that generated this response.

We have no business 2nd guessing the director as we are getting what could be a very edited account of things.

True–it is edited for here–we don’t know the whole thing.

 

[14er]

Hi, OP here.

If you go back and read MY posts, you should see that I am OK with this. If that is not clear, know this: I AM OK WITH THIS. In fact it has been a blessing. Sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to really see what you are doing. I realized that I may have been moving toward a presumptious attitude.

Of course this is an edited version, (we had a good long talk about it) but the important points are here in my posts. And I’m sure if I would have insisted he hear my confession, he would have. But me, being the obedient type that I am, respected his authority and didn’t fight him over this.

Also, I didn’t post this to gauge what kind of director he is based upon what you all have to say about it. I already know that. I just never heard of this kind of situation because I had never been in that situation before, nor had I ever heard of someone else being in that situation before. But I KNEW there would be a variety of opinions on this, and THAT is what I wanted to see.

What a blessed week it has been.

 

[childofmary1143]

Then the OP should have thought of THAT long enough to avoid the mortal sin he committed.

Well the OP is human like the rest of us and sins. Have you not ever committed mortal sin?

If not the worry of developing a dose of scruples then one has to be worried of a flippant version of ‘oh well if I sin I can just go to confession and it is ok again’ .

That is extremely judgmental of you to think you can read the OP’s mind and heart.

 

[whatevergirl]

Hi, OP here.

If you go back and read MY posts, you should see that I am OK with this. If that is not clear, know this: I AM OK WITH THIS. In fact it has been a blessing. Sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to really see what you are doing. I realized that I may have been moving toward a presumptious attitude.

Of course this is an edited version, (we had a good long talk about it) but the important points are here in my posts. And I’m sure if I would have insisted he hear my confession, he would have. But me, being the obedient type that I am, respected his authority and didn’t fight him over this.

Also, I didn’t post this to gauge what kind of director he is based upon what you all have to say about it. I already know that. I just never heard of this kind of situation because I had never been in that situation before, nor had I ever heard of someone else being in that situation before. But I KNEW there would be a variety of opinions on this, and THAT is what I wanted to see.

What a blessed week it has been.

I find it all very interesting, and appreciate you sharing it. I am glad that you’re ok with it. Why in your own eyes, do you feel he told you not to receive communion during the week?

 

[turtle18]

I had a very religious sister tell me that she would go to Confession everyday if she could. And she would proabably only be confessing venial sins.

Sins of presumption can be very serious. Maybe the priest was trying to help you get over your sin–if you had to miss daily Eucharist you might be more likely to give up your sin.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

That is extremely judgmental of you to think you can read the OP’s mind and heart.

Scruples is like a cancer of the soul - presumption is not much better. A good director would look out for such things in a directee.

 

[14er]

I dont know how to do these quotes properly, but…

Whatevergirl said:
“I find it all very interesting, and appreciate you sharing it. I am glad that you’re ok with it. Why in your own eyes, do you feel he told you not to receive communion during the week?”

Because I knew the sin was mortal, I knew I did not receive absolution, and I knew that in that state, one should not receive communion. So I asked him if I should not receive, just to be sure. He told me that if I met the 3 criteria for mortal sin (grave matter, full knowledge, full consent), I should not receive.

Turtle18 said:
“Sins of presumption can be very serious. Maybe the priest was trying to help you get over your sin–if you had to miss daily Eucharist you might be more likely to give up your sin.”"

That could very well be a part of it.