Links to Human Genetics

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I’m familiar with the CAFs tract Adam Eve and “the e word” and it says we can believe we developed from previous forms, under Gods guidance but insists on the special creation of the soul.

So if we developed from previous forms, how did that happen? Did some other form of sub-human give birth to a human named Adam or what? Those on this side, put your thinking caps on and help me, please.

The Church allows us to believe this side of the argument, so…how?
 
edwest2 said:
This may be scientific thinking but it is not sound in terms of Divine Revelation. It appears that the science is indeed in conflict with Divinely revealed truth. The Catechism does not have it both ways.

Ed
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So, Ed, you’re a smart guy. If you were on my side of the issue, where would you say Adam came from?
 
Faith1960 said:
So, Ed, you’re a smart guy. If you were on my side of the issue, where would you say Adam came from?
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He was a special creation, just like Eve. Both were given preternatural gifts that we lack, and have lacked since The Fall.

"They possessed the preternatural gifts of:
Code: 
impassibility (freedom from pain)
immortality (freedom from death)
integrity (freedom from concupiscence, or disordered
desires)
infused knowledge (freedom from ignorance in matters
essential for happiness)"
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
He was a special creation, just like Eve. Both were given preternatural gifts that we lack, and have lacked since The Fall.

"They possessed the preternatural gifts of:
Code: 
impassibility (freedom from pain)
immortality (freedom from death)
integrity (freedom from concupiscence, or disordered
desires)
infused knowledge (freedom from ignorance in matters
essential for happiness)"
Ed
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No. I mean if you didn’t believe that, how would you explain how Adam got here. He was born from…what? A semi human and Adam turned out human or what?
 
Faith1960 said:
No. I mean if you didn’t believe that, how would you explain how Adam got here. He was born from…what? A semi human and Adam turned out human or what?
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How do you propose to have a conversation about this, without talking about the E word? Its like your fishing to get the topic banned. “how do you think we evolved?” “If you didn’t’ believe that how would you explain how they got here?” The problem is we DO believe that, why would we spend time on hypotheticals instead of just discussing the truth?
 
bmullins said:
How do you propose to have a conversation about this, without talking about the E word? Its like your fishing to get the topic banned. “how do you think we evolved?” “If you didn’t’ believe that how would you explain how they got here?” The problem is we DO believe that, why would we spend time on hypotheticals instead of just discussing the truth?
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I prefer to call it what CA calls it; we developed from previous forms. I don’t know how that happened, which is what I’m trying to find out.
 
To be clear, I’m not talking about the banned topic and am not encouraging anyone else to. I am trying to find out how Adam got here in light of the fact we are allowed to believe he came from another biological form but aren’t allowe to believe in polygenism.
 
Anyone else have any idea? After reading what Pope Francis said last Ocober (no I don’t have the link right now but you can Google it) I believe ;we evolved as a group and weren’t considered human until God gave two of us souls. Those two were Adam and Eve.

Google Edward Feser, Monkey in you soul?
 
The idea that the BMH differ from the AMH only by a couple of alleles (particular versions of a gene) is, I think, untenable. What if an individual human person out of the 7 billion on earth, does not have that allele? Are we to suppose that they are not really human? Or if we gave that allele to a great ape, do you think that they would become human?

I think we need to believe, by faith, that God created Adam and Eve miraculously.
 
Ron_Conte said:
The idea that the BMH differ from the AMH only by a couple of alleles (particular versions of a gene) is, I think, untenable. What if an individual human person out of the 7 billion on earth, does not have that allele? Are we to suppose that they are not really human? Or if we gave that allele to a great ape, do you think that they would become human?

I think we need to believe, by faith, that God created Adam and Eve miraculously.
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As in fully adults? I don’t believe that.
 
Faith1960 said:
As in fully adults? I don’t believe that.
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If I am correct in understanding what you want to believe, I don’t think it works out in a purely natural way with the natural laws as we know them, or at least is extremely improbable. Think of all the supernatural power it took to make our world. How would it be less logical to think direct supernatural power could be used to form humans or the first life for that matter? Of course, we believe it is supernatural power either way, but for me, when I see biological complexity it is easy to imagine God intervened directly with His handiwork.

