Link to the Rubrics? Is this a licit text of the Gloria?

  • Thread starter Thread starter neophyte
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

neophyte

Guest
The GIRM says that the text of the Gloria cannot be modified by the priest. I suppose that there might be more than one approved text, but yesterday at Mass the text of the Gloria was nothing I’ve ever heard. I’m wondering if anyone can tell me if this is one of the approved texts.

Also, I can’t find a link to the approved texts. They’d be in the Rubrics, correct? Anyone know of a reliable link? I’d like to have some familiarity with the various licit texts.

Anyway, here’s the text that was used. I want to make clear that I know that its theology is perfectly orthodox; my question is about whether or not it was licit to use in the mass. I won’t comment on the musical setting other than to say it was horrid:
Cantor:
We praise you, we bless you, we adore you, we glorify you, we give you thanks for your great glory, Lord God, Heavenly King, O God, Almighty Father.

Refrain:
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will.

Cantor:
Lord Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son, Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father, You take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.

All:
Have mercy on us.

Cantor:
You take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer.

All:
Receive our prayer.

Cantor:
You are seated at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us.

All:
Have mercy on us.

Refrain

Cantor:
For You alone are the Holy One, You alone are the Lord, You alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, in the Glory of God the Father.

Refrain.

​
Thanks.
 
And so it begins… :rolleyes:

Is this licit? Yes it is.
It is part of the new translation.

You can find it here

Edit: many dioceses in the US are allowing parishes to start using some of the new parts especially when they have new musical settings- i.e. the Gloria, the Sanctus, before the 1st Sunday of Advent when all parishes in the US must start using the new translation.
 
neophyte said:
Also, I can’t find a link to the approved texts.
Click to expand...
The new translation of the Gloria can be found here: fromwordstoprayers.com/2011/07/gloria.html
neophyte said:
Cantor: We praise you, we bless you, we adore you, we glorify you, we give you thanks for your great glory, Lord God, Heavenly King, O God, Almighty Father.

Refrain: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will.
Click to expand...
Did the Gloria begin with “We praise you…”, or did it begin with “Glory to God…”? It would be very unusual (and I would say illicit) to begin the Gloria anywhere than at its beginning!

That said, the current translation of the Gloria has been used licitly in verse-refrain arrangements. I don’t think it’s great, because the Gloria isn’t a hymn with verses and a refrain, and it does injustice to the form of the Gloria to force it into a verse-refrain format. I would imagine the new translation of the Gloria can be used licitly in a verse-refrain format, but I wouldn’t be a fan of it.

P.S. I don’t know who said it, but I figured I’d share this witticism about Catholic hymns: “When I see ‘Refrain’ in a hymn, I do.”
 
what we have here is 3 issues:


  1. *]the new text of the gloria
    *]the “responsorial” gloria (it uses a refrain)
    *]the horrid music used

    1: this is the new gloria that is being used in some areas of the country now. it is being transitioned into all masses as we speak. It will be required starting the first Sunday of advent. it is being changed because the new text is more faithful to the latin original of the text, whereas the old text is not always translating what the latin says word for word. in some areas, it’s quite easy to see. For example, which one of the two english versions look like a better translation of the latin? (hint: you probably don’t even need to know latin to answer this)

    Latin:
    Laudamus te.
    benedicimus te.
    adoramus te.
    glorificamus te.
    gratias agimus tibi,
    propter magnam gloriam tuam.

    New English Translation:
    We praise you,
    we bless you,
    we adore you,
    we glorify you,
    we give you thanks for your great glory,

    Old English Translation:
    Lord God, heavenly King,
    Almighty God and Father,
    we worship you, we give you thanks,
    we praise you for your glory.

    2: The resposorial style gloria is not licit to use. I’m sorry to put it so bluntly, but it simply isnt allowed, despite what all the publishers say.

    3: it goes without saying. I’m sorry you had to suffer through another modernized setting.
 
For example, which one of the two english versions look like a better translation of the latin?
Click to expand...
It’s a more literal translation, not necessarily a better translation. 😉

We’ve already exhausted the “bless God” argument.
 
FatHead said:
2: The resposorial style gloria is not licit to use. I’m sorry to put it so bluntly, but it simply isnt allowed, despite what all the publishers say.
Click to expand...
When the GIRM says “It is intoned by the Priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or** by the people alternately with the choir,** or by the choir alone” it leads to misinterpretation.
 
Phemie said:
When the GIRM says “It is intoned by the Priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or** by the people alternately with the choir,** or by the choir alone” it leads to misinterpretation.
Click to expand...
so? theres no easy way to mis-interpret it. it does not say: the choir sings the gloria, while the people keep jumping back to the begining. it is clearly talking about the traditional way of two scholas singing to each other.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
And so it begins… :rolleyes:

Is this licit? Yes it is.
It is part of the new translation.

You can find it here

Edit: many dioceses in the US are allowing parishes to start using some of the new parts especially when they have new musical settings- i.e. the Gloria, the Sanctus, before the 1st Sunday of Advent when all parishes in the US must start using the new translation.
Click to expand...
:doh2:

Silly me… well, if it’s the dumbest question I have this week I guess I’ll be ahead of the game.
Thanks.
 
Phemie said:
When the GIRM says “It is intoned by the Priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or** by the people alternately with the choir,** or by the choir alone” it leads to misinterpretation.
Click to expand...
Just to provide the reference, to help people find this.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“53. The Gloria is a very ancient and venerable hymn in which the Church, gathered together in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb. The text of this hymn may not be replaced by any other text. The Gloria is intoned by the priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or by the people alternately with the choir, or by the choir alone. If not sung, it is to be recited either by all together or by two parts of the congregation responding one to the other.”
 
[edited] i’ve disagreed with the usccb before. so has rome, so i’m in good company.

[edited]
 
FatHead said:
[edited] i’ve disagreed with the usccb before. so has rome, so i’m in good company.

[edited]
Click to expand...
theres many problems with the usccb. in the recent past or even present, they’ve supported gay rights, abortion, so called “social justice,” and even DIRECT DISOBIDIENCE to the roman missal.

i dont trust them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top