Line where people say “Enough?”?

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TepeyacTraveler said:
Do you think there is a time when common people say “Enough” I see there are Sheriffs here and there that won’t be following orders from their Governor’s regarding lockdowns.
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I think the vaccine has arrived just in the nick of time.

People who own small businesses are really hurting right now, and I can’t say I blame law enforcement who refuse to cite these business owners for staying open. It’s tough to tell someone who has no other way to make a living, “Hey, buddy, close your business, lay your loyal employees off, and go get in the welfare line.”

Here’s what I wish could happen–I wish all the small business owners and their employees could be hired to help with “clerical” and “manual labor” and “communication” jobs in the local hospitals. The short-staffing in hospitals is really scary, and I think that if people could be hired to take over some of these “non-medical” tasks, the regular workers could be utilized in areas like lab to do the simplest procedures like setting up cultures, filing results (paper), answering the phone (and directing the call to the appropriate person), unpacking boxes, etc.–the kind of jobs that seem overwhelming when you are trying to do work that directly affects the patients.
 
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Yes, ‘n’ how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, ‘n’ how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, ‘n’ how many deaths will it take ‘til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind
 
Why is dining outside in a plastic tent with space heaters any more safe then dining in an actual restaurant? You cannot have indoor dining unless it’s a plastic tent with indoor dining…makes perfect sense. :roll_eyes:
 
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Yes. The line is when what is requested becomes immoral. That is the Catholic standard of civil disobedience. Inconvenience, regardless of how great, is never a justification for refusing to submit to lawful authority. I know this is not what one wants to hear, but that is the Catholic moral standard.
 
pnewton said:
Yes. The line is when what is requested becomes immoral. That is the Catholic standard of civil disobedience. Inconvenience, regardless of how great, is never a justification for refusing to submit to lawful authority. I know this is not what one wants to hear, but that is the Catholic moral standard.
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But there is also ambiguity here. Am I showing more charity to stay home from my favorite restaurants, or to continue patronizing those restaurants so that the owners and employees can continue to earn a living and pay their bills?

Ideally, we should do “take out” from our favorite restaurants, but many restaurants are just not suited for this kind of dining. I do think that these places should try to think outside their box–perhaps come up with “the Special of the Day” everyday by selecting the Top Ordered items that they sell throughout the year and offering them as takeout meals.

But there’s practical aspects to that, too. How do the waitresses factor into “take out?” And really, how many people really do take out.

Interestingly, my brother does–he stops by his favorite restaurant almost everyday for a meal, and tips big.

And my daughter (the entertainment professional who loves to eat out) does the same, and she is tipping 50% these days to try to help out.

Anyway, I think that people’s motives for continuing to dine out (or inside) are not necessarily “civil disobedience”, but rather, helping their restaurant friends stay afloat, and that’s a good motive.
 
TepeyacTraveler said:
Do you think there is a time when common people say “Enough” I see there are Sheriffs here and there that won’t be following orders from their Governor’s regarding lockdowns.
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I’ve often wondered how the Black Death managed to kill off over half of Europe’s population, now I’ve begun to understand.
 
You should use an emoticon here: some might think you are serious.
 
Peeps said:
But there is also ambiguity here. Am I showing more charity to stay home from my favorite restaurants, or to continue patronizing those restaurants so that the owners and employees can continue to earn a living and pay their bills?
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That is ambiguity in what the law ought be, not on whether we should follow it. That was the sole scope of my answer.

There is a legitimate reason why some states are not so harsh in the lock downs, and arguments on both sides. Life is ultimately the most important issue, but is not the only one. Back during our lockdown, we doubled our takeout from the restaurants we normally patronize, knowing that it would be a struggle, and others had to eat out less, not more, for economic reasons.
Kaninchen said:
I’ve often wondered how the Black Death managed to kill off over half of Europe’s population, now I’ve begun to understand.
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There is a contrast that results in the same effect. Then, the lack of information prevented people from taking action. Today, it is the excess of information. One can find someone somewhere saying what they want to hear and engage in risky behavior.
 
The problem is that lockdowns don’t really work for the general population. All they do is delay or put off the spread until things open up again. We are seeing surges in spite of lock downs and mandatory mask wearing in my area. And mask wearing is enforced in my county, stores have security guards at their entrances.

We need to protect the at risk population such as the elderly and those with comorbidities.
 
Realistically, all that’s locked down are gyms and movie theaters. Everything else is open. People are encouraged to work from home, if possible.
 
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People talk about sacrifice and the ‘greatest generation’. They honor vets for their service.

But wearing a mask to conquer a pandemic is too much of a sacrifice?

The answer is blowin’ in the wind.
 
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tomarin said:
Realistically, all that’s locked down are gyms and movie theaters. Everything else is open. People are encouraged to work from home, if possible.
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In my county restaurants and bars are also closed.
 
tomarin said:
Huh. Ours are open but at limited capacity.
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Closed, but the County Executive was caught eating out the day the order was announced. The restaurant owner told him to “get the hell out.” It’s not in the news, but a friend of a friend told me. My son is in the restaurant business, small but very high end started by a young couple from New York. Luckily theirs was able to convert to groceries and take-out. But they had to lay off a lot of people.
 
I hadn’t heard this but totally believe it of that fine leader. Of course, our equally fine paper didn’t report it. Living in the Wild West county where we have “no” restrictions, I was out a bit today and even here, people were masked up.
 
The ramifications of the Thanksgiving Holidays are starting to take roost.

Infections are on exponential path. Deaths will not lag to far behind. Hospitals are at either max or near max capacity in the hardest hit areas.
 
Since the whole point of mitigation efforts was to delay infections as much as possible to prevent overwhelming of hospitals…which was pretty successful and to give time for the vaccine to be available.

In the near future, if the vaccinations can begin, every delay where a person then gets a vaccine, is a success story. Even more so if that person doesn’t get severe complications and/or die. We will never know their names nor the numbers of them…just that they are out there and the mitigation and vaccine allowed them to avoid an infection.
 
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pnewton said:
There is a contrast that results in the same effect. Then, the lack of information prevented people from taking action. Today, it is the excess of information. One can find someone somewhere saying what they want to hear and engage in risky behavior.
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Oh, there was a lot of curative information around from ‘lockdowns’ (where ‘quarantine’ comes from), to ‘social distancing’ (fleeing from towns to villages was popular), to eating arsenic or mercury, to crowds murdering Jews, to flagellant processions.

I expect the fans of mass violence to drive away the pestilence and penitents who believed they could be saved by anointing themselves with the fresh blood of the flagellants found lockdowns extremely annoying.
 
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