By the way, though it is commonly argued otherwise, Thomas Aquinas thought Adam came directly from the “slime of the earth” and Eve came from Adam’s rib. Please see Summa Theologica, Part I, Question 92, Article 4:
I answer that, As was said above (2, ad 2), the natural generation of every species is from some determinate matter. Now the matter whence man is naturally begotten is the human semen of man or woman. Wherefore from any other matter an individual of the human species cannot naturally be generated. Now God alone, the Author of nature, can produce an effect into existence outside the ordinary course of nature. Therefore God alone could produce either a man from the slime of the earth, or a woman from the rib of man.
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Reply to Objection 1. This argument is verified when an individual is begotten, by natural generation, from that which is like it in the same species.
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newadvent.org/summa/1092.htm#article4 .
 
womanatwell said:
If I am correct in understanding what you want to believe, I don’t think it works out in a purely natural way with the natural laws as we know them. Think of all the supernatural power it took to make our world. How would it be less logical to think supernatural power could be used to form humans or the first life for that matter?

By the way, though it is commonly argued otherwise, Thomas Aquinas thought Adam came directly from the “slime of the earth” and Eve came from Adam’s rib. Please see Part I, Question 92, Article 4:

I answer that, As was said above (2, ad 2), the natural generation of every species is from some determinate matter. Now the matter whence man is naturally begotten is the human semen of man or woman. Wherefore from any other matter an individual of the human species cannot naturally be generated. Now God alone, the Author of nature, can produce an effect into existence outside the ordinary course of nature. Therefore God alone could produce either a man from the slime of the earth, or a woman from the rib of man.

Reply to Objection 1. This argument is verified when an individual is begotten, by natural generation, from that which is like it in the same species.

newadvent.org/summa/1092.htm#article4 .
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It’s not that I don’t think God can form a fully developed human being. He certainly can. It’s the science that says otherwise, which brings me back to the beginning of this thread. Anyone have links for scientific information that shows Adam and Eve were the first two people on earth?
 
Faith1960 said:
It’s not that I don’t think God can form a fully developed human being. He certainly can. It’s the science that says otherwise, which brings me back to the beginning of this thread. Anyone have links for scientific information that shows Adam and Eve were the first two people on earth?
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:hug3: Faith 1960, I mean this in a way to simply think more clearly about the subject. It is not the *science *that is saying otherwise (about God forming a fully developed organism), it is many of the scientists. If you knew that the *science *said that Adam & Eve were the first two people on earth, you wouldn’t be looking for the information. This is what is confusing to this whole subject. The *science * is the proteins and the embryology and the genetics and the vast complexity of life. But the *scientists *keep telling us these could have formed and worked together by chance.

:o I don’t want to get in trouble for overstating my case, but I would urge you to look at some proteins and see the variety and complexity. My blog pages for proteins would be at this link:
womanatwell.blogspot.com/search/label/Proteins .

A database for 3D representations and descriptions of proteins is RCSB-PDB (Research Collaboratory for Structural Bioinformatics - Protein Data Bank) which is a research group but they also describe molecules to laypersons:
pdb101.rcsb.org/motm/motm-by-title .
 
womanatwell said:
:hug3: Faith 1960, I mean this in a way to simply think more clearly about the subject. It is not the *science *that is saying otherwise (about God forming a fully developed organism), it is many of the scientists. If you knew that the *science *said that Adam & Eve were the first two people on earth, you wouldn’t be looking for the information. This is what is confusing to this whole subject. The *science * is the proteins and the embryology and the genetics and the vast complexity of life. But the *scientists *keep telling us these could have formed and worked together by chance.

:o I don’t want to get in trouble for overstating my case, but I would urge you to look at some proteins and see the variety and complexity. My blog pages for proteins would be at this link:
womanatwell.blogspot.com/search/label/Proteins .

A database for 3D representations and descriptions of proteins is RCSB-PDB (Research Collaboratory for Structural Bioinformatics - Protein Data Bank) which is a research group but they also describe molecules to laypersons:
pdb101.rcsb.org/motm/motm-by-title .
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Thanks for all the info but it’s waaaaaay over my head. :confused: I should’ve said that I want links that are simple enough to understand.
 
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